Here is a PDF download of my "God's Principles of Artistic
Purpose" workshop where I was the guest speaker.
Print it out, read it over lunch, on your break or during your quiet
time. Just be sure to enjoy it and share your feedback:
"God's Principles of Artistic
Helping Creative People Discover Their Purpose:
Art Lessons From God!
Ugh, I've always despised the self righteousness of this notion that god has supplied you with talent, and if you aren't a good christian and glorify god with your talent you've wasted your life and your talent.
God can sit on it and spin.
I've busted my ass to get to where I am, I'm not gifted with anything, and to say that implies that my hard work means nothing.
I've got a long ways to go yet and I won't get there by resting on the idea that I am unique in one way or another, or that god "chose" me to become an artist.
I'll do it by bustin my ass even more than what it took for me to get to where I am today.
Just my 2cents.
Last edited by Tyranx; June 8th, 2006 at 09:00 PM.
I was thinking the same. I don't feel I've been "given" anything... I've worked very hard to learn what I know now about art. And I don't even know all that much.
I also very much dislike when someone deigns to tell me that anything I'm doing is a misuse or waste of my effort. It's not your place to tell me if what I'm doing is a waste or misuse. That's up to me, my mentors and whatever company I'm working for.
Either that, or your god considers that I'm making appropriate use of the "talents" it "bestowed" on me by creating graphics for violent computer games. Heh.
Tsnipes: Your intentions are good(in your own way), but please, spare us the religious propaganda and you won´t have to be dissapointed of our reaction.
If you had posted something extra with the PDf, such as "If you're a christian, here's something to read over...." or "My personal beliefs on art IE we should use it to help/inspire others, as the bible said..." than MAYBE you would have recieved a better response.
But you didn't. So you probably won't.
Can you put virii & Co. in .PDF files ?...
Wow, Tyranx, Chingwa, and MoP!
Ya know, there was nothing derogatory in this pdf file, yet you 3 felt it to be adult and appropriate to say mean things to tsnipes.
You could have come in to this thread, say, "this stuff doesn't apply to my beliefs," and left. But instead, you came into the thread, took everything personal, and shat all over tsnipes' beliefs for no good reason whatsoever.
This pdf looks like it's meant to be uplifting to those who believe in God. It takes art and relates it to passages in the bible. tsnipes thought he would be nice and share it, but he gets called self righteous and his god is told to "sit on it and spin?" Really mature.
If these were Bhuddist beliefs about art with Bhuddist passages relating to art, no one would get all huffy and offended.
Why don't you guys realize that some might take comfort in the idea that their talents are a gift from something/someone? There's no reason to get angry about that.
If you don't believe it, fine. Don't tell others' gods to fuck off. That is so incogitant, immature, and entirely INTOLERANT to beliefs different than yours. GROW UP.
I'm with magicgoo here. Tsipes and I couldn't be further apart philosophically/theologically in general, and on this particular issue in particular. But he has always been straightforward about his beliefs and intentions, and has never been combative or antagonistic in his posts. I think when you title something "God's Principles of Artistic Purpose" your viewpoint is pretty clear. Those who are interested or intrigued can read the post, download the pdf, etc. Those who aren't don't have to.
**Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial
Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!
"Work is more fun than fun."
"Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
It's always fascinating when beliefs are projected here (or in most places on the internet, I suspect). There will generally be folks whose beliefs are strong enough and counter to such a degree that they will feel compelled to respond with their own beliefs. Sometimes with anger.
It's almost like watching people's reactions when a bee buzzes around them. Some will remain still and watch, while others will try out for the Funky Chicken Olympics and sprout several more limbs to flail about and give that sound you get from a '72 Matador when its alternator belt freezes up.
It makes me wonder what would happen were we all sitting in the same room, with just a couple pieces of pizza left and the credits rolling on that Magnum PI when Rick and TC dress up like girls.
Makes me wonder...
Originally Posted by dogfood
That´s prone to happen, and actually is more often than you think, only with religion and politics people start to take it in a higher degree.
