Aaaah, dutch art schools.
 
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  1. #1
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    Aaaah, dutch art schools.

    Arch, in Holland there are like 10 art academe's, and they all don't teach you the basics of drawing.
    THEY DON"T TEACH YOU CLASSIC ART!!!! ARCH WTF???? that are the basics?

    i mean, today i was to the HKU, the art ac. in UTRECHT.
    and i asked, and do you also teach me the classical art. like really good sketching, painting, colour theory, ore really good human anatomy.

    so i asked what will they teach me here? they said... well.... we teach you to get your ideas on a painting, and to work abstract....

    SO WTF... i don't want to work abstract. i want to work like Rembrandt, Da Vinci, Rubens etc.

    there response... well, that is what we don't teach you here???



    what are you thinking of this???... i mean, i learn more about the human anatomy in bridgman books than at that art ac...

    so, i think i will go to Antwerpen in Belgium, to learn there the craft of art.


    what are you all thinking about, the developments in this way of teaching the new generation of students at art schools?

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  3. #2
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    Jesus, not only they don't teach classic art, they don't teach syntax and punctuation either!

    I feel for you, good art schools are hard to come by, did you look for smaller ateliers? They won't give you the same diploma at the end but they will teach you the skills. You don't really need the diploma, do you?

    For sure there are illustrators in Holland, try to find one you admire and find out where they studied and if they teach.

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    Hey oma I know the problem, since I live in the Netherlands as well. I did one 'basic year' on the HKU and figured out they don't teach what I want and need to know, so I didn't take the course. I've been looking really really hard for other things in this country, and I found that there are 2 academies teaching the fundamentals for 'realistic pictures' (ie. anatomy, color theory etc). One is in Groningen and the other one's in Amsterdam.

    I know a bit about the Wackers Academie in Amsterdam since I've been there today (you should go there tomorrow (sunday) for their 'open dag'!). So far it seems to be great, but I'm still not sure, just gotta do some more research. I hope you read this on time so you could visit them and gain some info yourself. Anyway, some examples of what they teach are color theory, anatomy, model drawing, portrait drawing, model painting, portrait painting and some more stuff. Just check it out and see for yourself

    Last edited by Coen; March 31st, 2007 at 08:45 PM.
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  5. #4
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    I know oma, the dutch art schools are quite horrible when it comes to basics like good sketching, lifedrawing, colours etc.. I went to the previous 'open dag' at the HKU, and I flipped though a book of lifedrawing stuff from a 2nd year illustration student.. My lifedrawing stuff was ten times better (and I'm definately not really good at lifedrawing or anything.

    I've decided to go study Game Design and Development at the HKU, this is not so much based on drawing skills, more on the design and creative proces of making games, but I found it the best education that they had to offer by far , for me anyways.
    If you really want those solid traditional skills you should definately look for smaller ateliers, or maybe that thing in Belgium, I don't really know about that.

    good luck!!
    Marleen

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    You all surprise me. I love Rembrandt and as a young artist was very influenced by hours spent in the Rembrandt House looking at very small etchings and some marvelous drawings, one of a lion.I also love Vermeer. I'm saddened to read your comments. If you can afford $9500 a year tuition, and $700 a month for room and board, you might want to take a look at the Max the Mutt website, www.maxthemutt.com. I think we offer what you are looking for. If you decide you're interested and want more information, or to be put in touch with some of international students, just let us know (admissions@maxthemutt.com). We are located in Toronto.

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    I hear you!

    I got so frustrated and disappointed with the dutch art academies (ESPECIALLY the HKU) that I decided to take a totally art-unrelated course at the university of Leiden and just keep on studying art on my own, taking lessons in my spare time from people who actually do know something about drawing and enjoy teaching people like me.

    For now I'm pretty happy with that decision, for I truly think I'm making more progress on my own than I would've if I did go to one of "our" art academies, no kidding. :/ An acquitance of mine is in his second year of Game Design and Development, and quite frankly, he has ways to go on every aspect of drawing, especially anatomy and lifedrawing, seeing how he's still lodged as deeply inside this heavily (to me unattractive) anime style as he was two years ago. This is all fine and dandy, seeing how he has never studied basics like proportion and anatomy, but it shows. So bad. He's had two years of so-called professionals guiding him, but I have yet to spot improvement in his work.

    In the future, I might consider going to Belgium too, but for now, I think I made the right decision for myself, seeing how gravely lacking the dutch art academies are when it comes to the fundamentals of drawing. It's sad, really, especially if we think of the great masters the Netherlands produced in a far past.

