Stop listening to Opeth, and start listening to Manowar.
Jake Kobrin, I'm sorry your depressed, everyone is different and we all have our triggers that could make us feel bad or depressed. I was depressed for about 2 years and would basically sleep to escape my reality. I went to a quack shrink in my opinion who said all kinds of things that didn't help at all until one day she said, "why don't you fake it until you make it", it was a simple suggestion that I was able to use. I made myself do the opposite of everything I was doing which was nothing and basically pretended to be having a good time, eventually actually did feel better, that was about ten years ago. Also surrounding yourself with more positive people and things could help. Make yourself better, your the key. Your a great guy! Don't delete the post.
Okay, some of you may be surprised to hear this, or think it disingenuous, but I actually think some advice from Jack Handey would be helpful here - Jake, you've got too many voices of worry and doubt in your head. You need to stop listening to them:
The Voices In My Head
By Jack Handey
I never know when the voices in my head are going to start talking to me. I might be coming out of my apartment and I’ll look up at the clouds. Suddenly, the voices in my head will tell me to go back inside and get an umbrella, because it might rain. Sometimes I’ll obey the voices and go get the umbrella. But sometimes I muster my strength and refuse to get the umbrella. Still, the voices don’t let you forget that you disobeyed them, especially if it rains. They’ll say, “I knew you should have gotten the umbrella. Why didn’t you?”
I don’t expect you to understand what it’s like to have voices in your head telling you what to do. But it is a nightmare I live with all the time. Right now, for instance, the voices are telling me to go back and change the word “nightmare” to “living hell.”
The voices torment me from the time I wake up. They’ll say, “Get up and go to the bathroom to urinate.” Throughout the day, they never let up: “Go get something to eat,” “Go take a nap,” “Go to the bathroom again,” “Get ready for bed.” On and on. Sometimes the voices even talk to me in my sleep, telling me to get up and urinate. My fear is that the voices will tell me to do something crazy, like go look for a job.
I used to think that drinking alcohol would calm the voices, but it usually makes them worse. They’ll say things like “Go tell that person what you really think of him” or “Get up on that table and do your funny cowboy dance.”
The voices used to talk to me about the Beatles. When I was young, they’d tell me to go buy a certain Beatles album. “But I don’t have any money,” I’d say. Then the voices would suggest I mow some lawns to earn some money. “But that’s a lot of work,” I’d say. “Well,” the voices would say, “do you want the album or not?” (Wait. That might have been my father.)
Sometimes I go for relatively long periods without the voices talking to me, such as when I’m watching TV, or watching ants, or lying on the floor and trying to blow lint balls into one big herd of lint. Or seeing which one of my cats is most afraid of “pillowcase head.” But these golden moments are fleeting, and soon the voices return.
I just wish the voices would tell me something useful once in a while, like how to say things in French or where my gloves went. But they hardly ever do. In fact, many times the voices like to taunt me, telling me, for instance, to turn left at an intersection when, it turns out later, I clearly should have turned right. Or telling me to wear a tie that obviously looks ridiculous.
Even worse, sometimes the voices themselves don’t know what they want. They’ll tell me to go up an talk to a pretty woman, then they’ll say, “No, wait, she’s too pretty for you,” then they’ll say, “Oh, go ahead,” then they’ll say, “What if your wife finds out?” (Man, make up your mind!)
When you tell people you have voices in your head, they think you’re crazy. But when you don’t say anything at all, and you just sit there and stare at them, they also think you’re crazy. So you can’t win.
I thought about going to a psychiatrist to get rid of the voices, but the voices said it would be expensive, and would probably take a long time, and that I’d have to put my pants on and go to the subway, then come all the way back on the subway, then take my pants off, and who knows if it would even work? Sometimes the voices have a point.
One day, I decided that I couldn’t take it anymore, and I decided to silence the voices in my head once and for all. But I couldn’t figure out how to do that, so I never did.
Maybe the answer is not to try to get rid of the voices but to learn to live with them. (I don’t really think that; I’m just saying it for the voices.)
Will I ever be able to fully control the voices in my head? Probably not. But will I at least be able to adjust my life style so that the voices are not a threat to me or others? Again, the answer is no.
