Sketchbook: Trying to start out

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  1. #1
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    Trying to start out

    Generic "Hello I'm new" post. (No more point in leaving the sob story around anymore lol)

    Last edited by CouchPotato; May 28th, 2007 at 08:54 PM.
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  3. #2
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    Well, post some pictures to show your progress. I suggest to take some current sketches, that show your abilities at the moment or ones you consider to be the best.

    P.S. You have to post often or your thread gets lost in the forum. Keep it on the front page and you will get more critique

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  4. #3
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    Thanks man ^^

    Ok, I guess I will just put a little bit of everything, including my perspective, because I need some help with my shading.

    I also got some mannikins from Loomis' book, so I will put those up as well.

    Please give me your opinions!

    By the way, how do I put a link in my sig that will link to my sketchbook? Sorry for being noobish :o

    Edit:
    Nvm I found out ^^

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    Last edited by CouchPotato; February 27th, 2007 at 11:51 PM.
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  5. #4
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    "All quiet on the western front Sarge!"
    "Berry good soldier, but ve must keep posting! Because, some day, something vill happen!!!!
    *Gasp!*

    Just trying out some poses on my manikin because I need a break from the other front, side, back view. Didn't turn out quite well though, and took me far longer than it should have.

    Should I make my attachments even smaller?

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    Drawing the fleshed out manikin in slight perspective. Took me a long while....I think there's still some problem with bulk. Some parts of it came out ok, but some parts still look flat. Anyone care to tell me what I did wrong on that?

    Oh yeah, also, the guy's legs are off lol, doesn't seem centered. Probably too much slant in the leg or something.

    The female is like....god, I'm stupid. Supposed to be perspective but it came out looking nearly flat on. Angle I chose was wrong I guess.

    Anyone want to rip me apart? Please? XD

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  7. #6
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    Thank you for visiting my sketchbook.

    Tough love time. You will get on the stick and draw something THIS INSTANT or I will beat you severely.

    Edit: oops, I confused your reg date with the date of your last post. The threat still stands though, I want to see 10 more figures by tomorrow. I have a sock and a large bar of soap and I'm not afraid to use them.

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  8. #7
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    when u draw u obey rules to get it done properly
    know the rules - know how to draw :>

    basicly : every thing u see in your reality is a 3d object just like a cube-
    they are oriented and alligned in 3D space
    example : drawing a figure : figure contains a bunch of cylinders spheres and cubes
    once u know the orientation of the limps ( simplified form > realistic forms )
    u can change the lines to get the form shape and volume oriented inspace
    i use cubes alot because they show me where and how the 3d object is oriented in 3D space.. all objects are oriented somehow and thats what u need to understand
    u can measure any kind of orientation with a cube and angles



    everything is geometrie
    some is simple some is complex


    i like ur figures but they are flat.. they lack : third dimension * depth
    how i see figures :
    head -> sphere -> cube
    chest -> cube
    stomach -> cube
    hip -> trapezoid -> cube
    legs -> cylinders -> cube
    arms -> cylinders -> cube

    those are the pieces u have to know


    when i started drawing seriously i did cubes for 3 month
    just to get the basic idea of how to draw diffrent orientations
    it helped more then i could imagine


    keep up post more ! (check my sketchbook and see how i learn the figure and how i try to understand the figure as a 3D object oriented in space with volume mass and porportions) *cough* xD)

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  9. #8
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    Your definitely on the right track here. As for learning anatomy in a defined period of time: Fill _atleast_ one page in your sketchbook with anatomy studies every day and finish everything you start. Even if you screw up something in the beginning keep drawing and then search for errors in the finished piece, try to correct those errors in your next study. My advice would be to start with the human figure as a whole and focus on propotions, joints and stance (just as you have done). When you think you got that right start studying details like hands, muscles, faceses and what not. You'll be surprised how fast you'll progress. I'll be checking your sketchbook later for updates, cheers

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    Good advice given so far here, nothing more to say than keep yourself drawing on a daily basis, set a minimum, stick to the drawings, and do studies as much as you can so you can setup a good traditional foundation for branching out to other stuff later.