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    Well, I know the problem too, but the 'trick' with the HKU is that you have to search for the real art thing. On the 'open dag' I spoke with some students, and they made clear that the real lessons are starting after school: anatomy classes, animation lessons and coloring are mostly taught by other students, in their own spare time. So if you wanna study on a Dutch art school, it is recommended that you not only follow the regular lessons but also spend time with other students. In that case, the school isnt that bad: real art is inside people, not always in their education...

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    Hey I vaguely heard about some art academy in Groningen, which focuses on classical realism. I'm really not sure of the name of it, and I can't seem to find a decent website, but it could be this one: http://www.academieminerva.nl/. I'll try to find some more info about, any tips are more than welcome.

    EDIT: Just found the right website: http://www.klassieke-academie.nl/. Forget about the other link, it's another school, I'm sorry for the confusion.

    Last edited by Coen; April 9th, 2007 at 09:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oliebol
    An acquitance of mine is in his second year of Game Design and Development, and quite frankly, he has ways to go on every aspect of drawing, especially anatomy and lifedrawing, seeing how he's still lodged as deeply inside this heavily (to me unattractive) anime style as he was two years ago. This is all fine and dandy, seeing how he has never studied basics like proportion and anatomy, but it shows. So bad. He's had two years of so-called professionals guiding him, but I have yet to spot improvement in his work.
    I think the Game Design is not so focussed on drawing and sketching, they want to teach you a broad basis, and later you can specialize. I realize that when I go do this education I'll have to work for my own development, I won't be given much training in drawing and all that.
    I'm still not feeling sure about this decision, but I don't know anything else that I want to do. Well ofcourse I'd LOVE to attend the CA Atelier, but first of all; I won't be accepted, and second: I don't have the money, and third: it's not a "real school" so I wouldn't get a student visum and I wouldn't be able to attend.

    so well ehh I think it'll be game design after all.

    now I'm going to ask a lot of advice..
    Love
    Marleen

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    Hey NoŽ why not take a look at the two schools I mentioned? That's what I'm doing now, just gathering info. I didn't even know of the existence of these schools for a long time, even tho I was searching for good schools. At this moment I'm considering to go the Wackers Academie..

    Klassieke Academie voor Schilderkunst
    Wackers Academie Amsterdam

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    I always thought there was a school like the ones Coen is mentioning near the Waterlooplein in Amsterdam (between Mr. Visserplein and the Hortus somewhere). I can't for the life of me remember their name but it might be worth trying to find out if this would be another option for you.
    The name is really generic, but slightly different from the normal Art academies. It was supposed to teach more 'solid' / classical art techniques.

    Sorry it's so vague...

    Good luck with your choices.

    tensai


    check the Tensai Tokyo Sketch Thread (Sketchbook)

    check the Tensai Cityscapes Thread (Finally Finished)



    Quote Originally Posted by strych9ine
    Fuck backgrounds, who needs em.
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    oke, thanks everybody...

    Coen, that are to interesting links. and Minerva in Groningen should be really good to.

    but that http://www.klassieke-academie.nl/ looks really really interesting.

    i all ready have signed me in at the HKU. and i am planning to sign me in @ Minerva to. And that http://www.klassieke-academie.nl/ looks really interesting. So maybe i can sign in there to .

    and i i can't go to http://www.klassieke-academie.nl/ i will get my propedeuse at the HBO and then after a year at the HKU ore Minerva i am planning to go to an Art academe in Antwerpen.

    because you can't go to Antwerpen without a Propedeuse year of HBO in holland. it's some stupid bureaucratic whining there.

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    Tensai, you made me really curious, I gotta figure that out (it's another one than the Wackers Academie right?).

    Oma, do you know alot about the Minerva school? I can't find any decent info about that one.. The klassieke academie seems pretty nice to but I wish they had some more info on their site too (tuition? financial aid? shit like that)

    Is the Koninklijke Academie voor Schone Kunsten the academy in Antwerpen you're talking about? Didn't know that one yet. So far the Wackers Academie is most interesting to me, just sucks it's not an official state thing education with the profits of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coen
    Tensai, you made me really curious, I gotta figure that out (it's another one than the Wackers Academie right?).
    Yeah it's not the same. I would personally walk by the place for you to pick up some info if I were only still in Amsterdam. Like I said, it's between the Waterlooplein and Hortusplantsoen (which is quite a small distance). It could have been just a center for people that want to pick painting up for their hobby but it didn't look like it. And the name was something like 'Kunst Academie', or Art Academy or something generic like that - which made me think it was an annex building of a bigger institute but the work I saw inside at the time looked more traditional and solid.

