"I wish to paint in such a manner as if I were photographing dreams" - Zdzislaw BeksinskiMy Happy Little Sketchbook, please check it out and help me get better!
Its been in place for a long time before the recent issues, people have complained of it before to no avail. But its pretty damn ridiculous and needs to end.
Ian I get a lot of issues with my old book marks taking me to dead pages on VBull, and a lot of server timeouts recently (load?) since about a week ago. Not sure if its censorship or the effect of something being altered in the back end. Arshes?
EDIT that graph is interesting. Can you speculate on what it means? Better SEO for ..(FFS!) C G HUB?
Last edited by Velocity Kendall; March 9th, 2013 at 09:42 AM.
I guess that's why there's no more need for public banhammer executions, much easier to to snuff people out in the back alley.
That sounds credible and if true, something else that needs to stop. Ill defend CA and its members to the hilt but that bullshit is not my cup of tea at all.
Censorship and art are like oil and water. I mostly think of CA as an art forum. Full of artists both serious and casual, looking to connect. I guess the other side is that it's a business. How I wish it wasn't.
Seriously, I respect everyone's concerns and will address them as I said when I discussed doing the report/audit. If you have further concerns you may reach me via PM, if you have issues with the site please post in the support section, that is what it is for.
I can't keep getting sent back in here to address old gossip, issues I already covered yesterday, or the like, when I am working with people who have little time to give and are giving what they have to make this place better, and have to sit idle as I come in here to fight fires. Please...go draw.
I'm just a nobody, dunno why someone would feel the need to keep me quiet. I guess the truth hurts.
As far as CGHUB they are shut down from here for a number of reasons.
a. when they first started the owners sent emails to all of CA's top artists and offered 50 dollars to make profiles there as no one would have joined if they didn't have the big names and they had a business to build.
b. i saw the site and wrote them and told them how awesome it was and that they built what I had been trying to get built for three years. I told them that I thought combined we could have the best artist site out there. I offered them the main page of conceptart.org and all the traffic, as well as they could keep any of the money they made on it. We would just handle the community side and they could handle the profiles and the news page and do whatever they wanted with it. CA was and is a service to help the community. We were looking to make things better for everyone. Their response was..."we are not going to tell you who we are. we have no interest in working with CA/MB, and we are not going to talk to you." I was stunned. I have had that happen to me only twice in my career (counting that one). The other time was the owner of Blur who turned his back on Chris Hatala and I when we went up to him at the Blur party and some of his employees got all excited that guys from MB were there. When we reached out our hands the guy just turned his back and walked away. I remember Hatala saying to me "dude...did he just diss us when we tried to shake hands?" I told him.."yeah...that was weird, why would he do that?" Well I wrote Travis from g n o m o n as Trav knows EVERYTHING about whats going down in the industry social media space and Trav says to me...Jas...you don't know? It's some dude who went to school with you and Android and some director from Blur (a competitor to MB). I was stunned. I didn't even know who the heck the guy was and neither Andrew or I remember him in our classes. So there you go...do the math. I still haven't met the guy from Ringling who copied what we worked so hard on, but I do think he did a damn fine job with their site.
c. I then write this programming company in the Ukraine to see if they could build the new CA site when we first designed 4.0. The guy says...we made CGHUB and they made us promise to never work with CA or MB ever. I said, we are going to spend a ton of money, did you sign a contract with them? He said no. He said I promised them. I said ok man..I can respect that. Integrity is important. Good luck. Shame too...it was the first tech company I had found and the only one I thought could actually build what this community needed. The tech company we used after that struggled.
d. They then copy and clone our community structure and pretty much duplicate CA as they see it best which if it were an artist ripping on another artist you all would be in an uproar...but it is tech and community so folks are for some reason ok with it. Even our /search blog viewer got cloned. I then found a site that listed part of their biz plan and it said it was an advertising revenue generation business. I am still not happy that they siphoned off a third of our traffic when we were doing this as a benefit for the community and they were doing it to make cash with advertising.
e. oh and they were using images that CA and MB owned with the cghub logo plastered on them on their myspace page...one of which was the ConceptArt.Org Revelations poster. That one pissed me off, but I let it go. I focused on building other things like low cost education and putting together the 2 Million dollar scholarship program that changed a lot of artists lives on this site. You can't win them all...and sometimes you have to pick your battles wisely.
So with that said...I have only this message for C G H U B ---I don't care who you are. We will not be openly sending our traffic to support you.
Last edited by Jason Manley; March 9th, 2013 at 11:54 AM.