But I’m not ready to throw in the towel just yet, because one thing I’ve learned is this: the voices may be bossy, but they’re really stupid.
Hey dude, I just wanna say that most folks here gave really good advice. Right now, you might just be in a phase but who knows? All I can say is that always try to see the good in everything, no matter how bad the situation is.
Look closely around you, you think you might have no friends, but I’m pretty sure there’s at least one person out there that you talk to. They are your friends. Online friends here can become real friends too, if you take the effort to meet people. I have personally met a few and I’m really happy that I did.
Always remember that 1 good friend is better than 50 acquaintances “friends”. I see people having a lot of “friends” and then still feel lonely and stuff.
And for love, I don’t know, but I feel that you might be a little young? There’s still a whole lot of time, and many of the people I knew who got together when we were younger, well their relationships did not last, probably due to the fact that we are not mature enough to handle certain situations. It’s better to find to take your time to find the right person, and usually they are right in front of your faces when you are not looking. (in my case anyway.)
Honestly, I’m kinda socially awkward in real life too. (zalxemptyx knows that better than anyone.) Was a loner in secondary school and the only friends I have are people who actually played FFIX and a famous girl in class who took pity of me.
But now he said to me that I’m loud when I’m with people I know, and other see me that way, so I’m seem kinda friendly to them, and usually they’re the ones who start talking. There may be some awkward moments but sometimes I really try my best to get myself to talk to others. Sometimes it’s funny that I can talk to a class of 40 students, but I get terrified talking to a recruiter from an awesome company. It’s a constant struggle, but I have to say that I’m getting better at talking to people.
And if you want to keep the hair, honestly it’s up to you. I feel that if you change your mindset and attitude, people can sense it and you will naturally feel better of yourself, with hair or not. (this is kind of weird for me to say since I shaved a week ago. D: )
Whatever it is - socialising,art,love - always tell yourself that you can pick yourself up again. It’s never over with anything you tried and failed.
Failure is just delay, not defeat.
HAHA IT MAY SEEM DEPRESSING BUT MY BEST FRIEND IS MY DEPRESSION MY SELF LOATHING I USED TO DRINK ALOT AN STARTED WHEN I WAS 12 I SMOKED WEED FOR THE FIRST TIME WHEN I WAS 9 CIGARETTES WHEN I WAS 7 BEFORE I NEW WHAT DRUGS WHERE I WAS RUNNING BAGS DOWN THE STREET I STOLE CARS I BEAT PEOPLE UP I GOT BEAT UP I USED TO STEAL FOOD BECAUSE I WAS HUNGRY I LIVED ON MY OWN WHEN I WAS 16 I QUIT SCHOOL AN GOT A JOB IVE BEEN TAZED AN MACED AN KNOCKED OUT COPS ON SEVERAL OCCATIONS I GOT HERPIES FROM A 26 YR'OLD WOMAN WHEN I WAS FIFTEEN I HAVE NOT BEEN IN A RELATION SHIP SINCE WHEN I WAS A LITTLE KID I GOT TO GO TO YOSEMITE WITH MY GRAND PARENTS I WAS ALWAYS TREATED WITH LOVE BY MY MOM WHO HAS STOLLEN FROM ME COUNTLESS TIMES I SAVED THREE PEOPLES LIVES I HAVE HELPED MANY PEOPLE RADOMLY ON THE STREET I HAVE HURT MANY PEOPLE TO ENDS I DO NOT KNOW I NEVER STUDY IN SCHOOL BUT GOT GOOD GRADES I TRIED TO PUT MY SELF IN SITUATIONS THAT WOULD GET ME KILLED I TRIED TO CHOP MY ARM OFF WITH A BUTCHERKNIFE BUT I COULDNT GET THROUGH THE BONE ON A DRUNK'N DARE I NEVER MET MY DAD I HAD AN AWSOME STEPDAD FER 3 YRS THAT STILL WANTS TO BE APART OF MY LIFE I BARRICADED MYSELF IN A TERRIBLE JOB HOPING I WOULD JUST DISAPPEAR MY MOM ALMOST DIED TWICE THIS PAST YEAR