Art: Studies.....from life and from the masters - Page 10

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  1. #271
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    Hey Ramon ! Sorry to hear you had a rough week. Sounds good to be working on a comic though and yep, I can empathize with you on having a bad drawing week - hell, it seems I'm having a bad drawing month ! I seem to have hit a plateau and now I'm going over all of my drawing procedures and habits with a fine tooth comb. It sucks. Anyway, be well and I'll see you Tuesday !

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  3. #272
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    Brendan, I hate that plateau thing! The problem with me is that I was studying anatomy like crazy over winter break, I internalized a lot, but when I stopped practicing it obsessively because I was working on the comic book it started slipping a little bit.....plus my understanding is very general...not really nuanced enough to produce really kickass imagery....anyway, gotta push onwards, see ya tuesday!

    My friend Kristina was kind enough to pose last night/this morning....midnight painting woo!!!! It's been about a month since I did a portrait and I was really rusty at the beginning, I think it more or less pulled together at the end though...although I like my last portrait better.

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  4. #273
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    I like this last one! Nice work...

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  5. #274
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    Thanks Tim!

    So, today I went to Glenn's class again! ahh it was fantastic!

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  7. #275
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    Looks like you had beans for lunch ... ha ha ha

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  8. #276
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    hahah breakfast and dinner too.....just beans all the time

    Here's a plein air for the day

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    Last edited by Ramon Hurtado; March 2nd, 2008 at 12:17 AM.
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  9. #277
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    Studies from the our 2nd anatomical drawing society meeting..

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  11. #278
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    Some more drawings from Will's class

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  13. #279
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    study after velazquez, not too great, but I learned a bit more about brush handling and painting across the form

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  14. #280
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    research!!! These are about 20 mins each, I was really trying to figure these guys out....except my time was cut short because the museum closed....interestingly enough, a national geographic film crew was in the same room as me the whole time, shooting footage of one of the "terror birds"

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  16. #281
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    copy of an academic drawing by joseph negre, some perspective work

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  18. #282
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    You've improved loads, man. Your figures are great, and the oils are getting better too.

    I especially like your ink work; just something about that graphic line. Really gets me.

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  19. #283
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    nice work pancho, i'll be tough with you your figure drawings are excellent ,but your aim (or at least this is my opinion) is to create a pleasing nude, aesthetically actractive, if you see the work of the masters most of their work was towards that objective because your work should appeal to others,thasts why they study the antique alla par with life..aim for good physiques, that is where is the language of anatomy most expressed, I know the models are not the best (of what i see), model is only reference to what you create in your mind, ad muscles even if they dont have them (do you see any drawings of the masters look like regular people??nope..they are all transformed by the artist, even in the more naturalistic of the painters (like velazquez,or sargeant,vandycke) A good advice for you is to practice from your mind, and get good copies of finely drawings, even check the comic book section to see that an atractive female is more athletic..look around magazines..study those proportions, what people like..in the past was the all greek look now what people (your eventual audience) consider aesthetic. I know the painter sees beauty everywhere, but a classical painters looks for universal, not particular beauty.
    I like your landscapes ,but i think a more serious study of trees will help you more, again look at the masters, corot more naturalistic, look for engravings..is all about learning a language (how to represent things) at least in your student days, then you will be open to nature, I was doing just what you did..going straight to nature (which is not bad) but then i realized that most of the masters learned ways to do it..be it from his master or from other artwork..then you use your own interpretation, but the assimilation takes years and is hard..I consider doing from nature kind of easy,but still it doesnt look refined ,nor aesthetic enough.
    Like your studies of bones of animals that is the way to go..get a cheap how to draw animals (believe or not im learning from this guy Christopher heart), and these will help you on your knowledge.
    great studies of objects, i would like to see car studies, is really a hard subject to draw,but i think is a must because we live in a modern era ,and somehow you will have to represent that, try also a few hardscapes (arquitecture), some plant studies, drapery, I mean we as painters, like leonardo said must be able to represent all things visible .
    Try some imaginative drawing,that is truly important even if you name yourself a student of nature. hmm what else, yeap perspective,keep at it, i have been studying that subject for a long time and still is hard,even for an architecture student like me.
    Like your velasquez portrait, I think you should restudy your features, eye, nose, mouth, what is their exact structure. I know these are just studies but try to be less textural in your paint..things have texture, and your skin should read like skin..not textural marks, the hair..feel it , the mustache feels like paint not hair..think of the things you draw, somehow they will show up in your painting, like in your asian friend portrait..i see that you are overthinking structure it feels to stiff..think of her moist lips, moist eyes, dry skin, taught ,strong in other parts, dont go to quick!! caress that hair
    go back to still life painting..I like to see one fruit..only one..painted into the utmost, clinical eye, detail, hard very hard..almost photorealistic(this is not art obviously,but is good practice for learning detail and textures)..i think this will slow down your eye and hand a bit

