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Thread: poser

  1. #1
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    poser

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    Last edited by johnfields; March 10th, 2007 at 11:27 AM. Reason: unwelcome comments
    John Fields
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  3. #2
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    Not many professional artists (in my experience) respect Poser, or poser "artwork". In most cases, it tends to be the equivalent to cutting out pieces of other people's work and pasting it into a scene. Maybe you could give us some more details about what specific parts you're responsible for. As an example, did you model that Ed 209 robot, or is this art theft? What about the ships in the background?-they look familiar

    I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you want to work in 3d, you'd best be served by making your own models. -both for practical learning purposes, and artistic credibility. If you're just a hobbyist and just having some fun, then I suggest taking it to a poser specific forum.
    Sorry if I've been harsh, but if I didn't say this stuff, someone else would have stepped in and done so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubPablo
    I'm not trying to be a dick,
    Amazing, you ended up being one anyway.
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    I'm one of those hobbyists, but I have to admit, I can see where he's coming from. When you're looking at a CG work, it's difficult to tell who's really responsible for the result, and whether it's the realization of a vision through the producers' own effort, or just a pastiche of pretty elements thrown into a composition with hit-or-miss aesthetics.

    But imagine if you were working in a medium where your brushes and pens and pencils couldn't be applied, and the tools that you had to rely on were other works of art, works that you either can't or won't take the time to master yourself. And some of those works were only incidentally art created by technicians and craftsmen.

    I'll also admit that it's not even a collaborative 'art' like film likes to believe it is, many who want to create works in CG don't even get involved in a team, they simply have to wait to snatch up for free or purchase brushes that will leave the strokes that match their vision.

    And of course others can ham-handedly mash together whatever is in reach and defy probability by producing something of aesthetic value. You can't hardly tell the difference sometimes, which is why it's important for the original poster to declare what of the work he's responsible for, and give credit where the credit is due.
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by SubPablo
    Not many professional artists (in my experience) respect Poser, or poser "artwork". In most cases, it tends to be the equivalent to cutting out pieces of other people's work and pasting it into a scene. Maybe you could give us some more details about what specific parts you're responsible for. As an example, did you model that Ed 209 robot, or is this art theft? What about the ships in the background?-they look familiar

    I'm not trying to be a dick, but if you want to work in 3d, you'd best be served by making your own models. -both for practical learning purposes, and artistic credibility. If you're just a hobbyist and just having some fun, then I suggest taking it to a poser specific forum.
    Sorry if I've been harsh, but if I didn't say this stuff, someone else would have stepped in and done so.
    Funny, I am willing to bet that you didnt make the puter and all components you use...I am willing to bet you didnt write the program you use either. yet I doubt anyone would say you arent entitled to claim credit when you make something on your puter.
    with that said, I will note, yes, I am a professional artist, yes I have a few awards under my belt, yes I use poser along with a multitude of other programs.
    and Until one of the "elitists" tell me and prove to me they make every single item they use from scratch be it a puter, a pen, a sable haired brush or grow the very wood their paper is made from I will stand on the point that art is not made by a program but by a person. by imagination, by creativity and most of all by their passion. And that the tool used is just that a tool.
    so while you didnt wish to sound like a "dick" you have most eloquently shown how very apt you are at being one.
    Oh and poser is used more often then you would think.
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  7. #6
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    I think the problem he is refering too is someone buying poser, downloading some character meshes, sticking them in a scene he also downloaded off daz3d, and calling it art.

    Poser is a tool like any other. But some people think that posing off the shelf components automatically makes them a artist.
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    I was pretty sure I'd rile a few feathers here, but I felt what I had to say held enough useful advice to make it worth posting.

    The fact is, I see a lot of work like this online, and in demo reels from applicants looking to get into the game industry. It's always really depressing to see someone fool themselves into thinking they've got a chance at our studio showing poser work like this. It really shows that they don't know thing one about creating 3d work. -I'm not saying this is you, this is explaining my mindset towards programs like Poser, and Bryce.

    I'm sorry you felt you needed to delete your post (Reason: unwelcome comments), but having 96 posts to your name, you've obviously been around for awhile, so you should know by now that you shouldn't start a thread on CA if you're not prepared to get comments, either good or bad. I know it sucks to post something and not get the comments you were hoping for, but one critical comment is usually worth 10 standard asspats you might see on other forums. That's what makes CA stand out -If you want to improve your art, post on CA. If you want to improve your ego, post on Deviant Art. Incidentally, a great place to get a good critique on 3d work is http://polycount.com/

    I feel what I said was honest feedback, from a professional game artist's point of view. Poser is just a tool of course, but as far as 3d goes, it tends to be the equivalent of 3d clipart. If you're serious about learning 3d, I suggest grabbing a free trial of 3dsMax, or the free stripped down version GMAX, and giving that a shot. If not, by all means don't let me ruin your fun with poser, but it will most likely place it's own limitations on your work.


