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  1. #1
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    New Idea for Car Engine

    Hey guys,

    I am no industrial designer but I just have a little thought....

    I was hanging out with my little nephew last night and he had a pair of those wind-up cars, you know the ones that you roll back a few times then let go and watch it race forward. And I know this might seem a little mad but why in the world could that not work for standard cars today?

    It wouldn't be the exact same system of course but why not have an engine that has been 'cranked' in some way to hold all of that power and release it on command, you could have a series of gears to limit how much power was distributed (much like a standard car). To 'recrank' you could simply go to a station that would have the proper re-cranking mechanism to 'wind' the engine back up and on your dashboard there would simply be (like a gas gauge) gauge to tell you how much 'crank' your engine has in reserve.

    The engine could have a (for example) top horsepower of 100hp and then a series of...well something (this is where my limited industrial design shows) that could limit and control how much power is put to the wheels.

    No gas, no oil, no nothing really...

    What do you think?

    C


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  3. #2
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    I think there's probably a reason why this isn't on the market. I'm no engineer either, and I'm quite certain if it was viable someone would have done it already. They are currently experimenting with magnetism as a way to make wheels turn, though I am unfamiliar with the technicalities concerning this idea.
    Brendan Noeth


  4. #3
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    i had this idea recently. instead of burning coal, using nuclear power, or any other dirty method of producing energy, why dont we breed millions of hamsters, and put them in hamster wheels that are hooked up to generators so they generate a small amount of power. if we did enough of them i dont see why we couldnt run the world off hamster power...i have also been thinking of how cool it would be if someone could invent a tree that grows money AND ice cream. thats killing 2 birds with one stone!-c36

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    haha, great ideas el coro.. i'll get to work on it

    well, im not professionally registered, but i am a design engineer. and i am very automotively inclined. and there are MANY reasons why that 'wind-up crank' technology isnt everywhere today. but the most primary reason is: its a ridiculous idea.

    i dont mean to sound like an ass, or like a know-it-all.. but knowing any bit about engineering or physics will clearly tell you why this wont work. those little toys dont need to go very far or very fast, and they dont need to stere, stop, and regain motion every few minutes. they also dont have the forces acting on them that real automobiles do.

    theoretically speaking, you COULD engineer anything you can think of. realistically speaking, thats never the case. and even if there is a feasible way to do it, what usually ends up ruling is whether theres a feasible FINANCIAL reason to do it.

    but hey, doesnt mean it wouldnt be fun to try to design it anyway ..

    trust me man, that wouldnt work. if youd like to know the full on 8-page explanation, PM me or something.. id be happy to explain. - JAG
    it's only after you've lost everything, that you're free to do anything..

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by el coro
    i had this idea recently. instead of burning coal, using nuclear power, or any other dirty method of producing energy, why dont we breed millions of hamsters, and put them in hamster wheels that are hooked up to generators so they generate a small amount of power. if we did enough of them i dont see why we couldnt run the world off hamster power...i have also been thinking of how cool it would be if someone could invent a tree that grows money AND ice cream. thats killing 2 birds with one stone!-c36
    LMFAO!

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  7. #6
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    It's not a ridiculous idea.
    In fact, many people have built prototypes.
    We even use simlar technology in todays hybrids.
    When you brake in an electric car, the cars momentum powers up its motor.
    That way, the power lost by braking is captured and re-used.
    same principle.
    Even clocks and watches work the same way.

    Run a search on flywheel cars, you'll find the results interesting:
    http://www.damninteresting.com/?p=264

    I remember reading somewhere a while back that one of the main problems with a car like this is the incredible tension the main torsion spring would be under.
    If it ever came loose (like in an accident), it would rip everything around it to shreds.
    - Dan Dos Santos
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    I think the word 'crank' summed it up well...

    just messing

  9. #8
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    Actually this concept was used before we got charged batteries for the startengines.
    "Master storytellers never explain. They do the hard, painfully creative thing-- they dramatize"

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  10. #9
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    Well I'm an industrial engineer and i could give a few explanations why not but i would bore myself too death and some of them are mentioned above.
    It isn't a new idea, it isn't safe enough and it's not efficient enough(you still would have to cranck it up somehow)

    Hamster power rulez
    New Idea for Car Engine
    Last edited by Uziel; April 18th, 2007 at 05:31 PM.
    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."

  11. #10
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    Basically what you're suggesting is to take the motor out of the car and putting it at the cranking station. You still have to generate that energy, whether you're doing it inside the car, or generating it outside and transferring it into a spring through cranking. The real problem comes in generating that power.



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  12. #11
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    The cranking stations could easily be electrical I would think.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chariot
    No gas, no oil, no nothing really...
    The gas (or coal or wood or other fuel) would be burned at a plant elsewhere to be turned into electricity which would then be used to turn the crank in the car. Oil would still be necessary in the engine - all moving parts must be lubricated in order to not seize up. (Except in toy cars, which aren't expected to last.)

    As for the spring, there are physical limits of scale within which mechanical devices function. Those limits are imposed by physics and by the materials available to us. With a spring, it is quite likely that in order to double the power output, the size of the spring would have to be quadrupled. By the time the spring is large enough to provide ample power for a car, it would be so big and heavy that it couldn’t possibly be carried by a car.
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

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  14. #13
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    *cough* first law of thermodynamics *cough*

    Or more succinctly, no free lunch.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by el coro
    i had this idea recently. instead of burning coal, using nuclear power, or any other dirty method of producing energy, why dont we breed millions of hamsters, and put them in hamster wheels that are hooked up to generators so they generate a small amount of power. if we did enough of them i dont see why we couldnt run the world off hamster power...i have also been thinking of how cool it would be if someone could invent a tree that grows money AND ice cream. thats killing 2 birds with one stone!-c36

    If you had a tree that could grow ice cream, why the hell would you need money??

