Firstflex TLR

[Chishs]

Well I'm taking the plunge into amateur photography. Got myself a Firstflex TLR off of ebay (it was cheap compared to some of the other TLRs, I also like the way the geared focus looked...I'm a sucker for things like that...). I mainly got it because I wanted something old looking and rugged enough to take camping with me. Now I haven't been able to find out a whole lot about this camera other than the taking lens is 80mm f3.5.

It has shutter stops from 3.5 - 22
It has shutter speeds of B, 1/10, 1/25, 1/50, 1/100 and 1/200 (probably not accurate anymore)

Now I'm wondering what film I should buy for it. I don't have a tripod (can't afford one currently. Probably make it myself when I have money) and most of the pictures I'm going to take are going to be at dusk or on hazy days. I don't plan on shooting any action or many people for that matter. I want to do both color and black & white. Also I'm always for supporting the underdog brand.

The whole aperture, shutter speed, film speed thing still confuses me. Also I don't have a light meter though I plan on investing in one.

[Nike]

Nice tool!

If I remember right, that cam is quite similar to the rolleiflex, isn't it? So you'll need 120 or 220 (not sure if 220 is still avialable) format rollfilms.
The question is, how much corn do you want to see in your photos - that goes exspecially for b/w.

Well, for dusk ans hazy days and no tripod you'll probably need at least 400 asa.

For color, maybe check out the Kodak Portra - it is avialable with both 400 and 800 asa (the 800 is better for weddings and portraits though) , the Fuji Superia x-tra 400...

For b/w there's a lot ... Illford Delta (little corn), Kodak Tri-X Pan 400TX (much corn), Fuji Neopan (little corn)...

Without a light meter, you can either experiment with a rather cheap film and take notes, read old photography books that often contain very detailed information about that. You can also experiment at home with two cameras to begin to get a feeling for what light situation you need which settings.

Enjoy your cam and please show us some reults!!

[Grumbledook]

welcome to the forum

first up, i've never heard of a firstflex TLR

quick run down for you:

photography is all about controlling the light, you do this with the aperture (size of the hole in the lens), the shutter speed (amount of time the light has to go through the hole) and the film speed/iso (the sensitivity of the film to light, the amount of light it takes to make a picture on the film)

The higher the film speed, the more grain is produced, so apart from artistic effect you generally use a lower speed.

The aperture controls the depth of field (the amount of the subject in focus). Shutter speed also controls blur/movement. So depending on what you want the image to look like, those two combinations, along with the "amount" of light will determine what film speed you require.

So if you want a large aperture (smaller hole) for landscape pictures so you get the scene in focus and not just a small part of it, and its dark (sun is setting) so you either need a longer shutter speed (which may blur if you are holding it by hand), so you then pick a higher speed iso film so you can use a faster shutter speed and the larger aperture.

As for a light metre, (having now looked up a firstflex) I am not sure if it has one built in. My 1978 olympus OM1 film camera does. Obviously if it does and its working you don't need to buy one. For the light metre, you set what film speed you are using and then you set the aperture you want to use and it will tell you what shutter speed you need for a "correct exposure". (or vicer versa if you want to use a set shutter speed, it will tell you what aperture you need to use)

Its going to be hard to take photos without knowing this and may cost you a fair bit in film. So you need to pick a film speed that will enable for the conditions, normally 200 is the most used afaik, so if you are going to be doing it around dusk with less light, it might be worth trying a 400 first off.

As for other things you should buy, if its dusky and hazy you may look at a circular polarizer, I would read up on them first though, as it will mean less light passes through.

Hope that helps ;]

[Chishs]

Yah the firstflex was apparently one of the many inexpensive tlr's from china during the 50's.

While I don't have the camera in front of me (it has a few more days in the mail to go...damn the USPS) I'm 90% sure it doesn't have a light meter.

Thanks for the explanations much easier to understand that what I was reading online.

[Nike]

Originally Posted by Grumbledook

The higher the film speed, the more grain is produced, so apart from artistic effect you generally use a lower speed.

In general I absolutely agree with you, but there also are huge differences between films with the same iso speed, depending on the technology involved at the production of the emulsion of the film. The core-shell crytsal technology films such as Ilford Delta or the T-Max (kodak, flat crytals) usually have much finer grain than others with a classic emulsion.

[Grumbledook]

fair point

I've only really used ilford black and white film

[Chishs]

So I did some more research on the Firstflex. From what I can gather it isn't really a rollie clone (although it could be argued all TLR's made in Japan at that time are rollie clones) but just a general purpose lower-mid range TLR.

I'm going to try to find film at a camera store (its a mom&pop store so it might not have it) thats around the corner from my house (didn't even know it was there. Also noticed that the name of the plaza is the same as my first name, Royce. Funny I've lived at this house for 15 years and never noticed). If not I'm gonna try amazon.com (the shipping for small quantities is good).

I'm going to try your film suggestions as soon as I have film and the camera. I do have a question about prints. Are there any standard sizes that are square? (I don't want to crop the photos unless they need to be)

EDIT:
Scratch amazon B&H is cheaper...though ups ground shipping does scare me a little...
Heres the film I'm ordering so I can get a good feel for the camera (tell me what you think)

Ilford Delta 400
Ilford Delta 100
Fuji 400H
Fuji Provia 400x
Fuji 160s
Fuji Velvia 100 (not 100f)

I plan on having the slides cross developed mainly because I think the unpredictable color shifts look cool and I'm not really going for image reproduction accuracy. I'm also going to record what the camera settings and light conditions were when I took the photos. Hope to find film/light combinations I like.