    Keep it up.

    TUNAFISH SAMMICHES?!
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    Thank you very much guys, for dropping by! First thing I did was to go to your sketchbooks and gave you my thanks ^^.

    Longxiang:
    I registered a long time back...but never picked up enough courage to really get into drawing, or put it up here for peer review. Thanks a lot for your encouragement! After seeing sideshowbob's sketchbook, lol.....I need more efforts ^^

    Sideshowbob:
    What can I say man? Your thread won't even load up properly for me lol. What's your secret? Lots of Redbull????

    Also, to what you said, I'm beginning to use the box thing that you talked about to block out my figures. I'm still trying to settle into the best way to go about it lol. I got a drawing that I was planning to finish up later, which was blocked out, I think maybe I'd scan it in and show it first to see if I'm headed to the right direction before rubbing it off lol. It'll have to be tomorrow though , coz I got no scanner. Got to go to the office.

    Zombie:
    Thanks a lot for your words man, it means a lot. Not knowing if I'm moving in the right direction is about the biggest pressure on me at the moment....When you know you're headed in the right direction, the journey suddenly becomes a lot easier.

    Sirio_Brozzi:
    Thank you Sirio, drawing everyday is defintely something I'm making a point of. Only thing is, do you have a sketchbook? : / I would like to thank you "personally", like?

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  12. #11
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    Good start with the loomis studies don't forget to try and apply these methods to your own methods of drawing, once u start studying the theories and techniques and start using with poses referenced from photographs, pictures or even your own imagination u wil get more comfortable working in this area much morte quickly.

    Why do u stick your nose in other families business'. Come on dude don't u have any HOBBIES?

    My sketchbook beckons, ave a look see?
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...09#post1212209
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  13. #12
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    Thanks for dropping by blade. I'm not yet confident enough to try my own style, but I'm confident that style will come as long as I continue. What I plan to do next is to get an actual sketchbook (lol, these aren't done in a book type of thing), then I will bring that little book with me everywhere lol. When I see a motion that I like, or even just dream up of something, I'll just do quickie stick figure drawing and flesh out from there.

    In the meantime, here's something that I drew out with the cube geometry thing suggested by sideshowbob. I finished up the lady but left the guy, so you guys can tell me if I'm doing right. I'm in the process of finishing up the guy, which I will put up as soon as I can.

    Big thanks to everyone again!

    Edit:
    Ok, the head is kinda narrow. which I WILL fix......anything else I did wrong guys?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CouchPotato
    Big thanks to everyone again!

    Edit:
    Ok, the head is kinda narrow. which I WILL fix......anything else I did wrong guys?
    If there's a secret to producing good creative work, whether it be art, music, writing, acting, or whatever, I think it's the ability to study what you produce and know that it sucks. It always will, in some aspect. Then you do it again and again and again until you do something that sucks less.
    The only people who make no progress are the people who think their stuff is great, even when it isn't. People who think they're good enough never improve. I'm sure you know people like this.
    That means your ego will always be taking a beating, and you will always dislike what you do to some extent, because no matter how good you get, there will always be somebody who can do something better than you can.
    You're humble and critical of your work. Therefore I predict you will go far.

    I see you stressing over your two figures and wanting to go back and fix them and try to make them perfect. I say don't. Instead, draw the same two figures ten more times. Of the ten, there will be one that you like best. Whatever you like best about it, try to duplicate that thing in later sketches. (You know you can, because you did it already.)

    The people who do awesome work here (I am not one of them) were not touched by a magical art angel. Like Edison said, it's 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. Keep doing it, stay critical of yourself, and you will improve.

    Now, give me those ten sketches.

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    Haha, Longxiang, you're a slave driver, but I'll do it :p. With this post though, it will be my last drawing update for the week, because, as I said, I got no scanner. Got to wait till work again before I can scan. Soooooo, I'll have your ten figures, but I'll put something extra in them, just to compensate for the weekend (hopefully I can do it, but it's supposed to be a challenge hehe)

    Thanks though for your really encouraging words. I've realised that I don't have time anymore for my ego to be tripping me up, so I'm trying to be more honest and open with myself haha.

