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April 22nd, 2007 #1
Investing in the Stock Market vs. Spending Time and Money on Artwork
I am a person fast approaching mid 50’s and this conclusion from years of trial and error experience is becoming more apparent. You have a much better chance at financial success by exploiting other peoples’ labor than you do working hard at something like creative artwork and design.
This week the stock market moved into record breaking territory. People are making all kinds of returns from investing their money in the stock market. A well diversified portfolio of investments will generally protect one against adverse risk and over the years has provided approximately a 10% return on investment. Whether you have easy money to invest or money you worked really hard to accumulate for investing you have very little work to do on top of the investing and managing your investments. In the stock market you make money (dividends) by exploiting other peoples’ hard work and labor.
Artwork on the other hand is something I have persistently continued to pursue. Spent four years of career training back in the 1970’s for illustrating art and commercial art. I have never really made a living at artwork and never sold anything for any reasonable profit. I have spent thousands of hours working on paintings and drawings over the past 30 years (with ten years of not doing much). For me to pursue artwork the reality is to earn money outside of this field by working hard at some other form of labor and then use what you made there to invest in supplies to work even harder pursuing something that can become downright frustrating and aggravating as you become more serious about perfecting your work. There is an incredible amount of competition in this area for what opportunities are available. Therefore your risk is very high and adverse when investing your time and money into pursuing art. You also run a higher level of risk from having your work stolen by someone else, especially with anything shown on the internet. In conclusion artwork seems like very little return for a lot of work and extremely high risk involved.
As I draw close to retirement age and find myself with no money I realize that the time and money spent pursuing artwork was a waste of time and a serious mistake that will now cause me financial problems as I approach retirement. Was it something I enjoyed? In the roller coaster ups and downs I have experienced in life, the only time I have enjoyed working with art is when I have a lot of money for the freedom to do what I want and pay for living expenses providing more time to concentrate on artwork. During the difficult times it always seems like a waste of time and money. It seems to me that artwork is something that only the rich should pursue for fun and enjoyment. I'm sure there are exceptions where someone from a poor background becomes financially successful doing what they like as a professional artist yet the odds seem much better investing money in something where you exploit other peoples hard work and labor like the stock market and also a lot less work involved.
Hide this ad by registering as a memberApril 22nd, 2007 #2
Hmm, it's kinda sad to me how something as free emotionally as artwork can just be analyzed in a statistical manner. The people who are successful at art are generally the people who love it more than anything and will do it happily regardless of whether they're getting paid or not.
I'm sorry that you've had such a bad experience with art and that it has left a bad taste in your mouth. I just hope that reading this won't ruin it for anybody else.
April 22nd, 2007 #3Originally Posted by Stephen Lo Piano
Would you really want all of the world's art to have been created by hobbyists?
- Dan Dos Santos
April 22nd, 2007 #4
I want to say so much...
But I'll leave it at:
One should be very careful about universalizing personal experience.
**Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial
Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!
"Work is more fun than fun."
"Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
April 22nd, 2007 #5
April 22nd, 2007 #6
I'm going to be very blunt here. I'm sorry if it offends anybody.
Your thread disgusts me.
April 22nd, 2007 #7
April 22nd, 2007 #8
April 22nd, 2007 #9
April 22nd, 2007 #10
dude that's tough
sorry, i do not know if you are passing for the so called "mid fifties crisis" but, thats harsh ... you cannot just say that art is like that
art is more than thinking about getting rich and other stuff ... yeah of course we need money to live, but thats not about it... one thing is doing something to get money, other is doing sth because you like
I am gonna post and translate a really good text of one guy from here Brazil and what advice he has:
"Não paute sua vida, nem sua carreira, pelo dinheiro.
Ame seu ofício com todo o coração. Persiga fazer o melhor. Seja fascinado
pelo realizar, que o dinheiro virá como conseqüência.
Quem pensa só em dinheiro não consegue sequer ser nem um grande bandido,nem
um grande canalha.
Napoleão não invadiu a Europa por dinheiro.
Hitler não matou 6 milhões de judeus por dinheiro.
Michelangelo não passou 16 anos pintando a Capela Sistina por dinheiro.
E, geralmente, os que só pensam nele não o ganham. Porque são incapazes de
sonhar. E tudo que fica pronto na vida foi construído antes, na alma.
A propósito disso, lembro-me de uma passagem extraordinária, que descreve o
diálogo entre uma freira americana cuidando de leprosos no Pacífico e um
milionário texano. O milionário, vendo-a tratar daqueles leprosos, disse:
"Freira, eu não faria isso por dinheiro nenhum no mundo." E ela responde:
"Eu também não, meu filho".
Não estou fazendo com isso nenhuma apologia à pobreza, muito pelo
Digo apenas que pensar e realizar, tem trazido mais fortuna do que pensar
em fortuna. "
"Do not guide your life, neither your job, by money.
Love what you do with all you got. Thrive to be the best. Be fascinated about "doing", that money will come as consequence.
