Eternal question.... (Repost)

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by Jaku:

Hi all,

First of all I´d like to excuse me for my low english level, I don´t know if I´ll be able to explain...., but anyway, here it goes.... :o

I´d like to know if you think it´s neccesary to study in an art school, I mean, can you learn enough by yourself working hard every day in your drawing and painting skills?, or in a school they´ll give you information that you can´t get anywhere more?
I´m thinking on getting a digital camera and take photos everywhere to observate light, textures, mood.... Do you think it´s a good idea??

excuse me again for my poor use of english, I hope you could understand what I want to say.

Thanks

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by ken:

your english is perfectly understandable, jaku. i don't go to art school myself, but until someone who does replies... what i've heard is that art school isn't necessary to develop your skills - but you almost NEED to a degree to get a job.

using a digital camera is a good idea. the more you examine your surroundings the better your art will be.

-Ken

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by Jaymz:

That is one of the eternal questions for art students.

Here're some of the quick advantages and disadvantages:

Advantages

*You are in a focused, art environment. If you are a full time art student, this means you will spend that majority of the day having SOMETHING to do with art. This is good for people who need to would otherwise get distracted.

*You surround yourself with people just as eager to learn as you and you end up pushing each other. Many of these students will be some friends you'll have well after school is over. (Of course, this does not just pertain to art school.

Android, Kevin, Jason, SDbarber, and some others...we all went to the school. In one way or another, we all pushed each other and then, after we graduated, we all went off to do our own thing, but we've still managed to keep up with each other. It's also likely that our careers will intersect again as well.

Take a look at Jason Manley's 'Ringling' post on this forum.

*Depending on the school, your instructors are working professionals. They will have insights for you that you might not otherwise recieve if you are completely self taught. You can learn some of this from a book, but it's still no replacement for hands-on learning.

*Also depending on the school, they might have a department that helps you locate a job after school. My company makes annual recruiting trips to a few art schools and those students have a larger chance of getting interviews than students without that background.

Just to give you an idea...at our company, I'd say over 90% of the artists have had training in art school.

Disadvantages

*Cost. It is VERY expensive these days. Not just tuition, but supplies and material. Try to get a grant of scholarship or you'll be paying loans for years and years.

*Art School itself will not TEACH you how to draw or paint. Art instructors can't even do that. All the work is still self motivated. You have to do all your own research. You have to draw and paint and practice and draw and paint all on your own.

*There's no guarantee of work after school. Art School is a complete investment. Physically, mentally, professionally. You should KNOW that you can make it. Be honest with yourself early on... Ask yourself "Can I make it"? "Am I willing to work hard for this"? To be honest with you, the majority of graduating students this year are still looking for work. It is a ver competitive atmosphere. I still get emails and calls almost daily from talented students looking for work. So prepare yourself for this.

================================================

So that's about all I have to say. So if you ARE going to art school, just be prepared and do your research on what school you want to go to. Some schools focus more on Illustration...others on 3D art. So give it a lot of thought.

-Jaymz

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by Jason Manley:

nice job james!

The only thing I want to add is this....it isnt the degree that gets you the job..its the portfolio.

I learn better from others than on my own. I learn by watching...especially when Im first starting out....once I know something a little bit then I learn well on my own. Because of this. art school was invaluable.

HOWEVER...my best teacher was at a community college in Mesa Arizona. I still do what he told me to do...every single day I use the traditional skills he pushed on me.

Many of my friends in the professional art fields are people I went to school with. That kind of history is also invaluable...but it can be created in other ways.

there is no substitute for drawing from life in the classroom setting. Not only do you get to see how everyone else sees but you get directed in understanding what you yourself are seeing. I had fifteen semesters of figure classes and would not at all give one of them away if I could.

you can grassroots it if you so choose...it will just be a more challenging path and it will require much more self motivation...

it is possible to go to art school and not learn squat....I have many friends from school who never got an art job at all...they just didnt work hard enuff. ...classes skipped...drawings unfinished...party party....not a good way to go to school...

good luck


j

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by Jaku:

many many thanks to all of you for all the advices.

But to tell you the truth is not only the things you said that make me think. If I had a time machine I´d study art with no doubts but in my actual situation it´s hard to chose. I really want to study art and work in that field but....

First of all I have to know what kind of school are here, in spain (going to another country would supose a +++disavantage, costs, language,...)
Second: I´ve 24 years old, a bit old to start studing again, at least that´s what I feel
And at last, I´d have to leave my actual job...

Many many things agaisnt me...
That´s the thing because I really wanted to know if an art degree is really necesary.

Sorry for using you like the "hope phone" but I really needed and advice with this.

Thanks a lot to all of you, and again sorry for my poor english (i´m trying to learn) and for being so boring... Thanks

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by Jaymz:

"...if an art degree is really necesary"

Nope! It's not. It's all on the strength of your work. (And a little bit about who you know. ) So just think hard on how you want to approach this. Do lots of research! 24? That's nothing! A lot of people get started later than that! And stop being so critical about your english. Everyone understands you fine.