That's interesting re the CGhub thing. But it's like everything else in life. There's always at least a few different sides to every story.
And just quickly re the database error messages. I get them too. I figured it was because there's so much traffic here at the moment, the servers cant handle it. Just a shame that traffic isn't permanent.
Our traffic is up fifteen percent this month, and not from this thread. I am going to push to double the traffic this year.
Back to work...I am swamped for the coming days. The forums upgrades to the profiles and notifications and the awards/badges that I posted in the thread about improving CA are going in today.
Jason, I almost gave in to just posting a humorous .gif to showcase the absurdity of your c g h u b post...
...Seriously, sometimes a little self-reflection may help. Please just return soon with real answers and info regarding the current situation like you promised. You might not want to make any further posts like that last one until you are sober (and I'm saying with this with the best interests of CA at heart).
[To Jason] I seriously only said that with the best intentions for the well-being of this community and yourself (believe it or not). No one, especially not me, would have a problem with you answering questions raised in this thread. If you want to take my words as an insult, then go ahead, pretend I never said anything
Please just don't let the following scenario happen:
The forum upgrades you're so busy with gets pushed out the door, the forum gets spammed with it as the next new big CA upgrade. This whole matter gets swept under the rug, and when we ask for the promised truth about what happened here, we'll be marked as trolls who have nothing better to do.
Please don't say this: "I worked so hard to bring you the forums upgrades to the profiles and notifications and the awards/badges. I did all this for CA.org recently, what have YOU done? Go draw or something, it's crit week!"
Please don't do this again. It'll only make the next time hurt more.
EDIT: Ok, you edited your post, so hopefully you cleared your head a bit and realised what I said wasn't an insult.
EDIT: Urgh, you deleted your entire post, now I just look like I'm talking to myself.
EDIT: Am I going crazy again? What happened to the post above Candra H's where the poster asked whether Jason seriously wants to accuse C G H U B of being thieves at this sensitive time?
Last edited by paperX; March 9th, 2013 at 12:01 PM.
Paperx, I'm really not sure you're helping. You complained about being censored because you were getting database error messages - seemingly more interested in jumping to conclusions than considering the possibility that there might be a technical issue. All this talk about Jason's past censoring behaviour just waiting in the wings and going on behind the scenes is really tiring to read.
I'm not seeing any of this kind of behaviour from him now so if it's not relevant to the situation in this thread, which is about royalties not being paid and trying to clear things up after the witch hunt that followed, maybe you could see your way clear to not tarring the guy with his past mistakes.
I am averaging 60 million page views a month...no ads tho..how much am i missing out?
I am the founder of a large online digital art and entertainment art community which is averaging the following stats:
1. 60 million page views per month
2. 1.2 million visits per month
3. 700k uniques per month
75 percent is american traffic the rest is europe mostly.
the demographic is mostly 16-35 year old males (the video game crowd with a creative education) very tech savvy...most educated and highly talented.
we have extremly high quality and unique content including tons of exclusive art for major video game and movie projects that go up in our community.
nearly every major entertainment corporation has members on our website, from microsoft to sony to ea to nintendo to ILM to Weta Digital...you name it, they are on there.
we run the site as a non-profit organization and have always spurned ads. we fund the community through training workshops which bring out most the big companies and about 300 art school students each shot at about five hundred bucks a head. We also have dvd educational content and downloadable art education content for sale that does very well.
Now, today we were pushed to do advertising by another company due to our traffic numbers and I am seriously wondering...how much are we missing out on by continuing down the "no way do we sell out" path. It seems that CPM advertising is the best way to go but it also seems like rates have gone way down over the years.
Most the sites I am finding with sixty million page views a month are claiming a 20k-70k a month revenue stream. This is not possible is it? It seems way bloated to me for just having some banners up.
Any advice is appreciated. We give all our money back to the community in form of scholarships, educational programs, and improved technology (the galleries are currently down for updates).
Are we making a mistake by not doing ads? Is there really significant revenue to be had with traffic numbers like ours? It is of note, that our traffic has doubled every year for five years in a row. We are about to undergo a major expansion into other niches and we are reconsidering our biz model.
And then TAD was born...
Candra, like I said, the technical issues happened immediately after my post was censored (are you going to pretend s a f e h o u s e isn't censored?) and was isolated to my paperX account alone, as soon as I logged out or used my temporary new account I had no issues what so ever, I even asked a friend in another country to test for me before the posting in this thread. So I hope you understand I wasn't just jumping to conclusions. From my end it everything pretty much led me to one conclusion.