One who thinks only about money is not even able to be a good thief, nor a big jerk.
Napoleon did not invade Europe for money.
Hitler didn't kill 6 millions jewishs for money.
Michelangelo did not spent 16 years of his life painting the Sistine Chapel for money.
And usually, one who only thinks about money, ends up not getting it at all. Because they are incapable of dreaming. And everything that is done in life has been built before, in our own soul.
By the way, that reminds me of a extraordinary quote that describes the dialog between an female american priest watching for people with leprosis in the Pacific and a millionare from Texas. The millionaire, watching the lady taking care of all that needed people says:
"Lady, I would not do that not even for 1 million dollars". And the lady answers:
"Me neither my loved."
I am not doing an apology for poorness or something like that, it is exaclty the opposite of that.
I am just saying that thinking and doing, has been bringing more fortune that thinking about fortune."
Yeah, thats the translation. It is not perfect but I think you can get the gist.
Heres the link (in portuguese, you can put in google translator) of the text:
This text is awsome! Ive read it at least 10x.
Maybe if you guys want I can translate the rest of it for you.
Last edited by brunopicinini; April 22nd, 2007 at 08:41 AM."Dream is not what you see while sleeping ...
It is the thing which does not let you sleep. "
April 22nd, 2007 #11
...you know, i was half expecting a link to some cheesy get-rich-quick-on-the-stockmarket spammy website after your rant...
April 22nd, 2007 #12
April 22nd, 2007 #13Registered User
- Join Date
- Sep 2004
- Thanked 23 Times in 20 Posts
Maybe when you die, your artwork will become extremely valuable and you will never have to worry about money again!
April 22nd, 2007 #14
yes, i would say you are better off investing in the stock market. Because as everyone knows, money is the most important thing in life.
April 22nd, 2007 #15
there are quite some people on these forums who gave up their well-paying jobs, for the sake of their art.
You probably made the wrong careerchoice from the start.
April 22nd, 2007 #16
Stephen, what you are having is called a “mid-life crisis”. Many people have them, and it isn’t necessarily something that happens right in the middle of your life. It doesn’t have anything to do with art. It’s simply that you are figuring out what to do with your remaining time by evaluating the time that you have already spent. That’s fine, but at some point you have to stop regretting past decisions that you can’t change and move on with your life. If art isn’t making you happy then yes, stop making art and go do something else.
I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.
Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.
April 23rd, 2007 #17
Thanks to everyone for your time in reading and replying here.
I love artwork so long as there is the money that buys the freedom to pursue and most important time (this stuff is very time consuming).
My experience may be helpful to younger people indecisive and juggling their own personal value judgments with respect to what direction in life will provide their objective in the future. This may be negative yet it is reality for me, if my abilities were marginal perhaps that is why I have failed. I am providing the truth, instead of positive encouragement. Investing in your future through a well diversified portfolio of investments is probably less risk and will pay back a reasonable return on investment instead of investing in a portfolio of artwork that might return some reasonable results from investment if you are super good at this and/or lucky.
April 23rd, 2007 #18
One other thing about my life that I would like to reveal is that I have wound up homeless on two occasions pursuing artwork and taking risks. My last horrible experience resulted in the destruction of many oil paintings, and years of work in natural media as a result of nowhere to store anything and no money to live anywhere. This also resulted in a serious problem with a fear of doing anything with artwork for some ten years. Although I have this addictive type passion for creating artwork it always seems to lead to this same cycle of a loosing streak. The ten years I stayed away from artwork and pursued making money at my best possible job opportunities things improved and I saved enough money through hard work to start through this same loosing cycle that currently has me broke again, hanging on for dear life. My college education in Accounting and everything learned about investing and finance makes me feel as though I have taken ridiculous risk with no return on investment and continuous loss. It's beginning to feel like the symptoms of someone with a gambling problem or drug addiction.
April 23rd, 2007 #19Registered User
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- Los Angeles
- Thanked 10 Times in 8 Posts
April 23rd, 2007 #20It's beginning to feel like the symptoms of someone with a gambling problem or drug addiction.
...if your above quote is true,..I would HIGHLY recommend you stick with your art, andstay away from the stock market...and Vegas too!!!
"If one advances confidently in the direction of
his dreams, and endeavors to live the life he
has imagined, he will meet with a success
unexpected in common hours."
- H.D. Thoreau
April 24th, 2007 #21
wow...very shallow analysis indeed. Great thing about art is you can trade on the stock market too, one doesn't negate the other. You can take and take in art everywhere you go in life, don't let it die by numbers in the rest of yours. I will never make a living making art, all you have to do is look at my sketchbook to know that, but I will make a life with art playing a major role.
Take your financial commentary to FOX News or something...
April 24th, 2007 #22
So the moral of this story is, why work hard at something when you can get other people to do it and just exploit them. Joking!
This may sound cliche but I create art for myself. There is a sense of achievment I enjoy when I am done working on something.