Year, I am no way near as good as you... so I'm not going to try and criticize you at all firstly because it all looks sweet as and lastly because i only criticize something that I could do myself.
By the way I have had a look over this thread a few times when I needed help in my anatomy studies. You studies into poses and the human and animal anatomy have helped dramatically improve my understanding of the structure and shading of the external appearance. I have a ridicules amount of study to do before I can confidently draw up a full body sketch well but I am only 18 so I have some time to get my structure up to scratch.
Thanks for your thread and I hope your work Improves as well!
remmy: thank you for your comments about my work, I'm glad it's helped you somewhat! However, I think it's my responsibility to tell you that I'm lacking in the areas you cited, and to really learn you should look at masters of drawing like rubens, sargent, etc best of luck to you with your studies!
Here's the finished perspective drawing....I'm actually really dissatisfied with it....it turns out that I screwed up the vanishing points (it's a long story, but I know what's wrong). Anyway, I'm doing another one later on.
Also, here's a 50 min portrait of my friend Sean in drawing class (conte, about 8 x 10")
And Vilppu class drawings....I hated the ones I did this week, but I again feel like I learned a lot....He gave me some crits on my pervious animal drawings and pointed out that I lack an understanding of the bone structure and my drawings are suffering because of it.....off to the bones it is then!
Great to see your still at it and cranking out some nice studies! I really like the 50min portrait you did in drawing class... I only wish I could draw a portrait that fast and have the confidence of line that you demonstrate. Keep it up, your progress through this thread is very tangible- can't wait for page 12!
reidaj: thanks! the portrait wasn't drawn that confidently, I just sketched it out in vine and wiped it out, then went in with the conte over the general guidelines. I can't wait to see what page 12 looks like either!
here are some more old master studies, trying to analyze the construction and gesture. I also tried to do a Michelangelo study, but it looks like crap, I didn't understand the gesture well enough, which weakened my drawing a lot. I think at this point Glenn has exposed us to all the major tools that we need to produce great drawings, I just need to digest and master all of them....and from the looks of it it's going to take a while.....a LONG while
Also, a planning page for a school painting, topic is skeletons doing something contemporary...I'm basing it off the drawing of the pensive old man in the last page
I'm following Glenn's advice and went straight to the bone section of the museum today
So I've been trying to do some studies after Rubens lately, but I keep making careless mistakes, or getting the gesture totally wrong, and the studies turn out horrible...oh well, I'll get it eventually!
also, here's some stuff from a life drawing session at USC
Well, I'm very impressed with all your work, I especially like the series of pictures of your mother you did (I'm sure they seem like a long time ago to you ). Also a little envious of your instruction; it's so obviously helping you!
Your work is inspirational. I don't have any criticism, but it seems like you're getting that professionally anyway. Keep it up!
smws: thank you for the comments, glad you like my work! Regardless of the advice I'm getting from Vilppu, any criticism is welcome here!
Note to everyone: over the course of this thread, a few people have said that they somehow feel unfit to critique, that shouldn't be the case! You don't have to be Michelangelo to tell me that I drew a head too big! Anyway, I just wanted to say that I appreciate all manner of suggestions
Also, today I began going to one of the classes offered by Chouinard at my local rec center here in LA, the emphasis today was on contour drawing and mark-making, so while my drawing wasn't as accurate as it could have been, I had a lot of fun experimenting with line. Anyway, I feel it provides an interesting counterweight to a lot of the other work I'm doing...comments and suggestions welcome
PS. i also added 4 studies of a lion fountain at school
Last edited by Ramon Hurtado; October 21st, 2007 at 01:15 AM.
Reason: added new picture
Nice studies here.
I the life work. There is a great solidity to your figures. I can see your figures in a short period of time will be very excellent. And I think you are drawing and not copying. Good work.