NEEDED EMERGENCY SURGERY SHE HAD TO MOVE IN WITH ME MULTIPLE TIMES I GOT EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH TWICE OUTA 900 IN 5 YRS AN GOT LAID OFF THE NEXT MONTH I CASHED IN MY RETIREMENT I PAID HER BILL I HAVE NO MONEY BUT I MAKE A DECENT WAGE I HAVE THREE FRIENDS I DONT TALK TO I HAVE 2 AN A HALF YRS SOBER I HAVE ALL THE AWESOME FRIENDS I MET ON CA I HAVE GOALS I HAVE FEAR OF SUCCESS I OFTEN FEAR PEOPLE WILL LIKE ME IF I TOLD A WOMAN OF MY STD AN SHE WOULD EXCEPT ME THEN I WOULD BE GIVING IT TO SOMEONE I CARED ABOUT I ONLY HOLD PEOPLE BACK THEY WOULD HAVE TO DEAL WITH MY INSANITY I AM CRAZYER WHEN IM NOT ON DRUGS I AM DIRTY I HAVE LONG FINGERNAILS AN TOE NAILS THAT ARE JAGGED MY SKIN IS STAINED WITH METAL I HAVE MY DOG WHICH WAS MY MOMS THAT SHE ABANDONED AT MY HOUSE THAT IS MY LITTLE BROTHER SHE LEFT HIM TWICE AN THEN TOKE HIM BACK I USED TO GET BEAT UP IN SCHOOL BECAUSE I WOULDNT ALLOW MY FRIENDS TO BE PICKED ON I HONESTLY THINK I KNOW EVERYTHING I CANT SHUT MY SELF UP AN SOMETIMES I DONT TALK AT ALL I CAN TYPE THIS FOREVER BUT IM GUNNA GO WATCH THAT ZOMBIE LAND MOVIE INSTEAD IT MAY SOUND SILLY BUT MY DEPRESSION IS MY BEST FRIEND IT HELPS GIVE ME SOMETHING TO PUT MY HAPPINESS INTO PERSPECTIVE THIS FOR ME IS THE BEAUTY AN GIFT OF LIFE ''HANG IN THERE KITTY'' AS FOR COMPLETE SENTENCES i donot wish to be rude but i never paid attention to grammer but i thought creative writing was cool
In my short 17 years of life, I've gone through some pretty fucked up shit that I'd rather not share with CA.org at this time. I manage to stay happy.
I'm probably just going to end up re-hashing a lot of what everyone else has said, but whatever. Whenever you get feeling down, balance that shit out with something good.
"Darn, I can't get a lady. Wait, I'm fucking awesome at painting."
"Dang, I'm a little pudgy. Oh, who cares, I'm a fucking killer with a bass."
And consider that anything bad you can think of can be reversed, with some work.
I don't understand how you don't have any friends. Everyone has friends. Acquaintances, at least. Maybe people just don't see the real Jake? How do you act at school? When you're looking to make friends, don't think about looking for people with similar interests. Most of my friends are into hip hop, rap, r & b, etc. (whatever kids are listening to, these days). None of them draw or paint. Most of my friends are nothing like me, but that doesn't even matter. We still have a good time watching movies, or playing video games, or just even walking around.
I'm overweight, I've got long hair (well groomed, may I add), I wear a lot of black, but I'd venture to say I could easily make friends with most anyone in my school. And I have, to some degree, at some point in the last 5 years, had positive social interactions with most of my age-group.
I may not be getting a whole lot of ladies right now, but I'm not very concerned with that. I'm 17 years old. I've got a lot of time to find me a mate, I think. And I don't look at the short term very much. It's quite unlikely that I'm going to marry some girl that I dated in high school.
Regardless, I wish you all the best, Mr. Kobrin.
EDIT: Oh, and if you're really having trouble just like.. approaching people, I guess? Get a part time job. Make sure it's somewhere with a lot of younger people working. After a week or two, you'll be getting along with everybody (as long as you're not some giant douche bag to everyone, and don't do your job). It seems like whenever I get a new job, I'm hanging out with a shitton of people that I didn't even know. Since I started working at Tim Horton's, I've been going to parties almost every weekend. Try it out.
Last edited by Jovian M; October 3rd, 2009 at 05:57 PM.
