Edit Note This topic is a split from http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=238297 I moved it here so that the person's critique can still continue, and to be fair for all members to still be able to continue or not continue the discussion end Edit
Sorry for the blanc OT, I just really want to add something to this:
Then what were heroes like Tarzan or Conan? Their roles are best described as primitives with muscles. However, you wouldn't ever say that these are sexobjects.I personally think it's a way for men to deal with feeling threatened by powerful women, by diminishing them to sex objects.
Also, strong woman are not feeling like an intimitation for the male gender. I'm not really very attracted by female javelin throwers, however I am by good looking female boxer or tennis player (actually I've been together with a female boxer for a while, and I know she was stronger than me), as well as I'm less attracted by a overweight and ugly than a good looking female. Woman have a very different and more complex idea of a sexually appealing man. Many factors play a role, not just appearance. The majority (!! this means not every single woman in the world!!) of woman still are less interested in just a man's lookings (meaning, they are paying attention to a lot of other stuff too) than the majority of men is interested in just the womens lookings. This does not mean I am like that, this does not mean I am endorsing this behaviour. Also this does not mean it counts for every woman and man. Of course there are exeptions. Also, "less" doesn't mean "woman like ugly men" or "men only like one kind of generic super woman". So stop this childish pseudo-argument of "generalization".
This opinion now is of course ment for people who are searching for a partner, not for a ONS. And my opinion here is proven quite a lot by the current entertainment branche. Not lastly by "why are female heros always attractive?". Look, TV, movie and co. are representing the interestes of mankind. If this wouldn't be the situaton, actually nobody would watch all the poulair movies and nobody would ever watch TV.
Since the original topic was about tearing apart a drawing that showed a lightly closed female hero, the question I was trying to answer here is, why most female heros are attractive, while male heros often are not (give or take). Now on one hand the radical feminists here were blaming me for things that I never said (like if I was against a womans free sexuality lol...), rather than quoting incoherent phrases and missinterprete a whole universe of nonsense into them. Note that I do not have any problems with emancipation, and that I will state this more than 10 times in many ways here in this thread. I thought that it is self explaining, but anyway: Having the opinion on how sexual behaviour is still spread in our world does not automatically mean that I am behaving this way too. It also doesn't mean that I endorse it.
However, if someone feels offended by attractive female heros, how can you at the same time reduce men to sexobjects (menstriptease for example)? If you want female sexuality to be accepted, you should also accept mens sexuality, at least far enough to allow them writing their stories/drawing their pictures with attractive, lightly closed female heros. Why? Maybe this is something many radical feminists will neither understand, nor share in opinion. But men like pretty woman - NOT to reduce them into sex objects, but because they adore them for their beauty. And this is were I - as many others too - start to believe the spread thought about many female extremists:
The first who reduced pretty women to be sexobjects were them, just by tellling they are.
To be fair, of course there are men who are doing this too, by talking condescendingly about them. However, in both cases, jealousy plays a big role. Many feminists are just frustrated about not getting the same attention as pretty woman get. And I bet that everyone wants to be pretty (and to avoit the lame generalization argument: Okay, sorry, not everyone, you for example maybe are happy with looking not attractive. But you are not the rest of the human race!). Actually, by assuming that they are sexobjects, they are deceiving themself to put themself over those attractive women. While men who just "can't have what they want" will be doing so for the same reasons, putting themself over the adored females.
Now to react on Calireayins quote:
If I say I am not a fan of one night stands, it doesn't mean I am a sexist! Not endorsing carefree sex with every next best person is NOT an anti-emanzipated opinion, it is an opinion about sexuality in general. We are not living in the 60ies anymore. Of course, these times helped a lot with the perspective over sexuality, however, it is not as extreme as it was back then anymore. And this also changed most opinions about sex too. Even if you are still living like in the 60ies in your head, other people will still see you in a different way. Something, everybody can have (in this case, something is a person's body!!) is losing its worth. Also, it is a sign of losing respect over the human body, it is what makes them start to treat each other as sexobjects, and - the most important, ONS can have consequences. One of them are deseases like HIV.Bullshit. You want to know why women can't have sex or enjoy sexy things as casually as men do?
Because female sexuality is shamed, downplayed, and largely sodding well ignored in mass media. Because of the very point of this thread, as Spiritvanished found out, that women are heavily sexualized and objectified while their own sexuality is erased. Because of the virgin/not-virgin dichotomy, where women are expected to look sexy but act as if they don't know what sex is. Because just being a woman and admitting that you have a sex drive is enough to get you treated like dogshit in 90% of the world.
Not, and let me be clear on this, because women don't want to see sexy men. Again, see the Chippendales. See the colossal slash fiction subculture that's been going on since the '70s. See the huge popularity of romance books, which is possibly the only socially acceptable form of porn for women out there right now.
Women don't embrace or display their sexuality because they face a hell of a lot of punishment for it.
Beside the fact I have never said that women don't want to see sexy men, seriously those facts by Calireayin... everybody already knows it, everybody heard it by now over a hundred times, and everybody should by now accept it. At least, I do. But did you ever try to figure out why this really continues nowadays?
Of course there are men who talk condescendingly about their ONS afterwards in front of their male friends. That is however just another reason why I am against ONS. Because this is a possible consequence, if you decide to sleep with somebody who you didn't know well enough before: The person who you had sex with could blame you for sleeping with him/her afterwards.
Men can start talking condescending about their ONS in front of their male comrades. But women and men are a lot the same. Women talk about sex too. And they also blame the guys they slept with. Of course women aren't usually telling men about such things, like who they slept with, how many people they slept with etc. But are men doing so? Are men telling women about how many girls they had in bed? Usually this is not the case. Women don't want to hear such things. So this is definately not an argument.
However, when telling somebody about your last nights ONS, there are many possible reactions.
These are examples:
- Not interesting. Those things should be kept for oneself;
- Rivalry - the others tell about their own sexual experiences too;
- The friends of the person who told about the ONS will be delighted for him/her;
- And whatever possible other reactions.
Now however, there is a possible reaction that usually happens under females:
- The female aquantiances will be jealous. They were not getting the good looking man's attention, he just had eyes for their female buddy. And on top of that, she boasts around with it now, she is the one who was adored. The reaction is angry offense - she will be treated as a sl*t.
Actually, the last possible reaction is imho the most important for what I try to point out.
What is this all meaning?
Women are making other women to sexobjects as much as men, women are taking away their own freedom in sexuality as much as men.
Edit: Clariefied what is my opinion and what not.