Last edited by Medusoid; November 12th, 2011 at 11:03 PM.
Okay, so im a guy that thought for a long time to moving to japan to work in the entertainment industry over there... let me tell you why i changed my mind, if you do some research, you'll learn that work in japan is unbelievably atrocious, you will work endless hours.. and get paid minimum wage... you will sleep at your office night after night for just couple of hrs and start working again, sure they make epic games and animations.. but the employees suffer so much dude.. maybe is bearable for japanese because they might be used to it already, cause of her schooling system being so tough and long hrs too, you? you'll probably feel in hell.
Now, if you think you can just go there and get your manga published, think again, thats unbelievably hard too, cause "Gaijins" are not really likely to get into manga writing, why? well, they much prefer a citizen with perfect japanese language knowledge to do that, even if by miracle your japanese was native lvl and your ideas better, they'd still choose the citizen, why? again, you are a Gaijin, when it comes to jobs, japanese people are rather racist, so good luck with getting published let alone finding a team of artist to produce the manga.
( the gaijin deal applies to games too )
After i found out about all this, well, lets just say that i do wanna live a comfortable life doing what i love.
Now, i dont tell you this to get you down and crash your dreams, cause dude, you can pull it off with enough work.. no doubt about that.. but.. just know, that you are going to go through all kinds of hells to get there.. AND, even when you do, you'd still be in hell because of Japanese work life.
Did i just read this somewhere in the internet and took it for true? yea, partly, how am i sure about all this crap? cause i have many japanese friends going to the same school as me, that have working experience in the entertainment industry in japan, and are doing everything as possible not to go back to that world for reasons already stated.
so there my 2 cents.. good luck buddy.
There's one guy who seems to have made some success with a comic published in Japan. I think he's black, too.
I can't remember his name or the book, but it was eventually licensed by Vertical, making it go full circle. I remember it being really vulgar and raunchy, though.
I think the name began with a "P". I'll try to look.
EDIT: Peepo Choo, by Felipe Smith, published through Kodansha's Morning Two.
I remember this guy. He was one of the people that were first published through Tokyopop (the book was MBQ) before that one thing happened and everything went to hell. So he ended up being a legit manga artist in every sense of the word. Good for him, I guess.
They say you cannot choose where and when are born; we are gifted into the worlds are parents are living at the time. Whether a blessing or a curse, as individuals we must make the most of our environments to advance as best possible given the circumstances present. For the cast of Peepo Choo, their places of birth, whether they be the suburbs of Tokyo or the South Side of Chicago, appear to be a curse they cannot escape...until they realize the world is a much smaller place than they thought.
On the surface Milton appears to be your average a high school student living in the thugged out streets of Chicago's South Side. As is the case with many teens looks can be deceiving. When he's not at school or riding the metro, he is at the local comic shop cosplaying as his favorite Japanese animation character Peepo Choo! A hardcore fan, Milton knows every line from the Peepo Choo animation by heart. He can happily replicate the Peepo Dance with ease, and genuinely believes the world depicted in this cartoon is "the real" Japan.
On the other side of the Pacific lives Reiko. A teenage model on the rise, she also has another side of her. Reiko is a feminist working hard to someday move overseas to a place where she could be treated equally and fairly by men and women. In Japan, Reiko feels she is a teenage sex object, and after a number of interactions with young Americans in Tokyo she begins to believe that her American dream is going to be painfully similar to her worst Japanese nightmares.
Chance would bring the two teens together. But in this case fate comes in the form of the underworld!
Last edited by Psychotime; November 10th, 2011 at 02:18 AM.
@Psychotime: Im not exactly sure what you mean by that mate.
@Farvus: I'm taking classes now, I'm not planning on making any decisions on this for at least 4 more years.