    Anyway, here's the finished version of the block shapes. There is definitely more bulk to the fellow now. Gonna work more on that, probably some more perspective studies. One thing I really need to remind myself is not to get too carried away with the bulk and forget my proportions, because I found myself penciling in a LOT of unacceptable distortions lol. I only hope that it's more acceptable now....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longxiang
    If there's a secret to producing good creative work, whether it be art, music, writing, acting, or whatever, I think it's the ability to study what you produce and know that it sucks. It always will, in some aspect. Then you do it again and again and again until you do something that sucks less.
    The only people who make no progress are the people who think their stuff is great, even when it isn't. People who think they're good enough never improve. I'm sure you know people like this.
    That means your ego will always be taking a beating, and you will always dislike what you do to some extent, because no matter how good you get, there will always be somebody who can do something better than you can.
    You're humble and critical of your work. Therefore I predict you will go far.

    I see you stressing over your two figures and wanting to go back and fix them and try to make them perfect. I say don't. Instead, draw the same two figures ten more times. Of the ten, there will be one that you like best. Whatever you like best about it, try to duplicate that thing in later sketches. (You know you can, because you did it already.)

    The people who do awesome work here (I am not one of them) were not touched by a magical art angel. Like Edison said, it's 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. Keep doing it, stay critical of yourself, and you will improve.

    Now, give me those ten sketches.


    Said it in a nutshell


    and lemme say that last drawing u done was brilliant example of what i suggested, evn tho the poses are basic they're oozing with quality and look very solid.

    glad to see u using your perspective studies on the human anatomical studies, it's really going to help u,

    (Just like those 10 sketches he he)

    Why do u stick your nose in other families business'. Come on dude don't u have any HOBBIES?

    My sketchbook beckons, ave a look see?
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...09#post1212209
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  17. #16
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    looks good !

    try diffrent gestures ! and also learn single cubes and other gemetrie - learn the piece then build you figure or so when u can draw good cubes u can make good figures out of them
    the lines u need to draw the cubes and the lines u need for the figures follow the same basic rules of drawing

    u can check single images of my sketchbook here ->
    http://www.fragtasia.de/bob/2dstuff/_sketchbook/?M=D

    mysecret : understanding ( each line follows same rules no matter what we draw - know the rules - control the lines - controle the result .. i like that xD )

    post more !

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    Guys, you don't know how much your encouragements mean to me. Thanks really. I'm working on that 10 sketches, and it's been a real learning experience for me. When I put them up on Monday, I'd probably make a list of lessons learnt as well haha.

    sideshowbob, the volume of your output is simply amazing. I'm looking at your stuff in your directory now man. I think I will make a point of doing studies of particular body parts as well, like you did.

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    I am so wasted lol, but here are the 10 sketches! I had fun doing these. It's supposed to be 10 sketches of a jump. It's like, keyframing in animation, although obviously I suck at choosing the keyframes lol. I put up a stick figure drawing thing as well so you guys can see the motion as a whole.

    Anyway, for some self criticism. After this little excercise, what really really hit home to me is that I still lack the right knowledge of the anatomy to properly express how the muscles should fold and bunch over each other. Not only that, but I really got to work on the skeletons again lol, because some of the twists and turns I put my manikin's limbs through would have dislocated my own limbs hahahahaha.

    Another area I struggled with is again perspective. I really don't understand how someone could have sat and told me with a straight face perspective is not important? But lol, I will find the time to play with cubes as sideshowbob has done.

    Other problems include my choosing of poses. A lot of the 10 sketches look awfully stiff, and some of the poses, like 06 is just stupidly odd :/ Need to find a way to express more grace in my poses. Any suggestions on how I should do this would be greatly appreciated.

    And of course, I will so fail if this is an animation class BECAUSE MY 10 MANIKINS LOOK NOTHING LIKE EACH OTHER. lol, I suck.