    Whatever you do, I would try to look at some students and instructors work and check out some course material and go physically see the place etc.

    Have a good time.

    tensai


    check the Tensai Tokyo Sketch Thread (Sketchbook)

    check the Tensai Cityscapes Thread (Finally Finished)



    Quote Originally Posted by strych9ine
    Fuck backgrounds, who needs em.
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  16. #15
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    I think I found what you're talking about, could it be the Amsterdamse Hogeschool voor de Kunsten (Academy of Fine Arts)? Their address is Hortusplantsoen 2 so I guess that's it. I'll go take a look at this school too, thanks!

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    Yup Coen i meant that http://academieantwerpen.ha.be/ school in Antwerpen.

    but you can't go there without a havo diploma, only with a vwo diploma ore a MBO niv. 4 diploma, ore with a HBO propeudeuse proof certificate.

    And tensai, i think that school is for educating teachers .

    And there is @ 1,2 and 3 May an 'open dag' at the http://www.klassieke-academie.nl/.

    and sorry Coen, i didn't know much about minerva. Still searching for more info.

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    Hmm I'm not sure yet if I can make it at these 3 days, I'll see. I just found a list of art academies in the Netherlands and Belgium on Wikipedia, some of you might not know of it yet:

    http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunstacademie

    Coen

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    coel, thank you. . i will look at that later tonight!

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    heej, thanks artificial_green > annelotte.

    nice site you have.
    okay i agree with you, it's all about the attitude you have at such a school.
    and that's a good thing here in the Netherlands.
    but still, there a things in art and life you don't like, and you have to do them anyway. just to get more progress of to get you further in life ore art.

    and tháts way i wanted to go to a academic that has really classical lessons . and that will teach me all the basics and even more .

    but really thanks for the information, it's really helpfully. maybe i see you at an open day there .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coen
    I think I found what you're talking about, could it be the Amsterdamse Hogeschool voor de Kunsten (Academy of Fine Arts)? Their address is Hortusplantsoen 2 so I guess that's it. I'll go take a look at this school too, thanks!
    That's it! I didn't know it was a school for a teaching position. Looked like a normal but technique focussed art academy. Glad you found it. Good luck with everything.

    I do know some peeps how went to the Design Academy in Eindhoven. It's a different thing but if you're not going into fine arts anyway - definitely worth checking out. If their direction is what you want to do then the Design Academy is one of the better places to go to in the Netherlands. Very ambitious, quite hardcore and you'll see people doing all sorts of things on a pretty high level.

    tensai


    check the Tensai Tokyo Sketch Thread (Sketchbook)

    check the Tensai Cityscapes Thread (Finally Finished)



    Quote Originally Posted by strych9ine
    Fuck backgrounds, who needs em.
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    I haven't seen someone who mentioned KABK (http://kabk.nl). I was thinking to go there to study Fine Arts. But student’s works they showed on open day "impressed" me so much , that I've changed my decision. Have someone heard about this school? It's in The Hague.
    So I've decided to go to study to an atelier. Now I'm seeking a good one. Maybe you can help?

    By the way, useful articles about formal art education. http://www.poopinmymouth.com/tutoria..._training.html, http://www.artrenewal.org/articles/2.../richards1.asp

    You can find newer discussion of this problem here

    Last edited by OdinUa; April 23rd, 2007 at 03:11 AM. Reason: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1297385#post1297385
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  23. #22
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    This kind of makes me worry! I went to the HKU some time ago to see if it was worth anything and got the impression you were rather free to go your own way. I did notice the lack of fundamentals and wasn't thrilled by the overall quality of the work presented.
    Still, their Illustration course seemed the best I'd seen so far, in the Netherlands at least. Now I must admit I haven't seen all the schools, but I thought I'd be fine if I just learned the fundamentals myself through CA and other sources and try to apply them in school. After all, a school does give you a creative environment with people to criticize your work and help you.

    But is it really that bad at the HKU? I mean, if I would go there it would really be for the experience and not the real skills, but if they can't help me at all, it is no use. I'm only 17 now and the prospect of having to move to another country by myself kind of frightens me...so, is the HKU really REALLY bad and should I stay away from it or just go for it and see were it goes? Aahh the choices!

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