@Rem92: I now that the culture is very prideful but I know a few people from Japan and I feel like as long as you don't act like your better or should get different treatment you can slide by just fine with out too much discrimination. But everywhere has racism right, not just Japan. I hear what your saying about the hours though and I want to just say that honestly money is the last of my priorities, as long as I'm doing what I love I'll be happy. But yeah the hours are mush more demanding or so I've heard. I don't want to shut it down just yet but I feel like people kinda view Japan as an all or nothing deal, it's either been described to me as absolutely amazing or the worst place on earth, so it's hard to formulate an idea from such extreme perspectives, yah know what I mean?
@Psychotime: Yeah, it seems odd but it seems much easier to make money off porn than anything else, though maybe it's just the culture.
@TinyBird: I'm not going to be able to change the business ethic that pretty much defines the US, and I'm not trying to. American companies prioritize sales and profits over every other aspect with out fail, other countries still consider revenue as a big chunk of the decision but not the end all deal maker. I want a company who would back my ideas in a way that allows the story to be told properly not in the way that saves the most money. Also, American or Western comics are far less realistic and profitable than Japan which the comic culture is very much alive in. You have to be stupid or have crazy good connections and skills to think you can get anywhere in this comic industry and the gaming industry is beginning to do the same unfortunately.
Thank you all, this really helps open new doors for things I need to consider and research before making any big decisions.
Well, then you better start your own company, but trust me, saving money may become a big deal very fast. Same goes for the "I want to just say that honestly money is the last of my priorities", money will become quite a big priority when you may get kicked out of your house. Sure, people don't go into games or comics because they want lots of money from it, but (unless you're already having a part-time job, and paying your own bills, rent and food) sooner or later you'll start to put money bit higher on your priorities.I want a company who would back my ideas in a way that allows the story to be told properly not in the way that saves the most money.
Not to mention, the word "properly" makes me wonder what you consider to be a "proper" way of telling a story in a game. Especially considering you say Japan puts most care into their stories, which kinda makes me think (I may be wrong here) that you consider lots of dialog and cutscenes as the "proper" way of telling a story in a a game, when in fact it's really not.
If you really want to do games, I suggest you really study actual game design, and not just writing and storytelling. And I suggest you to watch these videos if you haven't:
...That's a quite a big sweep there. Yes, mainstream superhero comics aren't very realistic, but neither are mainstream magical girl or fighting manga. You're basically ignoring every other type of western comic out there, from underground to biography comics, and I'd argue that western comics have become even more varied and profitable with the rise of webcomics and self-publications, which give much more easier access to comic circles. Not to mention comic culture is very alive in other places too, like in France. And I'm pretty sure they get paid better there too.Also, American or Western comics are far less realistic and profitable than Japan which the comic culture is very much alive in.
Basically what these people are telling you is that that it's not that simple. It never is. But you should follow whatever dream you have, and you will learn it all the hard way, which will probably be good for you.
I do think that if you really want to tell stories, tell stories. The medium is less important. Video games in their current popular form are kind of a second-rate storytelling vehicle IMO. Like Tinybird said, start writing some damn comics! Or get some pals together and really try pushing the limits of storytelling in the game medium in new directions. Don't just try to get a job imitating your favorite games of the past, that is a dead end.
Right now, I'm thinking story and gameplay are in direct opposition to one another no matter what country's churning these games out. Story's always either impeding the flow of a game (or serving as an outright substitute for good gameplay, when there are other mediums more suited for storytelling), or it's such a trifle that you wonder why anyone bothered to begin with. I hope you have some great ideas for integrating the two, because there aren't very many people who seem to have this figured out!
I don't think you're looking at the right medium here, but you've got me curious. What games are inspiring you on this? I only ever see western games getting praise for their narrative.
@TinyBird: Dude, I get what your saying, really. But for example if I have no faith in my self that I will one day be president, than odds are that I won't. However, I have no interest in becoming the leader of a nation, so why should I believe I can do something I don't want to do? If I were to try and change things like your saying, I would have to dedicate a big chunk of my life just to get people to notice me, and I really don't care enough about the business esq. culture of the US when there are places that I would much rather live out there.
