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    Acrylic painting questions

    Hi guys, I'm trying to gain a bit of insight into developing a good painting technique with acrylics. I absolutely DESPISE oils (just because I hate waiting a week for the dang thing to dry---if it could dry within a few days, I'd be set), but I enjoy the wet-on-wet techniques it's capable of, so I'm trying to simulate the effect with the acrylic medium.

    I've pretty much gotten the hang of controlling the fast drying with acrylics (I use a stay-wet pallette, retarders, slow-drying mediums, etc.) and I've found I can get some pretty good blends happening if I focus on one area at a time. The tackiness of the medium used to give me problems, but I paint very fluidly now, and I use Golden's Acrylic Glazing Liquid when I need to. However, it's still a challenge, and I'd like to improve in a few areas:

    1) The canvas texture is causing problems. I understand this is likely to happen regardless of what surface I use, especially with acrylics, but the rough texture is causing my brushstrokes to "break up" at the edges, resulting in a scruffy, amateurish look. For this reason, I make sure to keep my paint as fluid as possible, and paint multiple layers, but it's still an issue unless I keep painting back and forth between the foreground and background edges. Does this tend to happen as much if you use flow release, or does that make much of a difference? I've been thinking about sanding the canvas, although I do enjoy drybrushing---I just wish I had a bit more control over it.

    2) I like to scumble. I've found that when areas begin to dry, there is more friction, and the scumbling doesn't work out as well. However, by wetting the paint on the canvas, I can reduce the surface tension. Is this a good idea, or is it best to let it dry completely?

    3) Ultimately, I'm trying to get the paint to handle more like oils. However, I want to avoid the risk of mucking the whole thing up as best as I can. To do this, I take advantage of the fast drying time of acrylics in the following way:

    For the first layer, I dillute the paint as much as I can without making it look like crap. This dries almost immediately, and I can procede with a good block-in stage without smearing colour around (I do the exact same thing while working with oil, and surprisingly, the dilluted paint dries pretty quickly). I continue working this way, making refinements here and there, until I have the canvas completely covered.

    Then I add the shadows. I do this by glazing, because I still want to see what I've done up to this point (also, the underlying colour helps with the gradation). If I use full opacity, I risk painting over certain parts that I want to keep as a reminder of what I need to do later on. I use regular matte medium for this, because I'm going to paint over it right after this part. I also make any minor corrections I may need to do. This concludes the underpainting.

    Once that's dry, I repaint the whole thing, cleaning up areas that need to be blended. This time, I use AGL. I still paint very fluidly, but I'm thinking of using soft gel to thicken the paint. I'm not (for the time being) aiming for an impasto look, but I at least want the paint thick enough so that:
    a) it completely seals the texture of the canvas
    b) wet-on-wet blending is possible
    One technique I use for a transparent gradation is to add a dark glaze, and while it's still wet, add pure medium to the edges, and keep scumbling until it completely disappears into the background. I'm also thinking of adding Liquithick.

    Despite my careful planning, it remains a difficult medium to handle. What are some other people's strategies? Are they similar to what I do, or do they just go right into it, not caring if the paint dries too slowly?


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  4. #2
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    1. Try painting on illustration board or gessoed masonite. Also, don’t fear soft edges – they aren’t “unprofessonal”.
    2. Add all the water you want. Also, drybrushing can result in nice effects, but you have to work very fast, and it will murder your brush.
    3. Oils really are the best thing for looking and feeling like oils – I recently gave up and switched to oils myself. But acrylics are great if you can tolerate the quick drying time. Your approach sounds good. I used to start with a drawing, then a layer of medium to seal the drawing, then a monochromatic layer with lots of outlines, then color.

    There is someone who posted in the Finally Finished section these past months who gets an amazing soft look to his acrylic paintings, but I’m suddenly blanking on his name. Look for 50’s-era subject matter.
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

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    I think the biggest challenge in acrylics is controlling edges- it's easy to get hard edges but getting soft/firm edges are the challenge. Wet-in-wet is one way, but you can also smudge, smear, spatter, scrape, & dry brush- which are all more conducive to acrylic paint.