All though I see magicgoo´s point, is sort of hard to ask people to act mature, specially when cronologicaly they are not suppose to be. People will come faster and stronger when they see a topic or post they completely disagree on. For example, magicgoo just did something similar in a lesser and more justifyed degree. (but just by a tiny bit from what Tyranx and MoP wrote)
But still, all is bitter in religion and politics...My personal opinion is that tsnipes sig is just enought for the ones who are interested.
Edit: forgot to add=
-I want you to apply the "if you don´t agree, dont post anything" logic in another context.
-I want you to imagine what would happen if this was a post about the Coran.
-A friendly reminder, peoples different opinions about religion will be most of the time offensive to one another, because thats how religion works, don´t be surprized.
Last edited by Shamagim; June 8th, 2006 at 05:56 PM.
hmmm i actually have NO idea what your point was Dog FOod but incredibly funny as always.
i think you have grouped tyranx and Mop's post in a little unfairly with chingwa's post magicgoo...(now theres a senstence i never thought i'd say)...chingwa took it to the next level by insulting and disrespecting a relgion where it was un-called for, tyranx and Mop in my opinion were only defending where they believe they had been personally attacked. I come out with the same response if my friend tells me im a 'natural artist' theres nothing at all natural about my abilitie, it came about by hours of drawing and as tyranx says will only improve with hours more, I personally have often been told what Tsnipes have posted, i come from a family with parents who are minsiters a sister in a youth chorus and a brother in training to be a minister,over the years i have learnt to keep my head down bite my tongue and recognise that these words are not ment as an attack but simply my familys way of, as best they know, trying to help me but i can understand how tyranx and Mop feel this is simply a personal attack, it all comes down to personal experience with this sort of theory.
ah golly will you just look at all those spelling mistakes?
Typical anti-Christian responses... Gezzz, can't we all be friends.
This comes up everytime someone posts something religious.
If you can come into topics that are about evolution or any other scientifically charged topic that religion chooses to disagree with and try to argue with it, we can do the same in religious topics.
If a topic is posted for debate or discussion thats one thing. But this guy posts a thread to be inspirational or certianly harmless in nature, and people come in and rip him a new asshole... If you don't agree with someone, you don't need to walk all over their beliefs or a simple I don't agree with you and heres why would suffice.
Magicgoo - I wasn't attacking Tsnipes, I was merely stating my own opinion, I think Chingwa's last comments; "God can sit on it and spin. Total BS." may have been uncalled for, yes.
But I don't see how you took offense to my post, Can't I express myself too? and besides, my post doesn't say anything about telling his god to fuck off.
I was just stating my opinion, just as you have.Originally Posted by Magicgoo
I don't think I'm out of line any more than anyone else posting in this forum. Tsnipes, while I give him kudos for putting his own beliefs out there, asked for feedback and I gave mine. Was I a bit harsh? That's up for debate, but I've seen plenty of harsh things pandered back and forth on this forum and frankly If I posted something about how art, something everyone here pours there mind body and soul into, basically means nothing unless you are connected to my own idea of divine salvation... well... I would expect a bit of a hostile response.
To say my "talent is wasted" because I'm not connected to this god is just as "incogitant, immature, and entirely INTOLERANT" as me telling this god to spin on it.
Chingwa man, so angry ;P, I see you are feed up with society and all the problems we are having with it nowadays.
Man relaaaaax or release some anger in a canvas, I made some twisted monsters the other weekend, around 10, works like a charm and keeps you sane for the rest of the week, hopefully without making any enemies or viewing things in a much slower and calm way .
I kindly ask anyone else to pass the opportunity to start a completely unnnesesary holy war....This things are more likelly to happen this way in the same rythm, choose not to dance and you will be ok. .
Last edited by Shamagim; June 9th, 2006 at 02:31 AM.
There is no real problem with exchanging views thru dialog with regards to personal beliefs. The only real problem starts when someone tries to shove his/her belief down into another person's throat. So I agree with Sham - let's keep it civil - whether or not we like each other's beliefs, we can at least find common ground in mutual respect.