I think you misunderstood me, and I'm not trying to start anything, but what your saying is a bit hypocritical. If you say my statement is too presumptuous, and then say my opinion is wrong and yours is right, it's hard to stay calm. Anyhow, my wording was kinda vague so I apologize. By "properly", I did not mean that the story is bad or that only japan can make good story lines, I meant that here in the US, shortcuts are taken into consideration to cut costs. The writers aren't the problem, its the business side of companie's inability to see past the price tag.
Again I was being too vague with my wording here, but no need to get upset dude. I didn't mean the plot was un-realistic, I meant that the chances of getting anywhere in the industry here was unrealistic. I'm not one of those people who nitpicks fiction for accuracy. As for other countries, I've grown up with a love for Japan, and although France may be ideal for the job, I just don't think I would be as happy there, I know nothing of the culture, my peers share my interest in Japan, and yadda yadda you get the point.
@Mickeymao: I know man, I know. I'm not asking questions just so I can say that the answers offered are wrong. I know it's not going to be easy, I was just looking for advice if anyone had it to offer.
Yes, agree with you here as well, while I would really like to design video games, I'm not so tunnel visioned that I refuse to look elsewhere to express my ideas. So no worries mate.
I actually am writing a comic atm, and while I don't have time to do more than a page a week due to college I'm still working with it and expanding. And I don't actually have any friends interested in going into video games specifically, but I get what your saying.
I saw, and you really aren't showing too much promise in mastering Japanese since even your own comic site is riddled with typos and the visual storytelling is pretty shoddy.I actually am writing a comic atm
That was done in the UK, if I know correctly. So yeah.As for examples, there is the new Deus Ex
And that's just on top of the fact that he's a real life example of an American who made it doing comics in Japan. It's still incredibly unlikely, but I don't want to commit intellectual dishonesty by claiming you have no chance living your dream of making manga in Japan.
It's a pretty naive dream that you'll probably grow out of, but there's proof that it's possible.
Last edited by Psychotime; November 11th, 2011 at 07:56 PM.
@Tiny Bird: Alright dude your being really rude. Can you please leave.
If your going to be rude with out provocation, thats fine but please do it else where.
Yes, I like Japan, but that does not make me a blind fan boy for it. I enjoy an enormous variety of media from all over the world, it's just that if I'm going to move continents I would like it to be somewhere I am sure I like.
ok dude, what ever you say. I'm more than open to constructive crit, but flat out trying for a rise is kinda irritating. Offer examples and suggestions instead of insults.
If deuse ex was made in canada, than thats on me. But its published by square enix and they are based in Japan.
@Psychotime: Dude can you just say what you need to with out making me seem inferior? I would like to talk calmly. I will say that all the japanese games are not the best plots but they produce a crap load of games and so your chances of junk goes up, any way I was talking more about their stories in general not exclusively videogames.
I actually am between classes and so no I didn't get a full look at what you said and it seemed like you were agreeing from what I skimmed. I was wrong and Im sorry, but dude I wasnt mocking you, or saying anything you said was faulty. I was making an observation on the image and past events. Not what you said. I'm sure you'll say that I should be more careful with my words before I talk, but honestly I was not expecting to be attacked by most of the people who responded. Im not dumb, Im not some trolling kid, I am open to reason, and Im human, so Im sorry about that.
@Flashback: Thats fine dude, Im not saying what you like is wrong, just that I don't like many of the games that come out of the US story wise. I have my opinion and you have yours, and thats cool. Thanks for not flipping out on me like some of the others who responded ^^
@Ossiferous Rex!: Yeah, sorry that was on me mate.
Guys, please don't attack what I'm saying.
Im not looking for an "Im smarter than this guy" debate. Just some solid advice for a novice artist if your willing.
Last edited by Medusoid; November 11th, 2011 at 08:34 PM.
Post it on the Critique section, and trust me, I will.ok dude, what ever you say. I'm more than open to constructive crit, but flat out trying for a rise is kinda irritating. Offer examples and suggestions instead of insults.
You're asking if something very hard to do and extremely unlikely to happen is possible, and when we say it's hard and unlikely, you get angry? I'm sorry if that's not what you wanted to hear, but it's the truth.Guys, please don't attack what I'm saying.