AztcFireFlower: thanks for the nice comments, glad to hear you think i'm not just copying!
the other day I saw my floormates sitting around "studying" and I got an idea for a painting....and they were gracious enough to continue playing videogames while I drew them Vilppu's teachings really came in handy when trying to draw them quickly...more studies to come
Also, some paintings....crucifix is 1 hr, apple is 2 hrs, plein air is about 1 hr 45 mins....i'm still having trouble photographing these paintings, getting some lens distorsion and such...eghhh.....anyways, c & c welcome
Hey Ramon, you are in Vilppu's class with me (I'm the Asian chick who always sits in the middle and drools over Vilppu's work ) - I was searching for Vilppu on CA and came across your book. Nice to see your progression here - it's clear you are a dedicated student of art and that is always inspiring. See you in class next week.
I'm amazed at how quickly you're improving in the class - it's great to see your progress! Since I draw pretty lightly with graphite I'm having trouble taking photos, but would like to put up some soon just as soon as it's safe to actually take the pics outside. See you on Tues!
In my last post I talked about the danger of seeing the human form in geometric shapes so I won't go into that now although it still applies here.
You mentioned you wanna progress to a human esthetic along the lines of
Rubens. Well, my friend Rubens for sure was not thinking of the legs and arms
as cilinders !
The biggest reason why your copy's of him look wrong is gesture. Now I can
see that gesture is something that you've probably touched upon in Villpu's
classes. After all it's something very important to animators. But the gesture
of the old masters is a different one. You have to think of the gesture as one
continuous movement throughout the body. An energy where everything else
in your drawing is based upon. Gesture should be the first thing to look for
when drawing. It is the essence of the pose ! And it should speak for itself
even if you draw it as one flowing line. Think of it as a river that runs through
the body. It never turns sharply, but always flows. And it connects the body
parts ! In Rubens the gesture is evident in every body part, connecting the
finger with the hand, hand with arm, arm with shoulder, neck and head.
It has nothing to do with action or emotion or other animator talk. This is done
with posing a character. The gesture is present in the way I describe it every
time in Rubens's paintings regardless of emotion.
Your drawings seem broken in a way. You think about fullness of form ( which
is good ) before you have the foundation ( gesture ) to build from.
Hey Ramon, thanks to you I've finally updated my dusty SB after a long while. It will be fun to compare notes. I think you're smarter to take notes in a sketchbook, whereas I've been drawing them on newsprint. It's a PITA to take pictures, heh. Anyway, please feel free to drop by and give me harsh words of critique - crits in the right spirit are always appreciated.
Ramon man...awosome..keep that study of the masters..and yes do think of geometric shapes..is all about that
if you look at some of rubens early drawings ..he is absorbing michelangelo, raphael..language...a lot of study of the antique..there are even sketches where he is transforming the Farnese hercules into cubes..He even wrote a book on thinking of the body as cilinders..cube, cones..He had an ecorche statue that could move in different positions and drew it in every aspect.. he drew from engraving a lot too..to build up that visual library...Vilppu is on the right track so do not listen to others who have not studied enough..you have to master that perpective as well..as an architect im studying the past and well is all about that geometry..also i know this might sound far fetched but..study your classics.. (comprehend your poetry ,literature..so you are able to paint subjects with meaning..allegory..learn other languages, try to play music (it will make you sensitive to art, because of its structure and rhythims Leonardo could play,sargent,michelangelo was also a poet,durer a geometrician..remember these guys especially rubens was a highly educated man) While is all about art..other subjects will help you make your paintings more representative,show a hight state of mind..right now im studying Frank Lloy Wright (some consider him a classic arquitect) is unvelibable how much this man knew..I will receive a copy of sargent murals..again there is a lot he understood about art culture..history and such..so dont neglect the other side..lay your brush aside and read..expand that mind
Art Addict: I think you hit the nail right in the head! Seriously, I know there's something about gesture that's been bothering me lately, and that river analogy is the same one Glenn uses.
Since we started focusing on construction, I've been jumping the gun in a sense and not doing as much gesture work as I should. I think Glenn would agree with every point you make (although Rubens did think of boxes, cylinders, etc), because his focus is largely on gesture too.
