Are you your own worst Critic?
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Thread: Are you your own worst Critic?

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    Are you your own worst Critic?

    Firstly, Allow me to introduce myself: I have been lurking here for a few weeks now, but only have just joined. I admit that I mostly look at the drawings, and seldomly read what people have to say (this will change soon). I also don't exactly know how friendly this place is. the other 2 forums I have ever joined range from family friendly to complete dickheads (fwooshnet.com and Mindless Self Indulgence Boards, respectfully). So I don't know where this place stands, really.

    Anyway, If this topic is in the wrong place, I expect Mods to move it to the right place. now, on to the topic at hand:

    I have been trying my damnedest to make a comic with my roommate over the last month in a half. We have everything pretty much planned out, with ideas pooping out of our heads daily, and though he lavishes me with praise on my artwork, I can't help but feel that what I see on the paper is NOT what I see in my head. I can't seem to get the look down right. from depth, to right angles, to just nearly everything, I can't seem to get it right (I will be posting pics as soon as I get to my scanner to show what I mean). My style is a self-proclaimed kitbash of Batman Animated series (and the shows that fallowed up to Justice League Unlimited), Dexters Lab, and sort of Disneys Atlantis, with work from Ben Caldwell mixed in thanks to Action! Cartooning. In other words, simple, but dynamic and stylish.

    The story feels solid, and the directing is, I feel, well done, too. I can see the costumes, the characters, the camera angles, the settings, everything in my head, but when I go to that sketch pad and try to make it show worthy for others to see, it falls considerably short. I am actually way to embarrassed of the abortion that my hand has made on the paper to even bother showing others. However, for the sake of trying to learn how to fix this problem, expect these images to show up on this thread in the upcoming days.

    So, here I stand, wondering if others feel this way, and wondering how they over come this obstacle. any ideas? tidbits? etc?

    And also, do I really gotta do an image starting with the line skeleton and working in the details upon layers of details later? or do real comic artist just jump to what is needed to be done before inking it takes place? Just wondering.

    Finally, do Blue pencils REALLY help with scanning images and it not showing up? I read somewhere that this was true...

    Thank you all for any help in advance, I do appreciate it.


    -Andrew

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strap3.0
    do I really gotta do an image starting with the line skeleton and working in the details upon layers of details later? or do real comic artist just jump to what is needed to be done before inking it takes place? Just wondering.
    There are many ways to draw a figure accurately from imagination. But those who do it well have one thing in common: they have spent countless hours drawing humans from life. That has allowed them to build up a mental image of the human body that they can draw on when drawing from imagination. Without that mental image to work from, drawing human anatomy from imagination is a bit of a lost cause, especially in drawing comics, which are all about characters.

    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.
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    quote:"I can't help but feel that what I see on the paper is NOT what I see in my head. I can't seem to get the look down right. from depth, to right angles, to just nearly everything, I can't seem to get it right"

    I think some (many?) people like to draw a no. of simple versions (is it called thumbnail?) to visualise what's in mind and then choose the most suitable one to work further. Regarding whether blue pencil really works, you can try it!

    Last edited by _ J; April 20th, 2007 at 08:55 AM.
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    _J : You need the funamentals and a lot of practice to be able to put down what you see in your head on the paper... That won't come with only thumbnails

    You must practice a lot.. all the basics is nessesary to make it look like what you see in your head! Studying from life and getting good observation skills is also nessessary ( spelling btw ? sorry ) Just keep struggling, and don't expect it to be right at the first time!

    Keep it up, I'd be happy to see how far you've come when you get that scanner =)

    ~Dile

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    Ilaekae is offline P.O.W.! Leader, Complete Idiot, Super Moderator Level 17 Gladiator: Spartacus' Dimachaeri
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    "Are you your own worst Critic?"

    You damn well better be, or you'll end up in a hole so deep you'll never get out of it...

    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strap3.0
    I also don't exactly know how friendly this place is. the other 2 forums I have ever joined range from family friendly to complete dickheads.
    We're friendly dickheads.
    Quote Originally Posted by Strap3.0
    I can see the costumes, the characters, the camera angles, the settings, everything in my head, but when I go to that sketch pad and try to make it show worthy for others to see, it falls considerably short.
    Your first problem is one of skill/experience, of course. You simply don't have the tools that you need yet, and the only solution for that is education and practice. But I think you also are falling prey to a fundamental misunderstanding of the process. It's not a matter of completely realizing an image mentally, and then translating that into a drawing. Our mental images are far less defined than most of us really think. I start drawing and thinking at the same time, and usually don't know what something is "supposed" to look like until I begin to see it in physical form.


    Tristan Elwell
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    Everybody is 100% right about practice being the only way to success.

    Your method (sketelon-to-finals) sounds like you're following that Ben Caldwell book too closely (ugh). Loosen up and only draw what guidelines you need--not every line indicated in the book. The more experience you get, the less guidelines you will need.

    Blue pencil is great for loosening you up, and helping artists who draw too darkly do lighter underdrawings before refining in graphite. However, blue line can be very waxy and repel ink, is tough to erase, and will absolutely show up when scanned digitally (even channel tricks will still leave bits of it on a drawing). I use both depending on my mood. Try it out.