    There's probably tonnes of other stuff I missed, so like, I beg you guys to go through my stuff with a fine comb and just hit me with your harshest crits! Would really appreciate them too!

    (Just look through the stick man pic to get a idea of the motion as a whole)

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  20. #19
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    Hey man, i think thats a very good awesome try, and it scares me to think that you tried to get right so many things at the same time, perspective, proportions, anatomy, gesture, nice lines, animation, yikes!, its too much!, just try to go the the basics, and take baby steps, when you try to do something beyond your abilities it shows
    Kepp it up maaaan!! you made nice lines, nice anatomy, keep on going!.

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    Thanks for hopping over Christian! Maybe I AM swallowing a little too much for myself at that haha. It's just supposed to be a little challenge for myself and a break away from all the basic poses I've been doing. Needed to do something else to keep the interest going lol. Anyway, it's back to basic poses for me haha, until I can think of another challenge lol.

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  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by CouchPotato
    I am so wasted lol, but here are the 10 sketches! I had fun doing these. It's supposed to be 10 sketches of a jump. It's like, keyframing in animation, although obviously I suck at choosing the keyframes lol. I put up a stick figure drawing thing as well so you guys can see the motion as a whole.

    Anyway, for some self criticism. After this little excercise, what really really hit home to me is that I still lack the right knowledge of the anatomy to properly express how the muscles should fold and bunch over each other. Not only that, but I really got to work on the skeletons again lol, because some of the twists and turns I put my manikin's limbs through would have dislocated my own limbs hahahahaha.

    Another area I struggled with is again perspective. I really don't understand how someone could have sat and told me with a straight face perspective is not important? But lol, I will find the time to play with cubes as sideshowbob has done.

    Other problems include my choosing of poses. A lot of the 10 sketches look awfully stiff, and some of the poses, like 06 is just stupidly odd :/ Need to find a way to express more grace in my poses. Any suggestions on how I should do this would be greatly appreciated.

    And of course, I will so fail if this is an animation class BECAUSE MY 10 MANIKINS LOOK NOTHING LIKE EACH OTHER. lol, I suck.

    There's probably tonnes of other stuff I missed, so like, I beg you guys to go through my stuff with a fine comb and just hit me with your harshest crits! Would really appreciate them too!

    (Just look through the stick man pic to get a idea of the motion as a whole)
    You sir, do not suck. They're only rough models so far, and for models they're very decent. (Though I do NOT want to know what figure #9 is doing there.)

    Whether you should focus more on anatomy really depends what kind of artist you want to be. I think your proportions, perspective and muscle groups are good. All those models lack is to be cleaned up, detailed, and nicely rendered.

    As your self-appointed taskmaster, I am now commanding you to go over those figures again in pen (or better yet in photoshop or a paint program) and clean them up, make them look nice. Maybe even put clothes on them. Maybe not faces and hair just yet, or rendering, but we need to turn those rough sketches into smooth clean drawings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longxiang
    (Though I do NOT want to know what figure #9 is doing there.)
    Why, he's playing with...something of course :p

    Thanks man, your words mean a lot to me. Probably next time I can be critical of myself while leaving all the emo-stuff out huh?

    I'm not quite sure what you mean when you want me to take it into Photoshop, because I've seriously never thought so far ahead yet lol. I'll just go by feel (as I've been doing for most of the 10 sketches lol) and clean out all the rubber marks and ink in the outlines. Dunno how far I'll go, since I've never done that, but everyone's gotta start from somewhere haha.

    But before I do that, I've got stuff to update!

    First is manikins in freefall! But it didn't go off as well as I hoped; there was supposed to be lots more but that angle is so hard to grasp that I went all emo and threw my pencils across the room and stomped around.



    Ok, I didn't throw my pencils around or stomp lol, but I did go emo and just drew some cubes completely from feel and without all the stupid horizon lines or vanishing point lines and stuff, and by the next day turned those cubes into the second pic you see. Which in my humble opinion seems a heck of a lot better than the freefall manikins. Whaaaaaiiiiiiiiiii??????? Aren't the horizon and vanishing point stuff supposed to help me draw easier?