Im not looking for an "Im smarter than this guy" debate. Just some solid advice for a novice artist if your willing.
Well, here's some advice: start practicing at what you want to do. Ignore any thoughts about what country you want to work in and concentrate on practicing the job you want to get. If you want to work in games, start studying games, practicing game design, writing for games etc etc, don't leave it to "I'm gonna sit in Japan for years doing nothing game related and then someone will get me to the game industry, somehow". If you make yourself a good game designer/writer/whatever in the start you'll be much more likely to get a job in either country.
That isn't what you said before.I will say that all the japanese games are not the best plots but they produce a crap load of games and so your chances of junk goes up, any way I was talking more about their stories in general not exclusively videogames.
In the last few years any circle that talks about the current state of Japanese pop culture (namely comics and cartoons for this topic) will usually go to the topic of the Moe genre which is popping up everywhere and putting a stranglehold on the business because it's easy to write and appeals to the lowest common denominator. But it makes money, and more series of it's kind will be popping up until the fad dies.
It's a common complaint from serious animation directors that they have to make the regurgitated ugly crap that's promised to sell instead of making works that they genuinely want to make in order to stay afloat in this economy.
No one here is attacking you or insulting you. You're just too sensitive. It honestly makes me wonder how you act in the critique center.I actually am between classes and so no I didn't get a full look at what you said and it seemed like you were agreeing from what I skimmed. I was wrong and Im sorry, but dude I wasnt mocking you, or saying anything you said was faulty. I was making an observation on the image and past events. Not what you said. I'm sure you'll say that I should be more careful with my words before I talk, but honestly I was not expecting to be attacked by most of the people who responded. Im not dumb, Im not some trolling kid, I am open to reason, and Im human, so Im sorry about that.
EDIT: And it turns out you've never made a thread there.
Last edited by Psychotime; November 11th, 2011 at 09:12 PM.
-I never said that it did make it a good game... I was admitting to a mistake. I said it was Japanese, I was wrong, and I said that I thought it was Japanese because its publisher is from Japan. Just explaining my logic.
-Im not uploading that anywhere new but it's posted on three sites that all allow criticism. Or you could note me but I'm honestly not willing to keep putting it up and resizing and copying and all. However feel free to do as you see fit.
-No, Im asking for advice, I already know anything could happen. but what your describing is not what happened at all. Go back and look at your word choice, it's demeaning. There are plenty of ways to have a level discussion without escalating. I got mad because you are talking down to me and insulting things I like when I didn't ask about that. I would like to move there, and if thats not your first choice thats ok, but its getting off topic. If one little thing is brought into the discussion, than it quickly gets away form the original idea as Im sure you know better than me.
-Now I do appreciate that last part you said. This is what I was looking for, straight forward, non-condescending tone, and some valid points. So thank you for that last bit.
Yes, getting into Japan is incredible hard as a foreigner. So if you really want to getting that business.
First learn Japanese
Second start your own Project in your country first and gather experience.
Third, try to find a job in the game industry in the states first. Its already hard enough to get into this industry at the first place let alone going to Japan.
If you have faith and already doing those things, I am sure you will have your opportunity eventually.
I have learned not to crit in other places than in the Crit forum (not to mention you'd get other's opinions on it too). Just post couple pages and link to the rest, that should do it.Im not uploading that anywhere new but it's posted on three sites that all allow criticism.
I'm not dissing your desire to move to Japan (rem92 already explained why that might be hard too), just your apparent attitude that everything's impossible in the US but Japan is a magical land of possibilities (without any actual reasoning from your part on that) that you are sure you'd love to live in, though I'm guessing you haven't actually visited that place for a longer time (which in turn makes it hard to say whether you like the actual place or the idea of the place you have in your head). And like Psychotime said, that comes off as really naive which on other hand grates my personal nerves, same as the "changing something requires effort, so I'm not gonna try".Go back and look at your word choice, it's demeaning.
I would like to move there, and if thats not your first choice thats ok,
...not sure where that happened, but okay.insulting things I like when I didn't ask about that.