    If you can get your hands on the "Stones" or "Stars" books by Sebastien Kruger you can see a variety of acrylic techniques- some very graphic and others very painterly. He might be the best acrylic painter I know of in terms of range of techniques and general handling of the medium. He is very careful with his edges which is how he achieves the more painterly look- and he uses a tremendous variety of techniques to achieve the softer edges. It's difficult to see them on the images of his that I've seen online, so if you can find the books they're worth it because they have large, good quality reproductions- especially if you're dedicated to acrylics.

    also, as per usual- if you can post your work and ask for specific help you'll probably get a lot more...

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    why not just use oils?

    add a few drops of Cobalt drier to your medium and the paint will dry overnight.
    - Dan Dos Santos
    www.dandossantos.com

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    DSillustration...You are so right, its amazing how many people are going to huge lengths to get acrylics to look like oils! All this faff this chap is doing, when added up, cannot be more faff than the drying time of oils.

    It is unfortunate, but oil can pretty easily duplicate most other painting mediums (even watercolour, use petroleum to help with that) but non can convincingly duplicate oils.

    How about this though, it might help if you are adamant to stick to acrylics. Do all your normal methods, but when you get to that last step, where you over paint things, use oils? Surely if its the last step, you don't need to wait for it to dry in order to overpaint later?

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    Okay, let me rephrase what I said: I do enjoy working with oils, but it's a real pain in the arse waiting for them to dry. I use a fast drying medium, but even that can give me problems if I want to paint over an area.

    Another problem I have with oil is the way it handles. If you don't apply it properly (ie fat over lean), it can give you problems with the way it flows and adheres to the surface. I've even noticed that it drips if I add too much medium. This is never an issue with acrylics. But ya gotta work really fast.

    Anyway, since I don't wanna get cancer, cobalt drier is out of the question. I'm currently using water-mixable oil.

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    adding a little bit of acrylic retarder to the paint can help if you want to paint with it like oils but still want it to dry faster than oils.
    After painting with acrylics for a while I noticed that it works best if you paint with it like in photoshop (because thats basically how it works: you always paint on top of dried color and have no real blender).
    Though no matter how you work: the only thing that counts is that the right color ends up at the right place
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthebling View Post
    Anyway, since I don't wanna get cancer, cobalt drier is out of the question.
    You're not supposed to eat it!
    I assure you, there are hundreds of things you do without a second thought that put you at far greater risk than properly using art supplies.
    Last edited by Elwell; May 16th, 2007 at 09:26 AM.

    Tristan Elwell
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    Yes, I am aware of that. The bottom line however, is that if a safer alternative exists, use it. Actually, the school I'm currently enrolled in forbids any kind of solvents except odourless mineral spirits or Gamsol, as well as varnishes, cobalt drier, Liquin, etc, and with good reason. I'm especially sensitive to vapours, which is why I use acrylics and water-mixable oils in the first place. I'm not sure what it's going to be like at Max, but I really hope it isn't an issue. Given the amount of painting the students do, I'd assume the staff is really careful about what students can and can't use.

    I'm also thinking about wearing gloves or protective cream, since I often get paint on my hands (I wash it off immediately, but you can never be too careful). I try to avoid using toxic pigments, but I haven't been able to find any white that doesn't contain lead or cadmium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaknafain View Post
    adding a little bit of acrylic retarder to the paint can help if you want to paint with it like oils but still want it to dry faster than oils.
    After painting with acrylics for a while I noticed that it works best if you paint with it like in photoshop (because thats basically how it works: you always paint on top of dried color and have no real blender).
    Though no matter how you work: the only thing that counts is that the right color ends up at the right place
    Yeah, it's really best to just do overlapping (scumbling) brushstrokes and glazes, and more direct application of pre-mixed colour (rather than try to blend directly on the canvas).

