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  1. #76
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    here's a study after Gaspar de Crayer, one of Rubens' followers in the Netherlands.


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  3. #77
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    my humble opinion

    Love to see your thread -there is always something new there!
    As it concerns to my opinion-the first portrait-the woman head-that's teriffic! And the lines look so nice and patiently drawn, with a sure hand!
    But the second one ,Gaspar de Crayer, I think there is some problem with the positions. That's quite a difficult position of the head though!

  4. #78
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    artenemy: hey nice to see you around here again!

    Glad you like the portrait of my mom, I was trying to experiment with compressed charcoal instead of vine charcoal, so I ended up hatching a lot more. This one doesn't look that much like her though, and i feel like the nose is too thin :/

    You're completely right about the problems with the Gaspar de Crayer study, I had some trouble with that one and I wasn't entirely satisfied with the result. Here's the original for comparison
    Last edited by Ramon Hurtado; July 22nd, 2007 at 03:19 PM.

  5. #79
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    pancho your copy is not bad..only problems i see is the nose and mouth they seem out of perpective..(thats mainly construction,is not easy hehe),do you have the hogarth book on drawing the head...even though his drawings are stylized the concepts explained there are very useful..drawing the life skull will improve your head drawing too..(damn i just discover that one hehe..),if you see the feeling of bones on the painting is evident,im always amazed at the masters simplicity of forms..and thats what im always trying to search for..keep working..getting better everytime..
    my new site, is crazy stuff but is my own space, I can say whatever!! hehe:
    http://theallejo05.spaces.live.com/?_c02_owner=1
    One of the art schools I respect the most:
    http://www.mimsstudios.com/philosophy.htm

  6. #80
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    hey allejo, thanks for the crit, i fully agree with you about the mouth and nose, I tried to use this as an exercise in studying abstract shapes and I still managed to screw it up :/ guess I still have a long way to go in terms of learning to see, but that just makes me want to draw more!

    I don't have the Hogarth book, but I've looked at Loomis and Bridgman's examples. Also, I wish I could draw skulls from life again, I actually did quite a bit of it in our biology classroom when I was still in high school (see examples in earlier posts). Hopefully once I go to college another nice biology teacher will let me use their collection of bones!

  7. #81
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    The college should have its own bones! If it doesn't, worry a little. Pancho, for the stage you are at, you are doing very, very well. I always try to both appreciate how far I've come, and see how far I still have to go. That way I keep striving without despairing. I've been doing that for 30 years, and its worked out well. I'm also not above asking Rembrandt to give me a hand, if he's up there.

  8. #82
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    Cow

    About Gaspar de Crayer ,u know what people say?Do it again,do it again,do it again!Ahahhahahah!
    U know.....as I start sketching someone it takes maybe 10 sketches until I start liking it!

  9. #83
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    Maxine hi Maxine, always glad to see you around here, thanks for the advice i think i gave everyone the wrong idea with my thoughts on that last unsuccessful study,but i don't get discouraged very easily when it comes to art!

    artenemy yep, you're right, and dont worry, i'm not giving up anytime soon

    newest charcoal from life

  10. #84
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    this is nice..
    my new site, is crazy stuff but is my own space, I can say whatever!! hehe:
    http://theallejo05.spaces.live.com/?_c02_owner=1
    One of the art schools I respect the most:
    http://www.mimsstudios.com/philosophy.htm

  11. #85
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    I wanna meet your mom, she looks like a nice lady!

    How large are your mastercopies by the way? When i do them i try for 18x24, on colored paper. Check out som of Prudhon's stuff, really amazing, and he had a really fun technique too, very aggressive strokes and then wipe clean and go over again and again, very beautiful.\

    now the drawings of you dad sleeping look pretty solid, but there is a certain feeling of rigidness (especially in the 20 min one), a tip from me would be to go larger, and faster, a gesture drawing is just that, a couple of lines to get the weight and swing of the pose, and then the next. for the next session try this: start off with ten 30 sec, never letting your pencil leave the page. try building the form from the inside, squiggling lines going all over the place, massing out the anatomy, the goal being to get a silouhette from all of them. another good thing (that i at first thought waS BOGUS) are blind gestures, where you don't look down at your page at all, you just try and move the medium on the material. DONT look at the page, not even once! they will look terrible, but it really trains your eye/brain/hand coordination. i find now that i can draw whilst looking at people for quite a while before looking at my page. very useful, and trains you to get that quick fleeting essence of a pose. im talking whilst sketching people around town, something i do for at least an hour every single day. its like a drug!

    cheers tim
    Last edited by timpaatkins; July 28th, 2007 at 08:50 PM.
    [url=http://galleryonefone.blogspot.com[/url] This would be my gallery in Sweden

    This would be my Pleine Air blog

  12. #86
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    Wow, pancho, I can't believe how far you've come since last year! I didn't even recognize you as the same artist; the only reason that I did was because of your college portfolio thread. Your master studies are truly awesome (especially http://www.conceptart.org/forums/att...1&d=1180220139, http://www.conceptart.org/forums/att...d=1179087694); you seem to be really mastering paint as a medium. I love your expressive style! In fact, I'm feeling a bit jealous over here!

    The only real crit that I can think to offer is that when doing more expressive, quick studies such as http://www.conceptart.org/forums/att...1&d=1179087694, try to make your lines used for rendering more directional; use them to reinforce the shape rather than just to add value. Bridgeman does a great job of it.