Grandmassa - I'm sorry to hear about the hardships you have been through. From what I have seen in these forums, though, you have an enthusiastic personality, you are a good person for taking care of your mom, you are optimistic, you are talented, you are funny, you are warm, and - as demonstrated by your contribution to the photo thread - you are very handsome with a great body. Please do not deny the female half of the population your company.
bunch of depress sissys...jk hahahaa
i get depress pretty often!! i wish my life was good as you wish yours would be,
but fuck it, life doesn't grant wishes!! you gotta make it happen yourself!
If you have no friends who cares, CA'ers are your friends!! actual friends will come along, I believe so!!
no girlfriend-shit watever i am in no rush to get into relationships!!
things dont go my way, so what?!? I am in no rush to live like a rock star, I'm find at the pace its going!
Shit people think i need therapy! fuck they need therapy for thinking am abnormal! i like the way my personality is
I live my life on patience (that may be hard for a lot of people to live by)- things i want will come, no need to rush in getting it
EDIT Damn Grandma Spect, sorry that you went through all of that, but i bet you are full of wisdom from all of your experience just like i was with all mine
and this give us meaning in a whole new perspective on life and how we live it
Last edited by SalOnimaruRem; October 3rd, 2009 at 05:09 PM.
Jake, I have a question:
You said you were once on medications for depression. Are you still on them? The same with therapy. Some people are depressed and get over it after a period of time or treatment and never have it occur to them again. In fact this is the majority of people who have depression, which is why the dropout rate on psyche outpatient waiting lists is so high. Others live with it for their entire life for various reasons, and often go undiagnosed. Some people have cyclic relapses for many reasons even if they're on meds because their bodies adapt and figure out you're trying to trick it into being happy with medication or exercise or whatever. You may fall into one of the more difficult categories and need to not discontinue whatever medications or therapy you find helps you cope with the depression best. And sorry to say, if you are a lifelong sufferer, it is just about coping day-to-day, and not curing.
There seems to be a great misunderstanding in society - and in this thread - about what depression is. Depression isn't "I'm alone and ugly and nobody likes me", because that has some vague connection to reality (the world really does hate people who don't conform to their rigid standards of beauty and social behaviour). Depression is "I know I have a good life and privilege and a social network and loving friends/family and I'm working towards goals and I am socially validated in some way and so on, but I still feel like crying all the time." It isn't a rational, explainable side-effect of having a less-than-perfect life. It's faking it and never making it because there is something inside you that doesn't quite work the way everyone else does. It's not "teenage blues" though many teenagers do experience real depression and have it dismissed and made worse by such beliefs. It's definitely not just self-pity. It's being awesome and still being depressed anyway. The two states of being are not mutually exclusive, and, as the vast pages of the geniuses of history shows us, often occur simultaneously in higher-functioning people with depression (or bipolar &/or BPD which also have strong depressive states).
Which I think, Jake, is why you should be talking to a professional about this, and not people on an art forum on the internet who clearly Do Not Get It. Frankly, if I was in your shoes and reading most of the replies in this thread I would be feeling worse about myself, not better.
Oh, i just remembered something from when i was your age jake. I used to think i was special cuz i was smart. I used to think i had a better understanding of things, and that people who didn't like the same things as me or saw things my way were dumb proles. I used big words, and brooded. I used to scoff at people telling me that i was in a phase. How could they put me in with all of "them", i'm special, my problems are unique! "I know they are trying to help, but this is something different, i'm not some dumbshit teenager!"
Turns out i was a dumbshit teenager after all. Kafka and Socrates in the bookshelf, and opeth & dream theatre in my headphones didn't change that. Its just too bad that noone can be told this, you just need to live past it to be able to look back and laugh at your younger self.
I still fall into the trap of believing myself to be of superior intellect, and that my opinion is more worth than others'. Luckily art is doing a good job at keeping me humble, fighting me every step of the way. And since every 3-5 years i have a revelation where i look back my younger self and laugh, i've learned to thread a little more carefully, I know i'll be laughing at myself now in a couple of years.