    If it's really fluid or thickly applied, you can get some decent wet-on-wet effects, but it really works best if you focus on one area at a time.

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    Yeah, school environments can get particularly nasty, even at good schools. (In RISD's required oil painting courses in the Illustration department, for instance, the ventilation was crap, so we marinated in the fumes for hours on end. No wonder I hated oils for so many years.) Also, using oils in a dorm room isn't the best idea.

    On the other hand, when you are in control of your setting, oil paints can be handled in a manner that is mostly safe. I wear gloves and use solvents only in the early stages of a painting and for clean-up. I may trade in the oils for another medium for a few years when I get pregnant, but that's a rather special circumstance.
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthebling View Post
    I try to avoid using toxic pigments, but I haven't been able to find any white that doesn't contain lead or cadmium.
    White paints do not contain cadmium (I read a few MSDS sheets to check, but not from all makers).
    Titanium or zinc white paints (both with zinc oxide as main ingrediant) do have trace ( one ppm according to W and N MSDS sheets) amounts of lead in them.

    None of the heavy metals can cross unbroken skin however. You have to eat or breath it. (a lot) Do avoid sanding your paintings though if you are concerned. Good ventilation and dust masks are always a good idea when sanding anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig D View Post
    None of the heavy metals can cross unbroken skin however.
    I was told by a teacher that either one of the solvents or oils can allow heavy metals to pass through the skin. (And I can't remember which it was.) But this is easily solved by wearing gloves or by just avoiding finger-painting.

    Like Craig said, though, sanding paint is the most likely way to get the heavy metals in your body, so don't do that.
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig D View Post
    White paints do not contain cadmium (I read a few MSDS sheets to check, but not from all makers).
    Titanium or zinc white paints (both with zinc oxide as main ingrediant) do have trace ( one ppm according to W and N MSDS sheets) amounts of lead in them.
    Trace amounts of lead occur as a natural contaminant in titanium ores. Paint manufacturers are no longer able to label titanium white paints as "lead free" (which they effectively are) because of an incredibly strict interpretation of California's consumer protection laws. Yet titanium dioxide and zinc oxide are common ingredients in food, makeup, and pharmaceuticals, none of which are carry lead warnings. If every aspect of life were regulated and labeled as strictly as the art materials industry, you'd never get out of bed.

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    *goes back to bed*

    hehehe
    so far so good, I haven't gotten sick or killed myself with art suplies yet. Im in far more immediate danger form my automobile

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    Oh, by the way, all of the lovely cadmiums and leads and cobalts are also to be found in good-quality acrylic paints.
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.

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    Okay, that's reassurring. I think the main issue with acrylic vs. oil is that acrylic dries quickly, so there's less time for the chemical to be absorbed into your body. I make sure to clean my hands if any paint gets on them, but if the particles are too solid to pass through unbroken skin, I'm not worried.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthebling View Post
    I think the main issue with acrylic vs. oil is that acrylic dries quickly, so there's less time for the chemical to be absorbed into your body.
    That makes no sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
    There is someone who posted in the Finally Finished section these past months who gets an amazing soft look to his acrylic paintings, but I’m suddenly blanking on his name. Look for 50’s-era subject matter.
    Hey Seedling, that's me you're thinking of!
    The whole point of acrylics is to go with its strengths not fight its weaknesses. Thus the paintings have to be imagined as being built out of a series of superimposed layers. I think I mentioned when I first posted here that I think of acrylic as pastels temporarily made mobile with water. Anyway here is a couple of examples of the paintings - they are recent so not very 50s I'm afraid! I'm trying for a more timeless feel. Any questions about the technique I will be glad to answer. Its worth mentioning that I trained as an oil painter and spent the first 20 years of my career usong them exclusively.
    .
    Acrylic painting questions
    .
    Acrylic painting questions
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    Acrylic painting questions
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    Acrylic painting questions
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell View Post
    That makes no sense.
    It makes perfect sense. The pigment is suspended in a liquid medium, which it can easily move through as long as it's wet. Once it drys, it can't leach into your skin. Therefore, this won't happen very much with acrylic, which dries within minutes. But if you have any kind of toxic oil medium on your skin, you'll be able to keep absorbing it for hours until you clean it off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthebling View Post
    It makes perfect sense. The pigment is suspended in a liquid medium, which it can easily move through as long as it's wet. Once it drys, it can't leach into your skin. Therefore, this won't happen very much with acrylic, which dries within minutes. But if you have any kind of toxic oil medium on your skin, you'll be able to keep absorbing it for hours until you clean it off.
    Lots of things seem to make sense when you don't think them through too much. But that doesn't make what you said make any more sense than astrology or homeopathy. Skin is a very effective barrier between your body and the world: that's what it's for. Pigment particles are, as you said, suspended in the paint vehicle, not dissolved in it. If a pigment particle is too big to pass through the skin barrier, it makes no difference what else it's mixed with. Some solvents (turpentine, for example) can be absorbed through the skin, causing rashes, irritation, etc, but that's a completely different issue.

