The Photo Challenge - Topic Suggestion \ Complaints \ OMGz about the poll

[jonton]

Yeah, I'm with samsite. Winning and maing your own topic for the enxt challenge is the only prize, and it keeps it going as people are different in the topics they choose.

I think this thread will help with the lack of creative topics, and besides, I think over the past months we have got rid of the more basic topics, and if anything its getting harder to think of a new topic. thus making it more creative and interesting.

[stine]

i like both ideas - the dsg shows that it works with one moderator setting up the topic, but i also like the "choose-topic-as-a-prize" idea. in the end i think we should stick with the winner choosing the topic.
besides, giving the pictures a title helped tremendously with the creativity, since you can go for less obvious meanings and choose more open topics. since we decided to do that, we had some of the best entries here, i think. i guess the lack of interest was mainly because we were all either really busy or gone on vacation, so i bet that'll become much better in the next few challanges... anyway, it's good to have given it a thought, thanks for the idea, gab! cheers,

stine

[Le Gab]

Originally Posted by samsite999

i think that would be a bad idear, what the point of the chalange if u dont win anything?
one of the best rasons of the chalage is the fact that you get to chose the next one. I know why ur saying what u are, there have been some chalange topics whcih have lacked intrest because of the poor choise of topic. I still however do not think it right to take the wining prise away from the winner....

You have a good point there.


However, at this point we have a second tie in voting for the challenge. This means -2 days for shooting. And that is bad.

It's true, its not quite good to take away half of the prize from the winner. But then again i find it quite unfair to delay the challenge for the rest of the guys. Everybody should get a chance at 1 week of studying photography and finding the best shot. Also, from what i've noticed the last challenges have suffered from poor and hard-to-aproach in photography topics. And I find that unfair again for the photographers.

At this point I'm trying to think whats best for all of us rather than whats best for the winner. Thinking naturalistic rather than hedonistic.

If I'm wrong, please forgive me. These last few weeks have been quite a strange experience for me.

Also, hugs to Stine for bringing clarity in this. You're great, dudete!

Cheerio!

[claudeEGYPT]

I think one of the admins should try and organize these topics into categories, like emotion, adjective, noun, verb.. etc.. make it easy for everyone to look at i guess.
sound good?

[Mr. Mu]

Folks, forgive my dimwittedness, but I am a bit confused with the two rules no. 4...


challenge A does not allow *any* manipulation? When I scan negatives, I am allowed to do colour correction or levels/curves?

challenge B does allow any kind of manipulation? I can knock out subject/motif, enhance bg, do whatever I like to the image?

Just so I get this right...

[Morbid]

As far as I know challenge A lets you correct colors, crop, add borders etc. Just no editing of the elements in the pic by cloning or brushing.

Challenge B allows just about any editing i guess?

[Evolution]

I think challenge A allows you to do anything that you could do in a darkroom, but in challenge B, anything goes.

[Barret_wallace]

we should do something special for the one year anniversary of the photochallenge, any ideas?


the orginal idea
December 18th, 2005
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57780


The first challenge, Christmas/Winter
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58060


we have all come a long way since this



./.edit, added some info

[Le Gab]

Well, how about you tell us what you have in mind, Barret...

Just like in the words of a great man: "Anyone can play guitar!"

So, really now, think we should make a Photochallenge Monument?

How about a Photo of the Year comp?

[Barret_wallace]

that was actualy a wery god idea!
creating a poll of the winners of the photochallenge the past year
and vote the picture of the year

[samsite999]

great thinking u guys, ill give the thumbs up on that one

[stine]

the anniversary is coming closer! it's this saturday, actually. should we make this "photo of the year" thing with all the winning pictures of 2007? i lost track of the last few winners, so if someone could update the "winners of the photo challenge" thread, i would take care of the anniversary-challenge... just let me know if you're interested... happy holidays to all of you!

[someone]

Whoa I went away for a while and then came back and there are a bunch of changes! What's the deal with 2 challenges? And then have different rules? Now that I have a camera that doesn't require disks I can actually try the challenges every now and then probably

And what are the start/end days for the challenge now?

[Le Gab]

The Cgallenge has been undergoing some serious metamorphosys.... but it's back yo the old format .

1 challenge, 1 set of rules, same day.

[someone]

Alright then! I like it that way anyway

So does it start on Saturday and end on Thursday? I don't quite remember...

[Le Gab]

RTM

READ THE RULES!

1. Only one picture per contestant.

2. No previously used material. All photos must be fresh and never displayed on any gallery / thread.

3. The winner of the last poll will set the next topic; if the same person stands as the winner two times in a row, he or she must choose another user to present the next topic

4. Enhancements of the picture ARE allowed in terms of color management, curves, levels, etc. Adding elements in the photo / brushing / anything that diverts into photomanipulation shall not be accepted.

5. No voting for your own picture.

6. The challenge starts thursday, poll opens tuesday and closes thursday. the winner starts a new post on the photo forum that is named "The Photo challenge - the chosen topic".