    Edit:
    Looking at it again, my 2nd pic still suffers from perspective problems. The lower right guy manikin should be a TAD larger.

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  24. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CouchPotato
    Why, he's playing with...something of course :p
    Yeah, it looks like he's adjusting his package. That's the first thing I'd do after a nice long jump too, actually.


    I'm not quite sure what you mean when you want me to take it into Photoshop, because I've seriously never thought so far ahead yet lol. I'll just go by feel (as I've been doing for most of the 10 sketches lol) and clean out all the rubber marks and ink in the outlines. Dunno how far I'll go, since I've never done that, but everyone's gotta start from somewhere haha.
    Photoshop is where I and many others do all their rendering. Scan your drawings in, like you've done, load them into photoshop, add a transparent layer on top of that, set the layer to multiply, and ink/paint on that. OpenCanvas and Painter are just as good, depends what you like.

    That of course assumes you have a Wacom tablet. Drawing on the computer is pretty rough with a mouse, though not impossible.

    Otherwise yeah, just ink the drawings and erase the pencil lines from underneath (after the ink dries! I cannot stress this enough! heh.)

    But before I do that, I've got stuff to update!

    First is manikins in freefall! But it didn't go off as well as I hoped; there was supposed to be lots more but that angle is so hard to grasp that I went all emo and threw my pencils across the room and stomped around.
    Upload a video of the throwing and stomping please.

    Ok, I didn't throw my pencils around or stomp lol, but I did go emo and just drew some cubes completely from feel and without all the stupid horizon lines or vanishing point lines and stuff, and by the next day turned those cubes into the second pic you see. Which in my humble opinion seems a heck of a lot better than the freefall manikins. Whaaaaaiiiiiiiiiii??????? Aren't the horizon and vanishing point stuff supposed to help me draw easier?
    Eh... for figures I'm not so sure. Cityscapes and things that are supposed to be very even and regular require perspective lines, but in my opinion figures are better off without. For figures the most important thing is the gesture (again, my opinion here) That is, does the figure look like its doing the action you mean it to be doing. That means the figure will have a sort of flow to it, from toes to fingers. Draw that first, then draw the figure around it, trying your best to keep realistic-ish proportions. Art is about expressing the idea of something, after all, not necessarily recording exactly what something looks like, as if you were taking a picture. (If you want to do that, it's better to use a camera.)

    Of course that's just my opinion. Some people lay graph paper over photographs and draw/paint them one square at a time to duplicate them perfectly. I think that's ridiculous, but it really comes down to what you want to accomplish.

    By the way, those freefalling figures look creepy, all M.C. Escher-like. Not bad at all.

    Last edited by Longxiang; March 6th, 2007 at 08:07 PM.
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  25. #24
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    So I tried to take the thing into PS and see what I could do with it. I don't think it turned out all that good haha. I think I need to work on getting used to drawing on the tablet. Don't quite like it atm lol...not enough....friction? ^^;;;

    Anyway, so I was like, using the polygonal lasso tool to cut an outline over my figures, and then paint bucketing the lines, which I gueeeesssss isn't the right way to do so huh? Nvm, will try again later.

    I think Longxiang, you're probably right about not sticking too strictly to the science part of perspective when it comes to drawing figures. I seem to get better results when I just go ahead without worrying too much about it. I just don't want to, like, take a short cut that turns out not to be a short cut, you know what I mean? haha.

    And next would be, male manikins in freefall! I think this one turned out slightly better, although the manikin in the middle is hideous. Like a cardboard cutout, but no matter, that was the first one. The rest got better. Marginally.

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  26. #25
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    That cleaned up one looks very not bad. Muscles are squarish, but that's because it's a mannequin and not a person. I wonder what would happen if you turned Pinnochio there into a real boy.

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    Very nice, Couch Potato.
    I see, you try hard to achieve results.
    Dont worry about the perspective in figure drawings, its not that important.
    I think your biggest problem at the moment is the stiffness. Try to use more flowing lines, curved shapes, dynamic poses. Then try shading your figures to describe form more properly.