    (On a slightly related note, in an earlier post I mentioned titanium dioxide being used in cosmetics and pharmaceuticals. One such use is in sunscreens. Titanium microparticles have been developed that are so small that they're transparent, so you don't get the streakiness and chalkiness of older pigment-based sunscreens. However, even though titanium dioxide is universally considered nontoxic, there is some concern about these, because evidently they're so small that they can actually pass through the cell membranes.)

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    Chris! Hi! Howyabeen? :-) You know, if you had a handle like DeathMetalSpew, I would have an easier time remembering it.
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seedling View Post
    Chris! Hi! Howyabeen? :-) You know, if you had a handle like DeathMetalSpew, I would have an easier time remembering it.

    Well, you remembered the most important thing!
    I've been good thanks, haven't posted for a bit because of workload and developing new subject matter etc etc. Have you thought any more about exhibiting those terrific little studies of yours? You must have quite a collection by now!
    From Gegarin's point of view
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    Haha! You're making me blush. Nah, I've had a hard enough time keeping my webpage updated to seriously consider doing anything else. My first priority is still daily painting for the sake of learning, so the darn things keep stacking higher behind the sofa. :-)

    Ooh, new subject matter? Have you got a sketchbook here somewhere? If not, you should start one so I can see what you're up to. :-)
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.

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    That's kind of you Seedling! I'm not too sure how to start one - is it the same process as the finished stuff, i.e. start a thread and just add the scans of your drawings as you go along?
    From Gegarin's point of view
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    Just start a thread in the sketchbook section, put stuff in it, and make inappropriate comments about "dumping". :-)

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    hey chris... thanks for posting the new paintings. its partly your fault that I gave acrylics another go... and it was totally worth it. Hope to see more from you soon
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    why does it take a week for your oils to dry? where do you live? Theres other factors besides what you add to the oil that will help it dry faster, such as the heat/humidity of storage, how much sunlight is hitting it, etc..

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    Well, I tend to work really quickly and spontaneously (which is why I absolutely love working with acrylics), so sometimes I have a tendency to put down a lot of paint or medium. I'm sure that if I slowed down and applied it more thinly, it wouldn't take as long.

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    I don't like working with oils for the same reason...too messy and takes long time to dry. Because of the quick drying time, I use the cheap craft paints (hey, don't laugh) that comes in plastic bottles and in nearly every color imaginable. I like them because don't have to mix up a big glob of paint all at once and use it before it dries on my palette. They are also thinner and goes on smoother than the kind that comes in tubes. However, if you prefer using professional paints, that's your preference.
    Like Seedling say, how smooth your edges look depends on the surface used and the paint's visciousness. It's possible to get a nice and blended look with acrylics with practice. Sometimes when mixing two colors, I don't blend them together completely on the palette, but blend them directly on the picture. Also, sometimes dry brushing lightly over dried color will give a nice effect.

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