[Nike]

well, I can only tell cm sizes unfortunatley since that's what I'm used to - in the shops I frequent the standard print sizes for 6x6 are 10x10 cm, 13x13 cm, 15x15 cm, 20x20 cm, and 30x30 cm. You can usually also chose between different papers, that influence the prize as well.

Oh, and regarding the costs, on a 120 rollfilm you have space for only 12 negatives, when shooting 6x6.

When buying the film, make sure it has been stored well, it is not too old, and store it in a cool and dry environment yourself. Many photographers store films in fridges or iceboxes.

edit: didn't see you edited your post before.

Well, regarding the films I think good choice. All of them seem to be fine corn films. The velvia is perfect for landscape, but you need rather good light and have to be very exact with the exposure, because the saturation is quite high and when the exposure isn't exact the shadows tend to drown.
the fuji 400h is optimized for portraits, as is 160s. The proxia 400 is supposed to be a really good film for quite universal use, I've never tried it though, that's just what I've heard.

Now to cross. I don't know if it wouldn't be better to start off the canonical way to get a feeling for exposure and the films before starting of with cross. Cross is awesome and an endless experiment, but: you have more grain, sometimes pictures get unsharp, and you usually have to overexposure to come to usable results. How much depends on the film, because every film reacts different to uncorrect developement. That means, you already should have a good sense for exposure.
And since cross is always an a bit unpredictable experiment, it might be better for start, exspecially when you take notes about your process, to have them developed correctly to see where mistakes lie. There's plenty of time to experiment with cross when you know how to use your tools. But that's just a suggestion

[Chishs]

I'm gonna take what you said into consideration Nike. Though that is why I got a roll of color print film as well. The slide film is mainly for me to have fun screwing around with.

Also I got the camera today. All of the shutter stops work as do all of the shutter speeds (can't vouch for accuracy though). Lens' are in perfect condition. The only thing wrong is that the fake leather paper stuff on the sides is peeling off. There is also a button on the bottom left of the face with a bayoneted cover (you may call it something different). I can't figure out what it does. No hot shoe but I didn't think there was one when I bough it.

I do have some more questions though.

I read about polarizing filters and it seems worth it to get one. It also seems that since the camera doesn't have an internal light meter a linear one is better. Question is what filter would fit the lens? What do I need to know about the lens to find out?

Next question is where to find a cheap tripod for it. I've never shoped for a tripod before and my budget is well VERY limited but I want to have one for long exposures at night (while not heavy it weighs enough that keeping it steady for longer than a second is a pain). Any ideas?

[Nike]

Question what filter would fit the lens is a good question.
What reads on the lens?

I don't know if the rolleicord filters would fit on your camera, too - they might not. The rolleicord bayonett is size I. What size is yours?
You find some old ones for your cam on ebay or at photostores where they are selling second hand stuff.

I know this company is making good filters, and they do for all kind of cameras.
http://www.heliopan.de/Heliopan-Filters.pdf
There might be something similar in other countries, too.

And regarding cheap tripods I how someone else can help us both, unfortunatley my experience with cheap tripods was not so good.

[Chishs]

I was wondering do they make filters that just snap on?
I'm asking because there doesn't appear to be any kind of lens mounting system at all (i think it was too cheap of a camera at the time to worry about that).

In other news I found the cable release (I don't know how I missed it). Gonna buy one soon just because it will be useful once I get around to getting a tripod. I still don't know what the thing in the bottom right of the face is. The only thing I can think of is a flash-sync of some sort. If you go to: http://www.tlr-cameras.com/Japanese/...tflex%20I.html

Its that little red thing in the bottom right. No idea what it is and I want to know.

Film finally came in today. Currently I have it loaded with the Delta 400. Took some inside photos in bright and dim light, and 2 outside at night (aperture wide open at 3.5 and shutter speeds of 1/10 and 1/25). Don't know how the night ones will come. If not for the 2 street lights about 100' away it would have been pitch black.

[Nike]

I think you should just try email this guy and ask him about details

http://www.tlr-cameras.com/Contact.htm

Obviously he knows a lot about tlr cameras and all subtypes there have been.

Myself I have only used Rolleicord, and that's years ago, but you needed to know the filter-bayonett-size (I, II, III, IV) to attach the correct filters. They didn't just snap on.

For the little red thing my only idea was flash-sync or self-timer. But I'm only guessing, which is not much help. I think you should really try to email Barry Toogood or maybe also ask in a photostore that is selling and repairing old cameras - they might be familiar with that model, too.

[Chishs]

Originally Posted by Nike

I think you should just try email this guy and ask him about details

http://www.tlr-cameras.com/Contact.htm

Obviously he knows a lot about tlr cameras and all subtypes there have been.

Myself I have only used Rolleicord, and that's years ago, but you needed to know the filter-bayonett-size (I, II, III, IV) to attach the correct filters. They didn't just snap on.

For the little red thing my only idea was flash-sync or self-timer. But I'm only guessing, which is not much help. I think you should really try to email Barry Toogood or maybe also ask in a photostore that is selling and repairing old cameras - they might be familiar with that model, too.

Funny I emailed him right before you posted this.

I don't know if this is the right place to do it but I "took" a "picture" of the camera on a flatbed scanner. Funny it looks better scanned that in RL.