I'm still not sure why you want to move?
Your reasons seem very insubstantial.
You have all these goals:
"So after college I want to move to Japan and teach for several years or until I settle."
Teach what? Exactly?
Besides, I think you're going to need something more to show.
I mean, you have: not 1, not 2, but 3 long-term goals.
As I see it, you want to teach at a Japanese school, be a game-designer, and comic-book artist/author.
"I worked six days a week, each day with a different schedule."
"We only got paid for our classroom hours and not our lesson planning time. I was also expected to travel to different schools, sometime between lessons, that time wasn't paid for either."
"The students (and many of the teachers) clean the classrooms, hallways, bathrooms and gardens."
"Foreign teachers can only work at the school for a maximum of three years."
And again, this isn't to say that you can never be a teacher in Japan, just that it's more than likely that it's going to be much harder than doing the same in US and if you're planning on writing your manga during teaching, you'll be likely to have very little time for it. And if you're planning on being a freelancer teacher, then you're most likely going to need another job on top of that. And preferably experience of teaching.
Last edited by TinyBird; November 12th, 2011 at 09:49 AM.
@Psychotime: Alright, but I felt like what was being said was excessively critical for what I asked. I have no clue why every topic on this forum has to be an argument when I in no way indicated that was what I wanted. You can say I'm being overly sensitive, I honestly don't mind, but its the multiple people talking down to me and I was not prepared for that, so yes I got kinda defensive. If I was looking for crit I would have no problems with harsh tones but I wasn't.
Ok, if I didn't say that I was speaking in reference to stories in general, rather than just video games, than it slipped my mind, but I meant to say it.
-seriously dude why are you scrutinizing everything I'm saying? If you feel I'm wrong, than ok but move on. Lingering on about mistakes isn't the what I want to discuss. I am hearing you out but referencing what Im saying like that is just not necessary. Im willing to listen without being talked to about every little mistake. Yes I know the money still matters thats a fantasy to think you can make what ever you like and have it endorsed, however the culture is not one to produce crap just to make that extra buck. You know about disney channel right? That is the biggest example of money over quality I can think of. But I must point out a few animes, (and these are very rare cases but they still happened) Shows like Hellsing Ultimate, and High School of the Dead, pull in a fare amount of money, but they are so high budget that they only come out on a monthly basis if that. This is not nearly profitable as just slapping together some shoddy animation and getting it done quick but it does the story justice. So yes I know Japan's not perfect but it seems preferable to me.
@Tinybird: Thank you. I respect that and understand your hesitance considering I often am on DA and know what can happen if you offer crit to the wrong people. I might put it up but like I said it is kind of a pain (not just this time, I have had to upload and screw with these pages like you wouldn't believe to get them up properly) I would like to point out though that this is my first ever attempt at writing a comic, and I'm using it as a learning experience more than anything so I am very aware I have allot of mistakes.
If Im being naive though, why should that bother you? Im here asking for ideas, so yeah of course Im unknowledgeable about allot of things.
I think your missing the point when I said that Im not willing to try. I actually am getting kinda frustrated that you wont listen to me. I don't have any desire to make that kind of commitment, its not in my interests. Its the same as me asking you why you wont change the culture, your just as able if not more so than myself, so why not? Im just making a point but you get what I mean right?
@Flashback: No, thats not really what I meant, I want to teach as a temporary job just so I am making money when I get there. Im not planning on making a career out of it. I want to teach English, its not uncommon and I know at least three people who have done the same. I want to make media based stories for a living, and which media is not crucial but I like and understand video games. But video games aren't something you just decide to make and than you get offered a top floor office, I'd have to work up to it. I want to teach as a way to get a foothold while Im there and than move on once my contract expires.
@Tinybird: I know a few people who taught in Japan and thoroughly enjoyed it. I don't know where these horror stories derive from but on the whole it seems like people go in with the wrong mentality of "Im going to get filthy rich form this in a year and then I'll retire to the Bahamas."
If I do this, I know it would be hard, everything worth doing generally is.