    Last edited by the_allejo05; March 9th, 2008 at 04:06 AM.
    my new site, is crazy stuff but is my own space, I can say whatever!! hehe:
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    One of the art schools I respect the most:
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  21. #284
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    drd: thanks!

    allejo: thank you for the excellent critique, I think you put into words a lot of the things I've recently felt are wrong with my studies. I'll definitely push harder in the landscapes, perspective studies and I'll restudy the features (this is long overdue). I'll respond to the other points you make in a future post.

    Here are various studies, anatomy, copies of 19th century academic drawings, and cornwell studies (saw his murals again today!!! )

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  23. #285
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    Your drawing is looking really great. Your paintings on the other hand ...

    A good simplified technique is to paint in black and white first and then colour afterwards. Use Ivory black mixed with a little Raw Umber to "warm it up". And then with varying amounts of Titanium white mix up five gradations in tone from your warm black to white (can even mix your white with a little yellow ochre to get away from the cold deadness). On the first pass do the big two tone lay out (half close your eyes and look to divide the model/image into two tonal shapes one your warm black and then other your warm white. Concentrate on getting the edges right - hard, soft, lost. Then model between those forms using your other tones and knowledge of forms such as blocks, eggs, cones, cylinders (large mass to small mass). Once the value layer is correct and dry you can paint right over this warm gray underpainting with the right colours squinting to make sure the values are right i.e. if you squint and the colour you are about to apply... say red blends to be even with the value of what ever particular shape you are working over. at the moment you are losing all your colour.

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  24. #286
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    hey draw, thanks for the comments, could you elaborate more on what is at fault with the paintings? I think that your suggestions are aimed at getting better color values, which is in fact something I've been thinking about lately. I think the biggest problem is that I haven't been as careful with my color mixing as I have been in the past and as a result my oils are suffering, in cases when I've been more careful
    http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...n/matt-low.jpg
    http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...mpson/TREE.jpg
    http://conceptart.org/forums/attachm...1&d=1201602195
    http://conceptart.org/forums/attachm...1&d=1198285465

    I think the results have been more successful.
    At any rate, I think I'm going to be doing some grisaille studies from master paintings, which should help in the areas I am weak in, but again, I'd appreciate it if you could elaborate on what's currently wrong.

    For now, here are some more studies after cornwell, one after rafael and another after giulio romano

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  25. #287
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    These do look better, but could be better drawn and more attention to edges. What I noted was that the skin looks pasty on those last to portraits - To much white to find the value.

    In reality there is a lot of grey tones in nature and the black and white mixes as I described above can get you a long way towards the illusion of life. In any case they will thoroughly clear up the idea of tone / value in your mind. Which is the real problem - not colour, thats just the spice to give you your specific flavour. Tone is the most important after drawing.

    An artist must - half close his eyes - to see tones or, the darks in relation to the lights. Half closing your eyes will also help your drawing be more correct (because you are only focussing on 2D shapes) and help you clarify your edges which are the third most important after drawing and tone. Some edges you will see are sharp when "Squinting" (half closing your eyes) - these are hard edge and readily draw the eye, some will get fuzzy - soft edges, and some will disappear into the background - lost edges. You definitely need all of these types of edges to do interesting work as the human eye loves the variety. Its all about tone though, making sure that a graduated set of value shapes have been found and correctly model the subject and to do this correctly you must half close your eyes at your subject but not at your canvas. Its a skill.