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    When I read this initially I knew that there would be any possible way for making a practical functioning car with a "crank-up" method. Even people who are working on ways to develop electrical powered cars have difficulties figuring out methods on how to effeciently store the power and that technology is widely experimented with. I saw something interesting on a show a couple of weeks back. There was this guy in France I believe that was using compressed air to power the vehicle. The problem with that idea is that once the compressed air is finished (and it would deplete rather quickly) you would need to go to some sort of station where you can refill the the compressed air the irony is, is that the same people who designed this car actually use a compressor that actually uses air to create the compressed air. What they are trying to figure out now is how they can put that air driven compressor on the vehicle to continuously feed the tanks with air. Just imagine driving a car that would always have means of powering itself just by moving. You could drive forever and never have to refuel. The best thing is that it would cost only about 15k to own one...
    Mainloop- man i must be dyslexic.. cuz i thought you asked how many people are on lsd

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    Vigostar, I suggest you acquaint yourself with conservation of energy and its consequences for 'type 1' perpetual motion systems such as the one you just described. In short a car that powers itself in the way you describe is over 100% efficient, and I doubt that they are trying to figure out how to do this unless they are cranky or trying to attract gullible investors. Which is admittedly common enough.

    But there's certainly nothing precluding using compressed air (run through a turbine) to drive a car. It's quite doable and modestly extreme pressures with the size of tanks that can fit in a car can last a viable distance. You also only need one gear iirc.

  18. #17
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    this is much more feasable and much more attainable:

    http://hytechapps.com/company/press

    if you wanna see more just search youtube for 'water as fuel'.. tons of vids. - JAG
    it's only after you've lost everything, that you're free to do anything..

  19. #18
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    Hey Vigo - There is the pneumatic electrical hybrid car that "elimnates the need for fuel", or so it says. This may be what you were talking about?



    Quote Originally Posted by Slash
    If you had a tree that could grow ice cream, why the hell would you need money??
    Money flavored ice cream!!

  20. #19
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    but why would you need money flavored ice cream? i dont know about foreign currency, but i've had norwegian money, and thats not very tasty at all.

  21. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slash
    but why would you need money flavored ice cream? i dont know about foreign currency, but i've had norwegian money, and thats not very tasty at all.
    So what about Ice-cream flavoured money, then you can eat your money AND plant it to make more trees! That's two birds with one stone!
    Brendan Noeth


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  23. #22
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    Do you realize where a lot of money has been?!?

  24. #23
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    If your money tasted like ice cream you wouldn't put in your ass, you'd probably put it in your mouth or under your nose.
    Brendan Noeth


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  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowlin
    Do you realize where a lot of money has been?!?

    Thats probably why it wasnt very tasty at all.

  27. #26
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    lmao, this thread is total tits and ice cream.
    Brendan Noeth


  28. #27
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    Snarvs- Im not really sure what that all that stuff you just said really means but, ok... It was a show on tv about future cars and how different technologies are looking for alternate ways to power cars.... the French guy that designed the car had a protoype made.. their next step was trying to figure out how to incoorporate the compressor onto the car without making it super heavy and unefficient... It would be the first self sufficient car from what it says... Wish I remember it was on.. im sure you would find it more interesting then i do cuz you seem to know your shit...
    Mainloop- man i must be dyslexic.. cuz i thought you asked how many people are on lsd

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  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAG.
    this is much more feasable and much more attainable:

    http://hytechapps.com/company/press

    if you wanna see more just search youtube for 'water as fuel'.. tons of vids. - JAG
    Hehe, not quite. This process involves seperating Hydrogen and Oxygen using electrolysis, and then using that gas to run the car. Electrolysis, as the name suggests, requires electricity. We can already run cars on electricity alone, so using electricity to create a gas which the car runs on is just adding an unneccessary step which reduces the efficiency of the engine even further.

    It's a scam, and an old one at that.


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    yeah its pretty old.. but i brought that up to show that there are other and better ideas out there than a 'crank-up car'.. the driving force behind that method is not so much about efficiency as it is using a renewable and readily available fuel. you're right about the use of electricity to release the gas, but hows that any different than refining gasoline, or recharging battery cells. electricity [or other energy] will be used no matter what method is selected. but the problems of sourcing, retaining, and re-using fuel is easily solved this way. hypothetically speaking..

    i remember that article about the pneumatic car. another good idea, but like it states, maybe not the easiest to support. thats also another HUGE factor in deciding what technology gets developed and which doesnt.. public response. unfortunately there are thousands of good ideas that slip by because either most people dont know about it, dont understand it, or just wont support it. - JAG
    Last edited by JAG.; April 19th, 2007 at 03:40 PM.
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  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAG.
    yeah its pretty old.. but i brought that up to show that there are other and better ideas out there than a 'crank-up car'.. the driving force behind that method is not so much about efficiency as it is using a renewable and readily available fuel.
    Er, what force are you talking about? If it's human arms turning a crank, try instead pushing your car. You won't get far, because the car is heavy. Put a crank and a spring between you and the movement of your car, and either you won't be able to turn the crank, or you will be able to turn it, but you'll have to turn it a million times just to drive a mile.
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

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