I'm also not forcing Jason to talk about the past mistakes or anything, if anything I just did the reverse. If you didn't read my last two posts, I'm actually asking Jason to cool his head and come back with the info he promised which is relevant to this thread, instead of potentially sparking new drama with C G H U B.
I admit the hypothetical scenario painted in my last post might be a bit much and comes across as a bit of a dick move(I appreciate that CA's finally getting the upgrades by the way). It's just issues have been swept under the rug before and I hope that won't be the outcome this time. If the scenario I said doesn't happen then I'd be happy to give Jason props when he comes back with the answers as promised.
@Venger: Good call dude.
Last edited by paperX; March 9th, 2013 at 11:58 AM.
Hm, I think you should cool down, Paperx. You are jumping to conclusions by thinking one thing must automatically lead to another because you've seen or heard of previous bad behaviour on someone's part. That's what jumping to conclusions comprises.
As far as I've seen, Jason has kept a cool head, so lets all settle down, take a deep breath, and think about things logically and rationally. Okay? That's all I'm asking.
yeah...we looked at anything and everything on how we could keep this community funded, open, and free for everyone. CGS had hit us up with an offer to carry their ads and I was trying to figure out if their offered payment was worth what ads do to a site, which personally I do not like. Back then we were spending a ton of money, as servers were ungodly expensive and underpowered. It took a dozen servers to run CA back then...and server costs had us nearly over our heads. I could not afford to personally pay for it any longer and piracy was about to cost us most of the revenue the videos were making. What budget we did have was not going to keep the site open and free. As said before, the ca members sharing the videos and pirating the content almost killed CA back then. If not for my brothers firm giving us antipiracy services at super cheap rates, and being entirely effective, we would have had to close.
Our page view counter was broken though...thus the high page view number...its actually seven to ten mil page views monthly I think. We even looked at it again when we had further costs here, but the banner model is not really valid anymore.
When someone offers to give you money to do something it is always wise to check in and see if their offer is fair. It was, but we would have been covered in ads and I thought it looked terrible and felt like a sell out. I turned down the offer back then from CGS, who does do a nice job with the ads on their site, but on CA it looked...I didn't like what the mockups looked like and we left it at that. Business brainstorm over. Later when things got expensive again, we even looked at doing ads again, but the banner market for advertising is just not really valid anymore.
With that said, I get at least one advertising company hitting us up every couple months and have not taken any of them. I don't even want to think about how much money we gave up by choosing to keep this a community driven site instead of an advertising site. I don't mind the google footer ads as no one goes down that far, but the side bar ads and header ads and all that...ugh. The only way we do that is if we continue to see costs go up, which can happen, and have not solved our needs for cashflow another way.
And yes...not long after the idea TAD was born. I didn't start building the online college though until early 2009.
Last edited by Jason Manley; March 9th, 2013 at 12:22 PM.
What's funny is the guy commented on affiliate links and I had no idea what that was and wasn't looking for other answers...just curious if the CGS deal was fair and if we were stupid for not doing ads. The affiliate link model is actually something we looked at recently for the first time.
If you don't have good technical know how, please stay out of those discussions. Let those who DO have the know how answer and address the user's questions.
Nice. Interesting how post #680 by thomasChatworth un-stealthed.
Brad got paid already so I'm outta here (as a freelancer I'm in solidarity with his cause). As long as you know whether you're a tool or not for CAsh cow, you're doing A-OK.
See 'ya in the next CA epic drama (hopefully not until after 4 years!)
I Love Ca Forum.
I did own the domain and hosted it with a small host back then, but then cgchannel wanted to host it for us and we let them...and then they had a massive fight internally (apparently one of the owners was hosting porn sites secretly on their servers), and as a result of the fight one of the partners ran off to asia with the servers and took all of conceptart.org with him...leaving me to rebuild the entire site and community from scratch, four months of really great organization wiped out in one second. That was when CA was doomed...but we rebuilt from the ground up.
Just so I Can Know..Every Time I Post This Red Idiot Thing Gets Bigger?..Come On Guys I Learnd My Leasen.
Speaking of idiots, for all you people who ask me Hey, VK why you defending people who dont pay freelance artists!? I say this:
1. I am a freelance artist, so what youre asking is ridiculous and
2. Everyone deserves a fair hearing based on the facts, no matter who they are. Mob justice is for animals and thugs. Civilised people look to the facts. If you dont like it, bite my ass.