    Needless to say if you are going to plow on with guessing colours in a direct manner, try mixing up say, a set of graduated pinks and yellows or reds or whatever you think may be appropriate to the particular subject, before you start, and don't go all the way to pure white i.e. have a prepared pallet. This will lessen the chance of you wanting to add to much white giving that pasty appearance.

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  27. #288
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    Here's an example of a prepared pallet sorry about the quality but you get the idea.

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  29. #289
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    Draw: Duly noted, I'll be starting a bunch of grisailles to address this problem (I already made a sargent copy that I need to photograph). Thanks for the clarification!!!

    Here are more drawings, I'm really trying to understand how things fit into one another, and making my conceptions of anatomical forms more specific
    To this end, I created two rough studies from imagination, the standing model and christ, based on what I've learned from Glenn and Will, these were about 15-20 mins, but I was excited because I feel that their teaching is really helping me understand the figure....

    Also, I'm copying assorted master works to see how anatomical forms are indicated and such.

    Oh and I used the money I earned from my comic book commission to buy a plastic skull, it should be arriving next week, I'm excited!

    -Ramon

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  31. #290
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    our long portrait of my mom (conte, watercolor and a little bit of marker.....i ran out of watercolor halfway through), hopefully doing another one tomorrow.

    edit: ha! I just realized that in my carelessness I violated the rule of thirds....

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    Last edited by Ramon Hurtado; March 21st, 2008 at 09:35 PM.
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  32. #291
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    Here's a portrait from today, hopefully this one is better than the previous one (and its dreadfully oversized nose)..this one took much longer, I was trying to render this study more than I usually do, although I did try to create super smooth tones and instead tried to emulate Greuze's marks, which go across the form.

    Also a really bad cast drawing I did before starting the portrait

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  33. #292
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    The figure and the portrait looks very good.

    Sorry for my poor english
    My life drawings
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  34. #293
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    Me gusta todo muchisimo, Ramon. I liked the studies after the masters most, seems that you are by now extremely comfortable with copying great art. The portraits of your mother are more timid even if you articulate pretty fine the major lines.A photo would help me judge better your skill. Anyway you must be an avid learner as I see from the numerous masters you tried you hand at. The good part is that you learn quick. The less good part is that you spend a lot of time on masters and not on your family. I would have expected lots and lots of portraits of your close family as long as these studies are going to shape your personality better. By copying a master you actually copy a copy, his own particular interpretation of the real model.A hand is a part of body of a certain individual in real life. One thing is rendering a hand like El Greco for instance and another like Rubens. You can very quickly identify an artist by his manner of rendering anatomy. Always long faces, limbs, bodies with El Greco.I guess that the study of great masters is more beneficial for the eye than for the hand, unless you want to perfect the art of copying great masters.To me understanding visually the masters is a surer way that your style will not be affected too much from borrowing.
    Real people, close friends, neighbors, family, American folks would tell me more in these formative years of yours. Try with the knowledge and understanding of drawing and painting that you have so far to study people around you.By looking every day at people you meet in the classroom or elsewhere, try to memorize their features and put them on paper. I guess in this way you can experiment with another dimension of your artistic talent.

    San Diego has a large Hispanic community and to me this means a great opportunity in bringing the ethnic diversity into play on canvas; paint San Diego, paint America and forget about Rafael and the Renaissance. It's not criticism, it is constructive observation. But probably and hopefully you will move towards that later on in your career. Keep up the good work. Your are very talented for two reasons. A good eye and a quick hand.Nice meeting you, Ramon.(and because I dropped by on Easter Sunday, Pascua Florida para ti y tu familia)

    Last edited by elenaM; March 23rd, 2008 at 09:01 PM.
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  36. #294
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    nice studies..