    Bathoy: That seems to be a recurring theme with me

    DarkElegance: You sound like you're trying to defend the idea of art theft. By your rationale, since I didn't make my computer and software myself, I should be entitled to cut and paste other people's art together and call it my own? I think you're confusing the tool with the product. There's a difference between using premade tools to make art, and using premade art to make art. I suggest posing this question in the General Discussion section. It'd be interesting to see more people's views on this.
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    I do not think you commented his picture. You asked him if he modeled that robot or if it was theft, completely ruling out that he may bought it, or downloaded it as freestuff somewhere, which is not unusual in the poser community. Do you know that robot and have ANY proof or evidence that he actually STEAL it? I have a lot of stuff for poser on my hard disk, paying money for most of it and got the rest for free legaly. Do you call me a thief, Jeremy Miller?

    The homepage of conceptart.org does not say this place is for professionals only, but for artists. Have you to model everything by your own to qualify as artist? So an artist would not buy, for example, plants and trees as meshes for the background, but model that by himself? Would not use premade textures, but make them by himself?

    By the way, gmax is IMHO licensed only for making stuff for games which support gmax. While it is possible to export stuff and use it otherwise doing so would not be perfectly legal. Correct me, if I say something wrong here. Suggesting free modelers like Wings or cheap ones like Silo would probably better.

    Some people use poser als 3d clipart. Does that mean that is not art? There are some pictures in our art museum here in town wich are simply assembled stuff, glued and stitched together as some kind of picture. That is not art? You should have told them, they payed money for that, and you have to pay to see it.

    I have not seen the picture, i cannot say if it was art or not. From you "critique" I just know he was using poser and had a robot inside. Im my intention, art has more to do with expression and intention than with tools.

    Probably you are skilled, otherwise you would not be that arrogant. In my opinion, your comment was not helpfull in any way.
    Last edited by Uwe_Schmidt; March 12th, 2007 at 12:08 PM.
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    By the way - the robot can be found here:

    http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPrevie....cfm/ID/323267

    Free for everyone to use. Theft?
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  11. #10
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    For the many communities as I frequent, it's sad to see Poser users get their hand slapped or have others back them up. They are so shunned that they have to share their ideas/work with only "their kind".

    I would hate to think that I would have to give birth to my own models before being considered a true portrait photographer, or build a barn and mountain to be considered a true landscape photographer. That's all Poser is.. it's a "model in a box" program. I personally use it to set-up light sources, rough poses with alternate camera views... it helps me greatly in what it is that I want to do in painting and/or drawing. Plus, an excellent proggie to do animatics.

    John>
    Don't be embarrassed of using Poser. If you find a use for it, go for it.

    SubPablo>
    This isn't a strike against you at all. You see things wrong with the use of Poser and I can understand that. Soooo many "professionals" say the same identicle thing, whether it be elitist OR because of factual incidents due to peoples misuse of the proggie. But, John only stated in his original post on how he underestimated Poser, and that was pretty much it. A very vague post with a picture, which the most important reply to his post/topic should have been, "how did you underestimate it?"

    I'm curious on how John benefits from this. Maybe his upcoming reply can have others understand its uses besides what so many are familiar with through the DAZ/Poser Pro/Renderosity world. I would like new insight on the uses of Poser from such a person as John.

    oh... *note*
    I don't consider what John had posted as being "art theft" or similar. Because he used models from elsewhere and didn't credit them don't mean a thing. It was a simple pic with a vague description. That's all. If he was a photographer who shot a child wearing Levi's for a Sears catalogue (which don't credit the models), is the photographer a theft? And of course... this can go on forever with the pointless and neverending "what's art" debate.
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  12. #11
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    Basically... Poser is exactly what it's name state's.

    It's for poseurs.
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    Do you know that by experience or by divine intervention? How many poser users do you know?
    Your sig say you are admin here, is that the site policy that poser users should not taken seriously?
    ´
    I mean, Manifestant and DarkElegance said they are using Poser. Are they Poseurs as well?
    Last edited by Uwe_Schmidt; March 12th, 2007 at 12:46 PM.
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    The poser thing is always a hot topic. Whoever made the statement that you have to invent software and build a comupter in order to claim cg art as your own, frankly dude, I don't widdle my own pencils, but I don't credit the
    3M corp. for my handdrawn stuff either. Poser is a program designed to claim other's artwork as yours in a mix bag. But users will defend it viciously, sort of like how alcoholics say they don't have a problem. I have seen some nice poser pics, but I don't understand why you don't just learn Maya, ZBrush, or 3DSM, and then it would all be your work, and can be judged as such. And don't complain about the price, If you wanna do 3D it's worth it, if your a hobbyist then Poser is a fine form of drag and drop art.
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