-J

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by jezelf:

I anwsered a similar post over at www.sijun.com Here

I didnt get to do a degree (though not out of trying) and generally self taught. there is stuff you'll learn at art schools that is worth the time as mentioned here, above.

I did study up to a degree level, though, and I have managed to do a fair share of life drawing, and what you learn in that alone is invaluable. I can never do enough and always miss doing it.

l would say the biggest lesson Ive learn is to simply observe. look and look some more - about everything, light, form, negative space, perspective the lot. Everytime you go out and about the information is everywhere.Photos Are ok - any refernce is better than no reference I find (because you see a lot of work where people draw what they think is right not what is right) but drawing from life is best because you have more of a sense of depth in 3D.

It all depends on your circumstances. if your really want to do it, you'll do it -'where theres a will - theres a way'. having not done a dregree, I think Ive missed out on the whole atmosphere and the wealth of knowlege that is in the air there.

I was self movitvated and it was an everyday thing - weekends dont stay 'weekends' just another day when you're drawing. I thinkyou need a strong goal if you're not doing a degree, because theres more self-motivation involded and a lot of the time you're isolated with people around you telling you you're going nowhere - of course you don't listen to them but believe in yourself and follow your heart.

well I hope Ive been of some help.
good luck, Jaku.
best wishes
Jez

p.s - Jaymz is right - 24 is nothing, and a true artist never stops learning anyway, doesnt matter if you're 24 or 204!

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by Jaku:

Thanks again

incredible motivation here!!!
you guys make me feel like there´re no limits.
I will start working hard, from now and lets see what happens... we always have a Mcdonals were we can work, dont we??

Thanks again to all of you for motivation and advices, and for make me feel that thet really important thing is the desire of doing something (very romantic, but true i think).

Thanks!!

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by amphex:

Hmmm, Im wondering. For all the professional artists here, did Art college really help you further your artistic abilities considerably? If you know your not as good as the rest of the people in the field you wish to study, should you go to an art school anyways? As in, will it really help you that much?

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by Jason Manley:

when I started I was the worst in my class. I did not start drawing until I was twenty. I learned the majority of what I know in art school (though most was with a painter at a community college...the best teacher I had)....all of what I learned came from my own self motivation.

do you have what it takes to learn as fast as you can? can you focus and pursue learning to the fullest? willing to sacrefice your social life for a few years?



j

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by sdbardber:

i was going through my boxes of paperwork the other day, and i came across my college transcripts from 1988-90-
i was 18 years old and enrolled in community college taking commercial art-
my gpa for 18 months of higher education was 1.56...
i was not ready for any sort of committment to anything other than self indulgence through drugs and alcohol. i was full of myself and thought that i had nothing to learn.
i was wrong-
it took me several more years of travelling aimlessly around the country, working odd jobs (none of which had anything to do with art) until i realized that i had to take responsiblity for myself and seriously pursue a career in the arts-
i was into comicbooks then, and decided to go back to school- 1996, and i now had an obsession with self improvement- two years at a private school in upstate ny, about 300 art students, it was a wise decision, going back to school- and being primarily a liberal arts college- i was surrounded by various other intellects-
i then transferred to an art school for my last two years- and it was there, that i engulfed myself in art history, life drawing and painting.
here- i was around MANY artists. out of appx. 1000 art school students, there were about 150 artists- give or take 10or 20. i became friends with these artists, and their drive, work ethic and motivation pushed me significantly further than i'd ever been. of these 150 or so artists, i'm still in some form of contact with half of them. we see each others work in our chosen professional realms, and it pushes us all to work harder. i would have never been where i am today if it were not for the friends that i have that are artists. i've learned more from them and art history than any teacher or school. period. unfortunately- this opportunity is the greatest through an art school education- you pay to be around your peers. yes, art school is obnoxiously expensive, and yes- i owe more money than i can handle.
but money comes, and money goes- i could never place a price on my own self improvement through the experiences that i had in art school.
kevin, andrew, jason and james- these are 4 of the artists that i went to school with and i would not be who i am or where i am if it were not for the knowledge and motivation that we have all shared with each other...

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by Jason Manley:

nicely said mr barber...good to see some good honest and open discussion going on.

I was on a similar path myself.

This site would not exist if I had not gone to art school. everyone here comes from a connection related to that experience.

j

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by jamesbradford:

i am about 2 weeks away from completing my softmore year in art school. art schools are definetely worth it, you are surrounding yourself with people like yourself, and you have recources availible to you when you need them. however, art schools arent going to help you improve, the only person who can do that is yourself. i see a lot of students here who party a lot, and their work suffers because of it - yes they complete their classes and go on, but every bit of work they produce in the classes did not include effort.

for me i think these 4 years should be time where you are learning and practicing as much as possible. sacrificing your social time is a hard thing for some to deal with but in the end it's really worth it and it will take you farther early on. when going into an artschool you learn early on how the industry will work from your professors to representatives from companies comming to you looking for internships or employement.

having life drawing sessions every friday here as well helps a lot. i hate to see almost none of my friends go to these, the sessions are invaluable to the improvement of your work.

that's about it heh, i was just kinda spewing forth what i thought relevent

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by Jaku:

thanks for share all these experiences!