On Topic: Whether or not God gave us our talent, I don't know. But I do know that without some hard work it doesn't really matter because nothing will get done. Some may find inspiration to work hard because of their belief, others may find inspiration from other things. Of course there's always the argument that "God creates all" so if you find inspiration in anything and everything then you're "connected" to God in the end - if so then there's not a lot of room for discussion.
Personally I'm not religious. My motivation has largely been restricted to "fun" and "survival". I like what I do because its fun and keeps me sane. I do what I like to feed myself and if I don't finish my assignments, I don't get to eat. Not very sexy, but hey its a good life so far. I don't need much more motivation than the growl of my hungry stomach.
Anyhow, I tend to knock on religion a little and have been resistant to organised religion since I was 14. But I cannot deny that it is an important part of the fabric of life. I think Tsnipes here is doing an important job because some of the kids out there really have nothing much to hold on to. If via religion they can be inspired to be productive/creative individuals, then it is a good thing for everyone. Of course there is the other side of the blade on the double edged sword -the one we see in the news daily about religious fanaticism and extremist/terrorist activities. But if put across positively, it is good. And I think it is put across positively here.
Anyhoo, that's my personal sermon. AND its 1am and I should really go complete those ink drawings that are due in the morning LOL.
There are 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine and THE TRUTH.
One small point is that I don't think saying your talent is a gift from God discredits the work that you've put into it. Christians believe life is a gift from God so all things fall into that category to us. I know I didn't wake up one morning and could draw "Thank you Jesus!" and I don't think that the post was saying that. I think God that I got more enjoyment out of drawing then going out and playing football when I was a kid. The chances of me becoming a pro-ball player are allot slimmer then becoming an artist, so I had a drive and desire that pushed me in a more realistic direction then alot of my peers, so I am able to work in a field that I love. I thank God for that. As far as using your talents for God, I don't take this as being in the ministry neccesarily, but just being good at what you do. Thats a testimony too. Anyway, thats how I look at it.
i'm with magicgoo here.
if this was a post that promoted any religion but Christianity, it would most likely have been tolerated much more graciously.
just cause it's "Christian" doesn't mean it's ok to trash it.
tolerance isn't just for a select few.
that would be called discrimination.
thanks for the post tsnipes and to your credit, it takes alot of courage to post something like that where you can get blasted just for trying to speak your mind.
i for one appreciated it.
Careful there Annie Oakley. They didn't get mad because it was christianity, but because they misinterpreted the message of the document. Mainly the part about wasted talent.Originally Posted by mwillustration
Almost got yourself in a pickle there.
all i'm saying is that if this post were started about some other religion or worldview giving meaning to art, it'd be handled alot less vehemently.
as far as wasting talent, i think it's fairly universal to think that if someone has a natural tendency to excel in something, it's a waste not to use or cultivate that ability.
i got on my knees for god every day for years and all i got was oral herpes
See what I mean about intolerance toward religious beliefs?
Davi, that was totally just rude. You're saying you blew someone's god and got VD? WTF? Incredibly rude. I don't care if you're the top admin here or if I get banned for calling you rude, but I'm not gonna kiss the ass of someone I've never met just so I can be a part of a forum. And, I'm certainly not gonna stand by while other's beliefs are trashed. There was no reason for that. What did tsnipes ever do to you?
I think you owe people an apology for that. Honestly. This could have been a friendly thread, but as soon as people mention something that was a positive and harmless uplifting message, everyone else just pisses all over it.
Fucking rude and childish.
First group B bitches about group A because group are was offended by the original poster (The whole god given talent thing). And they say that group A should just ignore the original poster because he was directing this thread to people who can relate to this. And now you are bitching about someone beause he's talking about some god with no specific religion mentioned? Could it be that he's writing about something that has no relation to your god or other peoples god? You should probably read your post from June 8th, 2006 06:51 PM. I don't think that davi's comment was funny or whatever but he did never mention someones god just a god. He might be rude and childish but there is at best a implied relation to the gods of people who write something in this thread because people like to think that everything is relates to them is some way.Originally Posted by magicgoo
For me his post looked more like some random (semi-related) comment in a thread that has already been derailed with its the first reply.