//Edit: mundanity, while i see where you are coming from, and you're not wrong, i don't think this applies to Jake. I am of course only speaking from personal experience, and the experience of those closest to me. I'm not a professional. But in my opinion, therapy would make things worse at this point. You shouldn't assume people Do Not Get It, or don't know the difference between real depression and teenage blues. I was very much in jake's shoes when i was younger, i see a lot of myself in him. Apart from the no friends bit i was very much in the shoes he's now wearing. They called me clinically depressed, they gave me drugs, and i did the therapy. All that did to me was give me an excuse, putting responsibility out of my hands and convincing me that it was something out of my control. And i really felt that way. I was sad even when i was laughing with my friends. Sad at christmas. It was so bloody unfair that i couldn't get a girlfriend, even tho i was CLEARLY oh so worthy. And it all felt so bloody hopeless. What changed things for me is that i started exercising regularly. I was severely overweight, smoked a lot, didn't really move at all. When i look back, OF COURSE i was depressed. After taking regular long walks every day, things got better and better. I didn't start losing weight until years after that, but the regular exercise helped my depression. Years of therapy and meds didn't fix what breaking a good sweat every day did. I'm not saying meds and therapy is useless, but try getting off your ass a little first and see if that works. Thats what i'm getting at.
Last edited by Slash; October 3rd, 2009 at 07:09 PM.
I’m sensing some desperation in your post. If you come across even slightly the same way offline, nobody is going to be interested in you. The greatest topic of interest to people is themselves. All you have to do is show genuine interest in other people, and some other people will show interest in you.
To be blunt, right now you are coming across as someone who views people as possible solutions to your own loneliness. You talk about what you have to offer them, not about what they can offer you. Forget about yourself for a second, what about the people at your school? Do you know anyone interesting and funny?
Maybe there is no one you are interested in from your school, which is understandable. It’s a good thing you’re so into music, because music has plenty of social potential.
For the record I’m not the most social person either, but I did manage to have a group of friends in high school. I’ve found that the most self absorbed I become, the more I worry about my own flaws, the harder it is for me to connect.
I only skimmed the thread, but it seems like everyone is telling you to try harder. It could be the opposite problem, maybe you should try less. You say you have less friends now than you did when you started trying to change yourself... maybe the efforts to change are part of the problem. All of this self-improvement advice you’re getting (losing weight, seeing a shrink) isn’t necessarily a bad idea, but it has the potential to get in your way by making you too worried. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to change, I'm not telling you to "be yourself," but putting too much effort into anything just makes you a nervous wreck. You cannot function socially if you’re too self conscious.
I think someone already said it, but "fake it till you make it." You're not going to be an awesome person by constantly beating up on yourself. You're going to be an awesome person by first believing that you're an awesome person. People will catch on only after you do.
Jake, don't regret posting this thread. I bet you somebody, somewhere, is going to read it and feel that they're less alone.
You're the only one who knows how bad things feel; if you're in Desperation Alley, seek professional help. Otherwise, Kelly's "Fake it until you make it" sounds good to me.
Sometimes if you act like you're happy and you expect things to go well, things can improve. You are the only person who can "make" you happy; to expect a friend or girlfriend to do it for you somehow is putting an awful burden on them.
Give it a try, and good luck.
Someone here already said smth that I think can be very true. I can't guarantee anything but "Fake it till you make it." worked for me. About a year ago when I was pretty much exactly your age I was pretty depressed, too. Only that I made myself depressed on purpose thinking that all that I don't give a shit attitude is so cool and rebel. Looking back I think it was sort of just a coping mechanism to shrug off all that BS I thought was surrounding me. Um, yea, I did drugs, smoked, drunk (still do the last two of em), was overly sarcastic in conversations and cold, etc. I though that would attract more "my kind" of crowd but actually they just thought I was silly and the friends I already had started distancing from me. Eventually I started to actually be depressed. The only good thing from those times is a tattoo that I still like a lot.
So one day I went to school and suddenly started being all happy and chattery and stuff. I didn't feel like it tho. But then I noticed my friends were more interested in me again and some of the classmates I loathed before seemed OK to talk to. I became more tolerant of different types of people. Now I actually care about others opinion.