    But really, your thread here is an inspiration. Good luck out in the animation field--see you there soon!

  13. #87
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    the_allejo05 thank you good sir!
    timpaatkins you wanna meet my mom? hahaha i don't really know what to say...hopefully my drawings convey a fraction of what an awesome, interesting person my mom is

    Most of my master studies are more or less sight-size (originals are as big as i can print them)...so less than 8.5 x 11...Prud'hon is amazing.

    I know what you mean about my gestures, i fiddle around with them too much...i'll try to quit it

    blind gestures are fun!!! i've done quite a few lately because i've been drawing my cats and looking down at the paper wastes valuable seconds, but yeah, the results dont look too great

    thesinfulsaint heyy, glad to see you stopped by here. Your comments really mean a lot, i'm a big fan of your work I'll definitely try to focus on more directional lines to reinforce my forms, thanks for the crit!


    ok, so here's our 8th (!) charcoal portrait...wayyy different lighting, my mom says she looks younger than in the other ones (apparently that's a good thing..lol)...had a lot of fun with this one (although you'll see trouble with the eyes....again)

    also, i attached a picture of how i start a drawing, trying to focus on construction, for anyone who's interested (i lowered the eyes later in the process), anyway, feel free to rip these apart!

  14. #88
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    this is really nice..lots of personality to the eyes.. your construction is good nothing major.. this advice is for taking your drawing more finished..which obviously is not always the case..
    the next step would be to start pushing and thinking in terms of big planes of location in space (here think of perspective)..meaning how forms project in space... and this is the hardest part hehe..for example think of the closest form (which would be the tip of the nose(which you have I see the hightlight) and the farthest away which is the neck..receives less light) (imagine a profile view)..this is mentioned in the teatrise of painting by leonardo by the way)..and well start pushing your values, mostly the clue is the farther away the darker (check the drawings of leonardo ,corregio..and here the use of chiaroscuro is where the mastery is ,one creates its own values, it makes your drawings have more relievo than the flat ones of the subsequent centuries..)
    so for example if you darken (with a light wash of tone of charcoal) your ears ,and make the shadow of the neck a bit darker than them you start playing with translucent planes in space ,go patiently you dont want to go opaque in the shadows..thats why you put a wash of tone, little by little, you can also brake down more the forms on the face,although on a female the simpler the better, hints of bony protrucions on the cheeks..in the under part of the ear at right there should be a clear outline for the lobe of the ear..you can develop the inner strutural forms of the ear forms more is too vague.., the hair while has good mass,is sketchy and it looks messy as if your mom has not combed that morning hehe..hair has design to it..flow of lines..comb it as your own..
    things that can be improved..on your shadow shapes , you are still having them too sharp..feather them ..like under the nose and under the mouth (it looks like a black blot not shadow) when you draw them literally think is on top of the form below as if your drawing a veil over it....the lower form of the lip is not clear enough..on the nose, lose those lines that separate the wings..(i know you did them to guide you in construction but for taking it into a more refine drawing those should be gone..), i think the eyebrows should be a bit darker judging from her hair...there is a line on the upper left close to the brow that i dont like (i know is to indicate the front plane but should be lost)

    always remember that the sketchiness you see on the masters is because they could also take things to completion (mostly on their paintings), you can see finished drawings here and there...most of them where destroyed in the process of transfering.. I know i suffer from the same illness hehe..sketchy is good it denotes sensitivity,but finishing whithout losing the life is the one that is the hardest.. think of your drawing maybe as a sculpture, you start big massess ,chisel there and here..start shaping forms up..then the lustre and the beautiful finish..again it depends on the goal of drawing off course sometimes you are after expression or just need a quick referense..but exactness and clearness of forms (like all the masters that was their beginnings)...is first ..then looseness comes naturally,atmosphere..etc..even though you can be lose I know....thats why you can rework a drawing again and again..I know im not the best example hehe..but truly I shoot for that especially if I want to call something done...keep working man you get better everytime..and again when in doubt look at those masters .. next time tone that paper!!!
    my new site, is crazy stuff but is my own space, I can say whatever!! hehe:
    http://theallejo05.spaces.live.com/?_c02_owner=1
    One of the art schools I respect the most:
    http://www.mimsstudios.com/philosophy.htm

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  16. #89
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    allejo: thank you for the thoughtful suggestions. I believe I understand what you mean about darkening forms to make them recede in space, but I think you're referring to the old chiaroscuro concept where the painter creates his/her own values, not necessarily those found in nature. If that's the case, I don't feel
    like I'm at that point yet, as I don't feel that I'm completely able to copy the values in front of me, much less be able to create my own.

    Moreover, darkening forms is a sort of trick used to make forms recede, and it is not always the case in nature. The more accurate way that I try to follow is using less contrast to make forms recede in space.

    As to the sketchiness, well, I usually only have 2-3 hours to work on these, and my focus is mainly on construction and values, not rendering. I'm sure I'll produce more finished drawings once I'm enrolled in a long pose head drawing class, but that is not the case right now.

    And that drawing was actually done late in the evening, so my mom's hair was a little messy

    here's our work for the day...left eye is higher than right eye...eghhh.... i think the problem is more obvious in the finished charcoal than in the construction drawing, so I'll have to be more careful next time...

  17. #90
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    good stuff, keep it up.

    that Gaspar de Crayer painting looks like Tiger Woods.

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