I don't want to attack you but this bitching about bitching and now my bitching about bitching about bitching seems to have become the main point if this thread. I think Prom has a nice picture for these types of topics.
Mario, thank you for pointing up that paradox.
You can ignore those posts and refrain yourself from posting against something you disagree.
You can ignore those posts and refrain yourself from posting against something you disagree.
Propaganda in propaganda, it shoudn´t be alowed becuase it has harmfull concecuences and makes people get into a terrible paradox about how they should or shoudn´t be entiteled to their opinions. It happens with any religious or political thread and it shoudn´t be a double standard for any special group, no matter how popular it might be.
In the end... nobody will know what they were talking about.
I don't care who's god it is or what god it is.Originally Posted by _Mario
If a thread starts off with good happy intentions, and then the poster's god is told to sit on it and spin, or is said to have herpes, that's just rude.
Look, my point is: If someone posts the 10 Inspirational Artistic Messages By Satan and Buddha, people shouldn't run into the thread and whine that it's offensive and tell all the Satanists and Buddhists that their god's gave them herpes. That's just rude.
No matter what religion, no matter what god: This thread was meant to be innocent, uplifting, and motivational. Now, it's become offensive, derogotory, and hate-driven. Thank you once again, internet.
Is the original poster's intent to be a missionary ? Or is he just looking for a choir to preach to ?
There is some really uplifiting quotes in there but there is also the threat there is some kind of cosmic entity for which you MUST be grateful to or you will face serious consequences. Maybe its just my biases towards Judeo-Christian religion and I'm reading too into this.. But it just seems to me like its often that whenever somebody has a positive message like this, there is also an implication that if you don't live this particular way - than you're in the wrong and you'll be punished somehow. Sort of like a subtly insinuating insult -- its not said outright, but it sure seems like its there, and thats why people react the way that they do. Because they feel that you're saying if you don't believe this way than you're putting them down.. They're less human than you are because they dont realize their life is a gift of the divinity.. They're putting their life and talent to waste because they fail to see their talents are a gift of god. That may or may not be your intent but thats how it can (and seemingly does) come across.
Frankly, I'm sick and tired of all the preachy Buddist threads I'm seeing on this forum, not only that, they come knocking on my door shoving arbitrary nonsense in my face, they destroyed my forefather's culture with their crusades, and they meddle with politics. I'll tell you, right now my Buddhist tolerance threshold is pretty darn low, I might even retort with a joke, but Buddists always gets so upset, starting flamewars and all, so I'll just drop it (I don't want to end up like those poor Muslims and Christians who the Buddhist have bullied for so long).
And uh... I was thinking of starting a thread, but I guess I can pop it here... so, uhm, will someone perform Satanic rites for my Uncle? He's terribly sick. I'm thinking we could sacrifice some souls. What? Such a thread might be offensive to some? Gosh, then I guess I'll just fall over on my back sprawling and play the victim card.
Btw, I was glad to see how everyone stood up against the Scientology ridicule a while ago! Yes, they present arbitrary unprovable nonsense, but they have a right not to be questioned. It's just really bad tact to ask someone claiming to have an invisible dragon in their garage for proof, or god forbid, giggle at them.
A: Hay guys! I have an invisible dragon in my garage giving us tips on how to be an artist!
B: O'RLY? (without proof, I will question the authenticity of these 'dragon tips')
C: Your dragon has warts, LOL!
A: Help! I'm being opressed! Did you see them opressing me?
Is that enough fuel? Let's level up this bitch, it's just like Pokémon!
Last edited by Prometheus|ANJ; June 12th, 2006 at 04:58 AM.
Jamen jag tror att han skäms, och har gömt sig. Vårt universum det är en av dom otaliga spermasatser som Herren i sin självhärliga ensamhet har runkat fram för å besudla intet.