Sunday, 09th April 2006
- for any questions or help go here:
note: The deadline won't be EXACTLY after a week...it can last up to 24 hours more, i am human and have to work also, you know
Post your creature for this week!
Last edited by Fozzybar; April 11th, 2006 at 01:03 PM.
thanx to Consuela for the topic suggestion!
- No individual Character! Design a species!
- Asymmetry must be obvious part of design
Hm, something like one of Batman or Superman or Spiderman (I don't remember...) enemy. Half something, half something. Or we can draw a pile of some ooze'e thing. Good Open Topic. Time to Work
-- Be not afraid of growing slowly, be afraid only of standing still. --
-- My New Not So Sick but Yet Sick Sketchbook is here! --
no, not half something half something, just a creature which is not symmetrical...
Snarfevs posted this as an example in the ideas thread:
and this is exactly what i think of...nothing nonsense like, more something which is a brilliant concept and would work in reality...just as the fiddler crab above
Um well technically the Fiddler Crab isnt asymmetrical. It has bilateral symmetry, the crab is still symmetrical on both sides, the claw is just for purposes of attracting mates and fending off other males and other than that inconsistency its still a mirror image on both halves. The only animal that I can think of that has real asymmetry is the sea sponge as it possesses no axis of symmetry. Asymmetry means lack of any symmetry, so I think this CoW is going to be riddled with blobs, oozes, and other things lacking any form. Not sure if maybe the title should be reworked but I figured Id throw this out there before anyone got started and realized that they made a mistake.
aw man, I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Time to work on an actual entry!
Also, Nexus, what about flounder? They don't really seem to posess any sort of symmetry.
Last edited by Consuela; April 2nd, 2006 at 09:09 PM.
actually depending on how precise you want to be.. although we exhibit some level of Bilateral symetry . we are none of us precisely symetrical. My left hand is bigger than my right , my right eyebrow is higher etc.. although only by very small degrees.
Adult flounders are pretty assymetrical but Larval flounders are the same as any other fish. and are we asking for non-symmetry bilaterally or on all axes? what about star fish? just tryingto clarify the parameters.
Technically, it is. Semantically the claw may be just an inconsistency, but it breaks the bilateral symmetry otherwise present. That this applies to every male fiddler crab flags this as asymmetry on a fundamental genetic level (although admittedly baby fiddlers start off symmetric and one claw grows huge) rather than simply being a unique trait acquired in one's lifetime like having 3 bumps on one side of your face and 2 on the other. The fiddler crab is actually properly asymmetric as it only has a 360 degree rotational symmetry.Originally Posted by Nexus
However, I'm not entirely sure this is the best topic to do, at least without refinement. I am imagining that there are going to be situations where people are going to draw something without bilateral symmetry but with a 3 or 5-fold rotational axis, improper rotational axis or helical symmetry.
It is possible to draw a heap of structured creatures with no formal symmetry but I can certainly see things going awry when either the artist or someone else notices a mode of symmetry not previously caught in their beautifully rendered creature.
Fair enough Snarfevs, the male fiddler crab is a rather strange anomaly amongst its pefectly bilateral cousins but its so near bilateraly symmetry that I would say its closer to being symmetrical in that respect than to say it lacks any symmetry whatsoever. In regard to the question of asymmetry I looked up the word and the defintion for it verbatum was "no symmetry". Pretty self explanatory. So no corresponding sides of any kind. If you make the thing have four legs then its limbs better not be positioned across from each other in any way shape or form. If you make a round creature then it has to be composed of entirely different parts loosely arranged in a circular fashion. This thing is going to take some consideration and its hard to think outside the realm of symmetry considering its everywhere. Also this creaure has to be truly asymmetrical to an extent that its noticeable not just his fingers are a hair shorter on one side or its leg is a bit longer than the other. That kind of asymmetry isnt whats meant. A person doesnt have the exact same length arms in most cases but they are still bilaterally symmetrical. Still waiting on Fozzy's clarification on this but I think thats whats meant.
Relax Nexus, Fozzy has already shown us what he meant with the fiddler crab example. Just make a creature with a noticable lack of perfect symmetry. That's really all you need to consider, there's no need to argue over semantics and definitions.