I want to make a point of saying this. I am asking for advice, but if I have to repeatedly defend myself than nothing is really getting done except blood boiling. Am I wrong?
You do know that at least Hellsing Ultimate is not just an anime series, it's an OVA series, right? As in direct-to-video things? So obviously they get more budget and time over regular series, much like the Western direct-to-video sequels. Try watching some less known adaptation series, and suddenly you'll notice just how much you can re-use footage and talking heads thanks to the lack of lipsync (Requiem from the Darkness being a good example, though it's still one of my favorites. The later episodes of Yōkai Ningen Bem too, as they did the cliche of blowing their budget with the first episode, and filled the later ones with as much talk as they could).shows like Hellsing Ultimate, and High School of the Dead, pull in a fare amount of money, but they are so high budget that they only come out on a monthly basis if that.
And I don't mind people asking questions, but like said, your naivety seems to be obscuring your common sense here, pretty much visible with all this "my plan is awesome, anything negative you say about Japan I don't listen, why don't you listen to meee". You just end up being whiny and looking even more immature. Especially when you present your thoughts like the one in my first quote as some sort of facts, and you still haven't really rationalized why you think these things are true.If Im being naive though, why should that bother you? Im here asking for ideas, so yeah of course Im unknowledgeable about allot of things.
Why do you think I'm doing comics myself? I like comics, but comics are hugely uncared for in my country, which is why I'm striving to do comics that I like in hopes of getting more variation to the general comics of my place, and support other good comics in here.Its the same as me asking you why you wont change the culture, your just as able if not more so than myself, so why not?
And I'm not saying one can't enjoy teaching in Japan, even the woman I linked you to did, but were those people also trying to break into the videogame industry and write their manga series at the same time? Do you enjoy teaching yourself?I know a few people who taught in Japan and thoroughly enjoyed it.
Last edited by TinyBird; November 12th, 2011 at 04:49 PM.
-Your arguing with yourself. The dtv is irrelevant, the story is told with respect. And yes I have seen that before, if you have ever liked quality animation you have seen it. Reusing footage is to cut costs in a squeeze, I know Japan is not some golden egg of perfection. I do not ever expect to be given every freedom and all the time and money I need for things. I get it.
-Ok dude, why are you so angry? Im trying to be agreeable here, while your flat out insulting me, can you do me the same curtsy before calling me immature.
-I wont say what I would like to because it wont help anyone and it would probably make you mad. But I dont agree.
-No they were not, what does that have to do with anything? Yes, I would love the chance to teach, I've done art lessons for kids a few times and I like it.
I think re-using footage is a pretty common thing with most animations since it saves a lot of time, so I can't really see it as a "in a squeeze" thing.Reusing footage is to cut costs in a squeeze, I know Japan is not some golden egg of perfection. I do not ever expect to be given every freedom and all the time and money I need for things. I get it.
As for getting it, I don't think you really do, but this is something that you probably won't fully realize until you get your job.
I call them as I see them. Also really, if you're planning on teaching English or writing as a job, polish up your grammar, really.can you do me the same curtsy before calling me immature.
Because you seem to be using the "some people liked it" as a straight justification to your situation, when judging by your own post, it wouldn't necessarily apply. Teaching English may become pretty irritating if it's not what you want to really do. Loving a chance to teach or doing some kid lessons won't give you the experience to know. I quoted what I quoted about teaching in a Japanese school, to say that if you wanted to teach in an actual school it would be a full time job and more (same with the fact that just occasional teaching might not bring enough money to solely support you) because your plan of teaching and doing manga is pretty much the equivalent of "work a real job and do art on weekends and after work" thing, which generally proves to be ten times harder than expected when you're actually doing work full time, except that you want to complicate this even further by going to a country that's likely to expect even more work hours.-No they were not, what does that have to do with anything? Yes, I would love the chance to teach, I've done art lessons for kids a few times and I like it.
@Tinybird: Alright dude, thank you for the two salvageable sentences worth of advice in this entire thread, which you so generously saw required your holy opinion. You are a troll, and I am done speaking with you.