7. The poll shall be opened tuesday evening.

8. In the event of a tie in the polls, the person who created the challenge casts the tie breaking vote.

9. The winner has until 18:00/6:00 pm (GMT +2) thursday, after he or she has won to present the next topic, if the winner fails to do so. the topic will be presented by the 2nd place person on the poll

10. Please add a title to your picture
Edit/Delete Message

[Barret_wallace]

is it still alowed to adjust levels and suturation in the pictures?

[samsite999]

i believe so, well as far as i am aware

[Mr. Mu]

Hi,

first of all, a question:

the allowed level of manipulation involved with an image for the challenge is quite obscure for me. As there is no challenge B anymore (change the rules text, please. Kinda confusing...), I guess anything which can be considered darkroom work would be fine?

things I do as of now:

- levels
- curves
- soften
- sharpen
- gradients on new layers

but that list might grow and with no specific rules at hand it's always a bit of guesswork where you bend and where you break the rules.

My suggestion would be to no longer care wether or not it's actually manipulated, because as we are watching it all the digital way it's all the same to me if you only crop it or freak out on filters and collages with your image.

A little written explanation what everyone did with their photos should be obligatory and then everything could be allowed.

Which takes me to another much more important point:

With the negative space challenge we did not only have a lot of entries, but also the time to discuss (and follow a discussion) about images and what to do and not to do with them in order to get a better photo.
I would love to see all of the challenges take that direction.

In short: I had rather have a workshop than a challenge. Like the OFDW workshops or the new fortnightly Character Concept Cafés over at CGTalk, for example.
Two weeks of discussion, WIP posting and continuous work on your entry. We could keep the competetive character of the whole thing, of course, and do a poll at the end, but instead of people just rushing the entries in without much interaction you could have an ongoing community increasing event that would produce continuously improving photography.

This has to do with my impression that this place could be more than just a gallery (there are better sites for that purpose only, actually) - it could be a place where learning and interaction is in focus instead of presentation. And for that you have to go and offer places and opportunities for devoted interaction other than just people posting to their presentation threads (which is fine, but a bit one-dimensional).

That's what I think.

How about you?

[Le Gab]

Mr. Mu, I read your post. It was a pleasure. It's not that often when you see people have some clean and clear thoughts about how things should be evolving around here. Of course, we also had some other organizational suggestion, like the guy who proposed to sorting the photochallenge by adjectives and nouns and such. Meeh, I wont be going into the pointless-ness (word?) of the idea.

Changing the Challenge into a workshop sounds good but not very doable. you see, we are a very conservative of the photochallenge, arround here, it's becoming kinda vintage. There has been a lot of experimenting with it, had more challenges at once and so one, and it seems tha we almost found a stable version.
However, your idea sounds really good, it would be such a waste to drop it, so here is my proposal: I'd like you to start a Workshop Thread. You chose the topic. My best idea for a subject would be BW Photography (maybe portraits?). I dunno, just a thought, considering the fact that i so love your BW works so far. Aaaaanywayz, you make the choice.

Just start a new thread, with the name The Photography Workshop: Topic. It will be my pleasure to sticky it for 2 weeks and then un-sticky it. As the workshop begins I'll contact the other mods and we'll discus it and how it can improve.

Wha'cha think? You up to the challenge?

[klips]

Gab, that sounds like a Photo Challenge with a topic of Mr Mu ;D

EDIT: I forgot to say, this workshop on a given topic sounds excellent, although it would be nice to have a slightly longer period. To ensure that comments/crits are given, could we possibly have a 'always comment on the one above you' rule, as well as any other ones you wish to? That would ensure the workshop function works, as opposed to just being a showcase.

[purplerose]

I like the workshop idea in addition to the Challenges. Right now, I'm leaning more in the direction of film (especially since I dont have a digi cam) and it's hard to have to take a picture and get my film developed in 10 days or less; unless someone wants to give me a couple hundred bux, lol.

I also like the idea of explaining what you did to the photos for the Challenges. I think that would make it easier to vote without regret of voting for, essentially, a photomanipulation. You can do amazing things in a traditional darkroom, but at some point it turns into photomanipulating and not just processing and printing a normal photo.

[Mr. Mu]

Hi folks,

I initially felt a bit awkward for harrassing you for a feedback to the post above in the challenge thread, but I don't regret it when I read great answers like these...

Originally Posted by LeGab

it's becoming kinda vintage

LOL, I understand. I actually like the challenge, and your suggestion to start a separate workshop would indeed be more consequent/concise with what actually ran through my mind.

Like Klips pointed out we would have to make sure that the goals of the workshop and the challenge don't intersect. It should definitely not become a alternative topicking event only with a longer running time.

What I have in mind is something like this:

I suggest a technique-based assignment. The subject of the photo we can leave to the participants or do some suggestions in addition from which people can choose if they got no idea what to take a photo of.

Then I or whosoever starts a workshop would also go and try to find information (like articles, tutorials, example images) on the technique so everyone has something to start with.