I think the problem is that I always thought of gesture as a line through the middle of the form ( a limb for example)...while Vilppu stresses the natural rhythm of the body, which is basically opposing curves....here's what i mean
I was struggling to come to terms with this, but I'm really grateful for your thoughtful critique, i think focusing on this problem area will help a lot
Rebecca: glad to hear I could help somehow! And I'll drop a critique once I actually find something wrong with your work!
Alejandro:[/B] Thanks man, it's funny but I'm actually somewhat upset that I dont get to read as much as I would like, but I'm taking a Russian short stories class that I really like, and I'm keeping the book to use some of them as ideas for paintings. Right now I'm thinking of doing a painting after Oscar Wilde's Ballad of Reading Gaol which is my favorite poem of all time. I might try to do some stuff based on Poe's writings too.
Anyway, thanks for dropping by, hope your studies are going well too
Here are some gestures from some people dancing
Last edited by Ramon Hurtado; October 27th, 2007 at 02:59 AM.
Ramon man...awosome..keep that study of the masters..and yes do think of geometric shapes..is all about that.......
...Vilppu is on the right track so do not listen to others who have not studied enough..
Originally Posted by GNL
I think the geometrics are very important, unless that is you wish to be model bound.
Hehehe.... well.. what can I say Panchosimpson.. it's only my humble word against that of someone else, right?
It is unnecessary to start a debate over what is right. I don't want to hijack your thread.
It was merely my intention to make you aware of a) what can be improved in your drawing and b) that not all approaches and information out there are equally useful in the development of a student.
Hey... cool stuff. I was in Glen Villpu's class too. Glen's a brilliant teacher and really knows his stuff, but it's cool that you're branching out and trying a more tonal approach. I always thought it was a little ridiculous how dogmatic the two groups of "figure drawers" in L.A were. You're either a "Glen Villpu" or "Associates in Art" guy (or at least that's what it was like for me!).
The general crit I always got was that if you're drawing from Glen's class, you're understanding and expressing, but if you draw from a tonal/realism point of view, it's "copying", which always seemed really misunderstood to me by the critics.
If you're still in L.A, you might want to check out Adrian Gottleib's studio. It would cool to see what this training you have would develop with a class or two from a great painter like that. I like sense of movement in your drawings and you have a good understanding of many things. The paintings have a nice sense of light and economy to them too.
GNL: thanks, I've been studying with Glenn once a week since september 11 of this year
Art Addict: Hi Tom, I completely understand where you're coming from, and I have my reservations about purely geometric representations of the figure (like you said, it can quickly become too generic), I'm just trying to absorb all I can from Glenn at the moment, but your advice is right on the ball and that's what I was keeping in mind when doing my SP.
Your critique about gesture was right on too, I've been reminding myself to work more on that since you mentioned it, so please keep critiquing, it's been really helpful for me thus far
Brittons: Thanks for the comments!
haha Glenn still doesn't completely like the academic methods, but a lot of people in the Glenn's class study at LAAFA too and there seem to be no issues
and you're right, Glenn is a great draftsman and great guy! What I'm trying to accomplish is to gain some of understanding of form and gesture and then apply it to more value-intensive drawings in the future
I love Adrian's work! but his studio is waaayyyy too expensive for me right now, plus I'm going to college full time...but i'd sure like to in the future
Here are some more Ruben's studies, and a study of a picture of the Farnese Hercules
Today was awesome, I was keeping Art Addict's gesture comments in mind, and I reviewed Glenn's lessons from the first few weeks, I'm finally getting that interlocking gesture concept! I think my drawings improved a little bit because of it....i still havent gotten it quite down, but i think it's better than before.
anyway, here's the stuff
PS. I also noticed that this thread recently passed 10,000 views....i know that 98% of those views are me, but I wanted to say thanks to all 3 other people that have taken the time to look through my stuff
Last edited by Ramon Hurtado; October 31st, 2007 at 02:05 AM.
the first was done in about an hour, the second in around 30 minutes....both fairly small. I still can't take decent photographs though...the temperature differences are more evident in real life and there's some glare on the tree :/
anyway, crits welcome!
Last edited by Ramon Hurtado; November 4th, 2007 at 12:49 AM.