    wow Im impressed with your last mom's portrait..a lot of great tonalities in there..the cast is also great..While I agree with elena that there is much richness in real life..this copying is helping you learn a language..a language that you are comfortable now..but you are the one that decides when you are ready to "leave " the masters and start on your own. It takes a lot of dedication to create truly great art..and by copying you are always learning..until you can do on your own what any of the masters can..i dont think you will be ready..I guess you can "feel" how much you need to improve and the masters are like your own teacher...just be patient..everytime you go back to them you learn something new..Always remember that that "Raphael learn all he could from Perugino..meaning he could do what Perugino can , and then he still went on to learn from the others masters, Leonardo, Michelangelo, Bramante and still goes..on..there is nothing wrong with copying and assimilating somebody truly great and better than you..thats the way..things are..even the great Michelangelo, Bernini ,etc learn from the greats...Do not fall in the impatience of modern man ,who thinks great art is done out of nowhere..out of talent, it is a language come down from somebody else and that is what you are doing..or at least that's what I do too , many artist just dont have the patience..or the talent for that matter to do what you are doing..just hang on..always learn from others..even if you get to be a master yourself..(which i think you will become )..but again ..study ,study, then fruits will come, you will get to have fun with "nature",but first be really confortable with it..the technical part (which is what you are learning now,what the masters have to offer you, then Poetry will come..later..because my friend you are an artist..

    my new site, is crazy stuff but is my own space, I can say whatever!! hehe:
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  38. #295
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    baretul: thanks!
    Elena: thank you for the comments, I really appreciate it. As Alejandro writes, the main reason there are more master studies than portraits of my family is because I am in the process of learning the language of drawing, of obtaining the tools necessary for expressing my ideas. The aim is not to adopt the stylistic particularities of different masters, rather it is to analyze how they express form and assimilate that into my understanding, and I harbor no fear of compromising my individuality. This thread does contain quite a few portraits of my family members, although there aren't more of my dad and my sister because my dad is almost always busy and my sister hates posing I'm in college right now and don't see them all that often.

    Integrating my culture into my work is something that's been on my mind a lot this past year, but I don't feel I'm quite ready yet, I first want to gain the skills to do these people justice on canvas....if I don't do this, it will inevitably lead to frustration and will compromise whatever message I might seek to express.

    Thanks again for your comments, you raise very valid points, and it's a pleasure to meet you as well.

    Alejandro: thanks a lot man, and don't worry, I've set my standards very very high and there's absolutely no way I'm going to settle for less

    I used the money I earned from a commission to buy a plastic skull, here's a painted study I did for fun...I'm not sure how long it took, a few hours I guess. I tried to work on values, drawing and edgework as Draw suggested......sorry for the glare, but I think you get the idea

    Also, some month old figure drawings I had forgotten to post, and other some more from yesterday

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  40. #296
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    Studies.....from life and from the masters I like this one! , you sure learnt a lot from vilpu..they are very close to his way of drawing!! I have his anatomy videos ..not all of them yet..they are really helpful...hmm sometime i got to go to california ,here in georgia art sucks..hehe..Like the painting..there is a lot of form in it..cant say much..u know what you are doing..hmm.. Im gonna study your figure drawings hehe..they help me out. Oh a pointer: next time you draw a nude again..try doing a tiny little gesture or prestudy..to get the overal fill of the pose..(about a 1 inch drawing), then draw as usual..you can see that in many drawing of the masters..a sort of warm up before the final drawing..it really helps..

    Last edited by the_allejo05; March 27th, 2008 at 01:45 AM.
    my new site, is crazy stuff but is my own space, I can say whatever!! hehe:
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    One of the art schools I respect the most:
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  41. #297
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    That's really great dude :-). I love that motion that is in your pictures. Keep going.

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  42. #298
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    alejandro: thanks man, that one's my favorite too! You really should try to come out here sometime, while Glenn's still teaching, he's going strong and shows no signs of letting up but he is 71....the best things about him are how he feels the form and stresses gesture, how inspiring his work is, and what a great guy he is in general, he's ALWAYS willing to look over people's work and help them. and thanks for the pointer, will keep that in mind

    monohate: thanks, I'm really digging your drawings too!

    PS. In other news, I think I'm going to apply for an internship at Disney in the visual development department during the summer (more or less painting and sorta like concept art), wish me luck!

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  43. #299
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    Much luck, and thanks for the great new posts, good job on the skull, and I always get inspired by your figure drawings!

    "Three's so little room for error."--Elwell
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    Cory: thanks a lot for the good wishes and comments, they really mean a lot!

    Here are some drawings from the anatomical drawing society meeting this week and some more from Will's class...he gave a fantastic head lecture, so afterwards I tried my hand at some.

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    Last edited by Ramon Hurtado; March 29th, 2008 at 09:09 PM.
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The Art Department
SpringOfSea's Sketchbook