    Waiting for new sketches

    Troll

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  28. #27
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    hey couch! great studies here.

    I'm just starting out too so I don't really know what kind of advice to give,
    so i'm just here for morale support lol.

    I know how frustrating it can get sometimes;p
    I broke a pencil one time too-_-;... lucky I had spares=/...

    Good luck! Work hard, and see you at the finishing line (if there's one that is@@)!

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    Hey guys, thanks for your comments!

    Longxiang:
    He would be a boy wth a very long nose of course!

    Troll:
    Hey man, thanks a lot for keeping tabs on my stuff. You were the first to reply to me! Thanks very much. I too think my figures are very stiff. Need to figure out what's not right and work on it. As for shading....believe me man, I want to lol, but the guy teaching me art doesn't allow me to yet. Says I need to take it step by step and I'm not yet at the stage where I should do shading. Something about getting my external shapes right first, then telling the difference between dark areas, light areas, before adding color values lol.

    Arimus:
    Your morale support means a lot to me man, as is everyone elses', especially Longxiang's so far. Was really feeling down not long ago, but after the kind words of everyone here at CA, you know, there's a lighter outlook on the challenges ahead. Doesn't seem so daunting anymore.


    Anyway, I've got updates. So even though Longxiang's kind enough to say that my PS touchup isn't bad, but I think that's only because we're seeing it here at 800x590 resolution. If we zoom all the way in, we'll be able to see lots of imperfection. Any of you guys got any tips on inking in PS? lol, I'm finding it really hard to do precision strokes with the tablet.

    I thought maybe I can define the outline instead, by painting it in someway lol. I think I got a very generic gist of a working method, but needs working more. I probably also need to know how to paint irl >_>. I've got like a sample pic of what I mean lol. I think I'm going to have a lot of trouble here. Got color vision deficiency, haha. Can't really tell all the earth colors apart properly.

    Also did another manikin drawing! Saw a nice pose when watching 300 yesterday, so kept it in my mind and drew it out later. I think I'm gonna get that DVD, not because it's a nice show. I think there's too much CG and too much dramatisation, but they got lots of almost naked men with beautiful muscles!!!

    I think I'm heading towards a very baaaaaaad place.....I need a DVD with beautiful naked women to balance this out somehow.

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  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by CouchPotato

    Anyway, I've got updates. So even though Longxiang's kind enough to say that my PS touchup isn't bad, but I think that's only because we're seeing it here at 800x590 resolution. If we zoom all the way in, we'll be able to see lots of imperfection. Any of you guys got any tips on inking in PS?
    Zooming way out works for me. My last one I drew 2400x4800, then reduced it down to 600x1200 for posting. Most real paintings look like crap up close.

    Advice on inking? Hmm. Zoom in, draw long strokes. Use variable-width lines. Make the interior lines thin and the exterior ones thicker. Rotate your canvas to a comfortable angle (photoshop can only rotate 90 degrees, but Painter and OpenCanvas you can rotate freely to any angle.) Go slow, use control-Z a lot. Redo the same line over and over until you draw one you like.

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  31. #30
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    Well Couch Potato, if he says, that you shouldn`t, then you probably should not ..(come on, its a teacher, right? ). BTW, i did not mean anatomically correct shading, but simple form shading. YOu know, like an arm is a cylinder , etc .You should imagine the things you draw as 3 dimensional forms, otherwise it will always look flat and "not right". I dont know, where you live, but probably the next best library has the Anatomy book by Burn Hogarth. His style seems a bit cartoonish at first, but its best for learning anathomy, because it exaggerates the essential characteristics of the human body. He also introduces some guidelines on constructing figures. BTW there is very much said about the stiffness and how to avoid it. If you can get this book, you should do so.

    And now draw more, I am watching you

    The Evil Gasmasksandweaponsloving Troll

    EDIT: Better forget about colouring right now, just draw with your pencils and try to get the forms right, and learn shading and then anathomy

    Last edited by Troll Skelking; March 8th, 2007 at 11:31 AM.
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