Probably right there Plate but I just wasnt sure what level of asymmetry Fozz is talking about here. I mean if a fiddler crab's level of asymmetry is all thats necessary then I could just make a critter with one really big front arm. Or would that not be asymmetrical enough? Thats all I was trying to figure out. Ill leave it alone and just go with my gut on this one I suppose. I havent had time to do the last 3 or so but Im really gonna try to make some time for this one.
The fiddler crab may be piecewise symmetrical, as is everything if you are sufficiently specific, but in terms of intrinsic symmetry the fiddler crab as a whole has none. Albeit this is only within the symmetry modes I have checked:Originally Posted by Nexus
- n-fold proper rotational axes: none
- mirror planes: none
- centers of inversion: none
- improper rotation axes: none
- helical axes, glide axes, translation axes and antisymmetric axes are impossible
As far as point groups are concerned, one _whole_ fiddler crab has absolutely no structural symmetry whatsoever - check - the only point group the fiddler crab satisfies, even if you break it down to dots representing body parts, is the 360 degree identity rotation E. However I don't think fozzybar intends for this to come down to mathematical definitions of symmetry, rather he's probably looking for creatures that are sufficiently symmetrical, but I fear this is going to cause trouble down the track unless it's his executive decision as to what cuts it in terms of asymmetry.
yeah i'm an asshole but the reason why i posted the pic in the first place was because it satisfied mathematical asymmetry
Last edited by Snarfevs; April 2nd, 2006 at 11:02 PM.
Haha Tyranx has a point there. Overanalyzing things doesnt equal great art....time to put boot to ass and pencil to paper.
Reading those last couple of paragraphs almost gave me a hedache.
Wow, asymmetrical creature huh?
What do you think Fozzy, should I take part in this one?
Err... What I am worried about is that someone is going to get disqualified because their entry isn't asymmetrical enough. Or is but people aren't seeing it - like the fiddler crab which may, with caveats, be symmetrical, but really, really isn't. That is all. I'm not entering at any rate (tdome). I'm saying that fozzybar either needs to be really specific with the design brief (probably a bad idea) or really loose with the rejection criteria and listen to people's rationales if necessary as to why their design is legitimate.Originally Posted by Nexus
Guys, come on. Directly below the picture of the fiddler crab, Foz posted "this is exactly what i think of". There's no debate over whether the degree of asymmetry of the fiddler crab is acceptable or not. It is. He said so right there.
The brief is clear enough. The only thing that's confusing it is all the overanalysis and math jargon you're forcing into this thread.
I'm in, need pratise, hehe!
Yes, Mofos! I dig that word, just sounds great!
I was entertained by the analyzing and Snarfves' scientific term dropping - he's a chemical student at university, I found out on his website!
Alright, let's draw some friggin scarry creatures!!! I bet that's what most people will come up with here!
sounds like a fun topic!
my vote goes to jakkas.
ho wait...no one posted anything yet.
alright then - my vote goes to the other guy, with the ants and stuff.
no, wait a sec...ahh..
sounds like a fun topic!
Haha, wow Chuck could you cram anymore sarcasm in there...oh wait I think theres a little room left for some bitterness.
Nice, good to see you havent lost your edge Chuck. No ass patting to be found in your direction.
aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh......all of you shut the fuck up, you are confusing me!!!
Not that i only have problems with the english language for its own but now you are talking about maths and physic and what not...
I am talking about asymmetry as any normal person knows what it's supposed to be...and if anyone will post an entry with a 4 legged creature where 1 leg is 1 inch shorter than the others i will reject it...
and btw arteric :
BABY! Where were you man....enter this one or vanish for ever!
What about a 5 legged creature with one leg missing? : D
Maybe this is also about feeling what 'the assignment giver' means, when Fozzy said his thing and showed that example of the fiddler crab, I got the feeling that I did know what he ment and I didn't worry about all the precise meanings of the terms he uses. I think it's more about the feeling you get.
Live is blur...
lolOriginally Posted by Chuck,mate.
"FAIL, FAIL AGAIN, FAIL BETTER"
i'm goin' to draw fozzy bar with one 'z' shorter than the other.
that'll win me this round fo sho.
pat - that was awesome bud, can't wait to see what you create.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "I" in pie. And there's an "i" in meat pie. Meat is the anagram of team...~Shaun "Shaun of the Dead"