Which brings me to why I'm depressed now. I made myself not care about if before but now it makes me sad. I'm the skinny tall girl type. Been skinny and tall all my life and it bothers me when people say I look too skinny and now I start to get worried myself. When I walk out on the streets people look at me. Usually for one of these reasons: they either think I have a serious eating disorder or I'm a pair of hot long legs to bang. Now it's all genes mostly. I don't starve myself, I eat three meals a day plus some nibblings, I don't count calories nor eat cotton balls soaked in grapejuice, though I naturally tend to like healthy foods. I just hate it how easily I lose weight and how hard work it is for me to gain some. I was recently sick for a week when I ate less than I normally do and I lost 4kg. I'm 1.78 cm and 51 kg is dangerous weight but the only way I gain weight is when I stuff myself all day making myself sick. I few years ago I had to give up dancing because it was too hard to maintain my weight. Now if I could get myself back to 55 kg I'd be happy, 60 is too much to ask. And my mom isn't making things easier picking on me how skinny I am. I blame you, you fucked my dad, he's genes.
Christmasbunneh, I hear you on the tall and skinny thing. When I was 17 I was 5 foot 10 inches (still am), and I weighed 8 stone (112 lbs). Not sure how that translates to kilograms, but I got sick and tired of people telling me how skinny and tall I was.
A temporary addiction to whipped cream helped me put on a pound or two.
All that "fake it until you make it" meant to me was that if everything in your life is so overwhelming that you have to escape by sleeping as you said to have your happy reality, "girlfriend", all of the things you first posted... if you need to escape by making up an altered reality in order to survive happily? If you do visualize your self as happy, healthy, well adjusted (whatever that is???), in love (if that's what your seeking?) - whatever you want- try to project yourself already cured, happy and not depressed any longer. Think yourself there and you will eventually get there. It takes a long time in order to do this on a regular basis, tell yourself your worthy, beautiful, happy, happy healthy, cool, a great artist... all can happen. If you slip tell yourself to start again.
I got an exam on thursday and I haven't studied enough for it.
"I wish to paint in such a manner as if I were photographing dreams" - Zdzislaw BeksinskiMy Happy Little Sketchbook, please check it out and help me get better!
Jake - you CAN beat this! seriously, the biggest problem is your attitude towards it, you seem like you are beaten already, lets change that attitude dude!
You as a human, as a feeling instrument are a beautiful creature, everyone is, some just mask it behind things that are not important (looks, material possessions), you dont need any barriers or defense against the world dude.
I was in a similar and difficult position, so I changed myself, I cut my hair (not that you have to do that, just helped me to move on), I moved location and started a fresh with no barriers or defense, u know what? never been so happy as I am now, i have met some wonderful new people, my art is improving faster and I am learning more and I met an amazing girl.
Now go kick urself in the ass and tomorrow wake up fresh, change your life dude!
its not over yet
All the best
Does your school provide counselling services, Jake?
I've been in your shoes. I know how hard it is being alone. I was like you at your age, and I recently had to struggle with these issues again when I moved to a new city on my own and realised I wasn't very good at making friends.
This site helped me a lot.
I know how hard can it be, when you want so say something and nobody is there to listen.
This thread its a huge step. A big step. A proof that there is people willing to hear. May not find the best solutions. But at least and its totally worth the while to know that there is other people who share the same or similar feelings. People who had lived or are right now living the same thing. People who can give insight and advices. And plenty of comments of guys what simply want to help.
Keep yourself busy. Like someone said, you are the KEY.
Avoid TV, too much crappy stuff. Make art, draw, paint, read books, even play video games. Do sports! Listen music that inspire you. Listen to people that inspire you. Use whatever activity that keeps of busy and motivated as a therapy. Social activities as well with people who share your interest.
I know i use it as a theraphy for myself. Its hard, but music saves me. Drawing saves me, a bit of sports and swimming saves me, hell even video games saves me. Threads like this and cheer me up saves me. I really wish it saves and help you too.
Dont ever feel afraid of ask for help or ask for friend.
Probably is not much. But good vibes are on the way!
Yell if you need to. Make a thread if you need to, seek help, search people.
And like "Jorney" says: "Be good to yourself" and "dont stop believin"
Keep posting, keep doing stuff man!