...but you guys are gonna make my head explode

I´ll start doing a research of what can i do around here you have convinced me. I think that art eviroment you´ve been talking about it´s a good thing

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by amphex:

Wow, thank you guys alot. Your stories have been very inspiring for me =D

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by jng:

Thank you for sharing your experiences, it has been extremely helpful. But it's also a bit worrying. I'm 18 years old and just began my degree in Digital Media.

The thing is my drawing instructor doesn't seem at all like the drawing teachers you describe. All she ever does is point out really obvious mistakes. She doesn't push us at all and I am beginning to question her own ability at drawing. It's almost as if she's just some random artist that is decent at drawing. The so called "advice" she gives us is basically what any person, artistic or not, could point out.

The only benefit of my course is the "art environment". But this environment is totally different to the ones you describe. Here, art is taken in the more 'modern art' sense. In that everyone is interested in being different and making art of ideas (mostly abstraction). Now I know that's a great thing, but the technical side of art seems to have been totally overlooked. The people that surround me aren't extremely art motivated. A lot of them are just people that thought Shrek was a cool movie and hoped to do something in 3d Animation. I don't consider myself a good artist at all, but to be honest, the people around me aren't too crash hot. Upon going to art school I expected there to be hundreds of people that could kick my ass in drawing and really teach me some new things. So far all that I have learnt has been through my own practice.

I am only in my first semester so maybe it will pick up later on. It may sound absolutely terrible, but one of my lecturers saves the whole course. He lectures on the language of digital media. He basically deconstructs popular media and really probes this concept. It really is very enlightening and he is trying to teach us to think more innovatively and creatively.

I don't really know what the point of my post was, just to share an experience I guess. Don't be discouraged though, I go to an art school in Australia, which is most likely a piece of shit compared to the big art schools in America.

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by dmalpert:

Bernie Wrightson never went to art school. Now he is the "master of the macarbe."

I went to California State University Fullerton. same school as Justin Sweet, and Mark Kostabi....two very different artist. Both very popular.

I went to school in the mindset that my degree will not get me a job. My portfolio is what counts. Working with my advisor, we set a course plan for me, a set of classes to either learn new things, expose myself to new materials and styles of work, and to add work to my protfolio.

I just graduated and now trying to tackle the job market.
I liked going to school...It's not for everyone, but i still learned many valuable things, and met some great people

[Pontemonti]

Originally posted by azjohnl:

I agree the portfolio gets the job, but school can be a good way to start getting a volume of work together and learn the basics such as life drawing, color theory, etc. Some instructors will make it worthwhile that you went and i personally think getting my degree is one of the best things i ever did.

[face]

it is MUCH EASIER to go to art school, pretty much because you are given a wide range of briefs and the deadlines are set for you. either meet the deadlines or dont graduate. when the preassure like that is behind you, you become more encouraged to do the work, where as if you learnt by your self, you cant recieve feedback and a self set project could last months when the same amount you produced in that time should could have been done in two weeks. commitments can get in the way of a self set project, you could just keep moving and moving the deadline and before you know it, a year is up and you haven't done much.

that's my own experience, but it is down to the individual's will power i guess.

basicly at the end of the day, you will learn more in a shorter span of time at an artschool. and like someone else said, you need a degree to get a job

[Jason Manley]

i dont have a degree

puddnhead doesnt have a degree

justin kaufman "el coro" doesnt have a degree



shoot..i didnt even finish high school....granted I did put in six years of art school and amassed about 175 credits. one does not get a degree on studio classes, figure classes, and kung fu classes. hahah


the degree doesnt have shit to do with working in the games industry at least...as an artist.

it is about the talent...portfolio...and personality (whether you fit in with the team). that is it.


j

[Jaku]

i´ve been reposted!
and + i´ve been ascended to art squad leader!!!
you made my day


Thanks again to everyone who helped me on this.

My thougts now are that art school it isn´t need but it´s very very helpful if you really want to learn.

THANKS CONCEPTART.ORG!!!

PD: mental note: don´t put so many smilies on your posts your post may be lost..... (aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! it was an incredibly long post.... :bash: :bash: maybe i´ll write it again tomorrow....)

[el coro]

i feel that having a degree in art almost counts against you. it can mean that you lack in skill, but paid the necessary money for some faceless institute to give you a little piece of paper that says you are an artist. i mean thats not the case ALL the time by any means, but i've seen it sooooo much, i guess i'm jaded. i think some schooling is a real bonus, but it really all boils down to portfolio and ability.