Most people in here work digitally, so WIP posting would be easy for them. If you work analog-ically(istic?)(istically?)( ) the plan would be to shoot as much as possible in one take and see what you got. Like purplerose said correctly we need a bigger timeframe in order to let the film users come up with alternative shots.

Everyone is invited to c&c and posting in the workshops means you appreciate constructive criticism. Paintovers/Manipulations to demonstrate a point are okay only if you ask the photographer first, though, I suggest.

From my experience from other workshops you normally don't have to force people to interact (so basically I would like to try without any rules like "c&c before you post your stuff" or the like). People can always ask for c&c, too, if they feel they are being overlooked (see my post in the challenge, heh... ).

Possible technique based topics (and I only list up a few things which I was always interested in )

- backlighting: shoot a backlit object. Feel free to either create a silhouette or use fill in flash.

- chiaroscuro portrait: enhance the depth in your headshots by making use of shadow and light the classical way

- shadows: make the shadow of an object your subject. Use efficient lighting to create interesting shadows.

- Value study. Create a b/w image with full tonal range, i.e. details in shadow and highlight. Use HDR, double exposure or any technique you can think of. Analyse your images. Convert or create from scratch.

- (this would need a bit of preparation as a bit of equipment is needed) Off camera flash lighting: take the flash off of your camera! synchronize with remotes or cable(much cheaper, it's like $10 or so). Mix ambient with flash lighting!

- Time exposure: shoot something that is enhanced by a time exposure.

- Collage: combine any number of shots to create a realistic looking new image. Make it so people won't realize it's a collage.

And so on... topics there are enough...

Points I am insecure about:

- Does the list look attractive to anybody else, actually?

- I am by no means an expert in any of these. I would just love to learn something about them like the rest of the participants. I wouldn't want people to think I would teach that shit, you know...

- The time frame. 4 weeks is too long. 2 weeks might be too short for the analog folks. 3 weeks?

Looking forward to your feedback.

[klips]

Mr Mu: Three weeks sounds good, with maybe a week off for the next person to organise tutorials/articles etc for the next workshop. I would be happy to do this for one in every so-many, and I would also not be averse to having repear ones every so often (e.g a B+W portrait workshop every 4 months so that you can see development). Other suggestions of mine:

Telephoto Landscapes
HDR Workshop (need to get a good, free plugin for this)
Macro workshop (including 10 square feet challenges etc)
Specific photo enhancement (such as level/colour correction, basic photomanipulation etc).

You get the idea. Let's get this going, and I would like to start with B+W portraits as it's something I'm enjoying at the moment.

Cheers,
Klips

[Mr. Mu]

klips,

sounds awesome! (the photo enhancement is something I also had in mind, btw... should be very interesting...)

So, I will put together a first workshop post with chiaroscuro: portrait photography and post it some time today.

cheers!

Mu

[klips]

Excellent, if you need any help send me a PM or something

[Le Gab]

Mr Mu, Rad-Man and Rose, great job on developing the idea. It's starting to get really into shape.

What i'd really like to see now is the thread.

Hugses!

[Mr. Mu]

's coming!

[Rhynome]

Oh, this photo could be interesting... some would say it's wrong, others wouldn't.

The method I've always used is "Would you accept it if it were film and this, or something like this, had been done by hand?" You see, the rules permit colour management, but do they permit colour removal/retaining?

When we had an issue like this in the past the conclusion we came to for one (actually, much more heated) issue was "If you don't think it's meant to be there, don't vote for it." Which seemed to work.

Others are going to say what they think about whether it's in the rules or not. I personally think it's pushed it just a tiiiiny bit too far, as the idea is to find/make a photo that portrays the theme. If the photo is too busy when you took it, then that's a shame, it's too busy so go hunt down another one, rawr! Changing the colours to remove the business essentially changes the photo almost entirely, in this case at least, you said so yourself. It's about the skill of you as a photographer at the conception of the photo. Yes, you did say that's how you saw it, but I hope you understand what I mean. What you show us is different to the actual photo you took to such an extent that it changes the 'performance' of the piece.

So I think it slightly overpushes the mark, changing what would probably be a pretty decent photo into a much better one, which goes against the idea of the challenge really. You're a newbie though, this is in no way a 'go away, remove your photo and never come back, scum!' Let's see what others say, chances are many if not most people might say it should stay.

(Moved Thread)

[little_john]

Originally Posted by Rhynome

Oh, this photo could be interesting...

You're a newbie though, this is in no way a 'go away, remove your photo and never come back, scum!'

Oh no...interesting is not always good. Especially on a heated topic that was previously discussed. Ouch.

Thanks for not running me off.

Again, I will gladly remove this picture if it offends or breaks the rules. I have a TON of other pics I could use and a camera to take more. I'm partial to this picture, so I figured why not share it and this seemed perfect. Resting Place, that's what it says to me...or waiting.

Thanks for not bashing me.

~JL

(Moved Thread)