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    Quick look at what I AM trying to do (in other words, I did this picture good):



    My roommate added the lighting effect. This is an awesome picture... I was very proud of me self with this one.

    So, yeah... thats all I got for now.


    -Andrew

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    strap–> be your own critic sure, but know that even then you won't pick up on some nec. crits on your work that would help you improve. believe in what you do though, and open yourself up for that criticism, knowing full well that you are capable of mistakes and that you shouldn't beat yourself up because of them.

    make sure that your inner critic isn't self-defeating in nature.

    g

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    Oooh...that's an interesting picture!! O_O I'm thinking the comic will have a neat and funky look to it!

    But I agree with the others about how to go about practicing! And about being your own worst critic! Oy...one day I might feel like your picture is the best ever! Next day I find little things wrong, then more things. It happens so much to me, I'm starting to just appreciate that it looks better than what I made years before. Slightly.

    At least you have the ideas in your head! I'm in a similar situation. I'm soon to make a comic, but I actually can't draw the scenes or characters yet. So I'm practicing on anatomy and other things. I hope you can find yourself some time to do it! Good success!! I'll be watching out for your progress!

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    Does anyone know of people locally (as in, on this forum) whom have a similar taste in drawing as I do? I would love to discuss certain things with them, as well as view their work.

    Thanks.


    -Andrew

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    Also, Thanks JazzW. I admit to wanting it to have a neat and funky look, and hope that the story is twice as good (in our heads, it totally is!)



    -Andrew

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    My critic is mean but usually right

    I normally tell myself when I start a piece that it's going to look awful at first but I know that a piece isn't finshed until I stop working on it so it can always be improved. (Even if I take a break from it and some back to it days later) Just remember that some of the best finished works had a LOT of prework, rework and PATIENCE but we as viewers usually only see the finished image and not always all the work that went into it.

    I was working on a graphic novel just recetnly and posted some pages myself

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=95725

    and I used a blue pen instead of a blue pencil for my initial sketches. I actually use few pens: blue, a purple pen and then a black pen so each drawing is done three times before it's finalized... The blue roughs out the shapes and forms I want, the purple starts to refine them and the black pick out the ones I like the most. Then I take the rough sketches and set them on a light table with my good bristol paper, trace them lightly with a mechanical pencil and ink the whole thing with a fountain pen. Five times total, normally plenty of times to look at a drawing but even then sometimes I make changes before scanning it into the computer to clean it all up.

    Then again I like to rework projects, some people just go right to illustrator and cut out half the time I know that either way the predrawing and knowledge of anatomy, layout etc is there so don't hesitate to draw a character many times over to get it perfect.

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    tomwaits4noman is offline well, that's a pipe of a different color Level 7 Gladiator: Samnite
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    i think this is the whole joy of the creative process, I have started a comic proposal at least three times, from sketch to completed drawing at some stage you just have to let go, Some times the strandard we set is too high, I was forever trying to best/ match the pro's and so realised it ain't happening. I would suggest Klaus Janson how to pencil the dc way I found it more informative than its marvel counter part.

    also research what you are trying to achieve, say you have a shot of a city scape, get real life references
    Frank Miller used to sketch the city tops of New york as reference for Daredevil.

    lastly if have some friends who you can trust or get an honest opinion from show them the pages see what they think. hope this helps

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    I'm my own worst critic yes. Though it has it's pro's, for improving. I also find that it has it's cons to me; I don't draw as much with joy lately since I am too critic on my self and even most times don't give my self a change to finish a piece.

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    I am yes, i usually scrapmywork before it starts to look good, i scrap it whilst making the guidelines, then restart on another, then do the same, its weird.

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    Hell yeah I am! I crit my before any one else can get to it, hehe. I beat myself everyday because I am sucking at design and don't do thumbs as much, and plan as much. But, it is all for the good though, for my improvement.

    Usually my thoughts are never complete. Revisions are always made when I during the drawing process and sometimes I end up drawing something completely different from what I initially thought, or I move on to the next painting, usually because the idea is just not as good as I thought, or I just do not like where it is going. Idea is the basis of my painting usually. I have poor planning though in the process, and I usually have many failed attempts. Composition is usually the main issue, mood and color being the next things that are lacking. Other things that usually makes my work less appealing is design and variation is sizes, blown believable scale which are other issues that I run into and want to solve in the beginning of my works. That is a little bit of an explanation, and answers you question. I too, have my obstacles. I always like to think of it my journey in art as basketball. You have to learn fundamentals to have functional team. Team ball no selfishness(one man can't win championships), strong defense, strong offense, the most physical, who has mental game, who can last the longest on the court and still be consistent in shooting, dribbling, and passing the ball. It takes hard work to become great in anything. Other day I played a kid younger than me, and was getting beat, because I am out of shape and early on just got way fatigue way to fast. So I am about to run and workout now. I used to play basketball a lot and I would have never gotten beaten, if I would have continued to play as consistent as I was in my earlier days. I am all about defense and stripping the ball which I was doing but not enough to stop this from assaulting me and getting to the goal. Alright, I will quit my rambling now, hehe. Holla! XD

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