Art: Will it just 'click'?

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  1. #1
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    Will it just 'click'?

    Alright, I'm sure this is the one question everyone asks at some point but i'm hoping it will help me...

    HOW? DO? YOU? DO? IT?

    I've asked this other places and I mostly just get things like, you have to practice, or read tutorials, but I'm not finding anything that helps. I can't come up with any good ideas, I don't know how I should start even when I do get a good idea, and when I try and paint it, it's a disaster.

    Does anyone know of any VIDEO tutorials? Of it showing the painting as it's happening? I can't find anything like this. And how did you guys get good? Did it just click and you found and awesome technique? Did you just practice until you found out how?

    =(

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by drd
    Alright, I'm sure this is the one question everyone asks at some point but i'm hoping it will help me...

    HOW? DO? YOU? DO? IT?

    I've asked this other places and I mostly just get things like, you have to practice, or read tutorials, but I'm not finding anything that helps. I can't come up with any good ideas, I don't know how I should start even when I do get a good idea, and when I try and paint it, it's a disaster.
    Hey, just relax about it. Art isn't like an On/Off switch. There won't be one day where you suddenly become a fantastically great artist. It is a slow progression that happens over many years, if you work really hard everyday then maybe you can shave a few years off. But really, it's a process.

    Besides, I notice you're still pretty young, so don't worry, you've got the time. If you keep at it non stop, then by the time you're eighteen I'm sure you'll have something to show for it.

    I also just checked out your sketchbook, not bad at all, especially at fifteen. I know I sure as hell couldn't draw like that at fifteen! Not that I'm a master artist myself, but I'm sure other more talented (where talent = years of sweat and experience) artists will echo the same sentiment.

    Quote Originally Posted by drd
    Does anyone know of any VIDEO tutorials?
    Well, one series I like is by Bobby Chiu. Not only does it show his process, but also he talks about his life experiences. Actually, I don't even watch what he's doing most of the time, I only load up the videos to listen to him talk.

    Edit: Oh, and I forgot to mention, there's an anatomy centered blog called "The Structure of Man" with something like a couple hundred video tutorials. I haven't looked much into it myself, but you may find it interesting.

    Last edited by Anid Maro; February 26th, 2007 at 02:55 PM.
    -My work can be found at my local directory thread.
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  4. #3
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    What exactly are you trying to do? It’s likely that you are biting off more than you can chew all at once. Isolate specific things that you need improvement on, and focus on improving those things one at a time. Hang in there.

    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.
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  5. #4
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    I need knowledge of processes.

    Thanks for those links, I'd heard of Chiu before but I didn't know who he was...That's what I need, like processes. I start a drawing, but kind of lock up, I don't really know what to do next...

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    I think most artists do have those moments when they're drawing/painting and 'click' as they've just discovered a new technique, or something right for the first time, etc.

    Most of the time however, it will be a slow process which you will not notice.

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    1st = Give yourself permission to suck, you are going to suck regardless of wether you want to or not... it's only by many many failures that you will arrive at any success.

    2nd = Practice drawing anything and everything every waking second -- drawing is the foundation of good painting... it takes a good 1000 hours of concentrated drawing practice just to get a handle on conture line of the human figure.

    3rd = When (after much drawing) you arrive at a drawing worth taking to paint, DONT! -- instead begin practicing value(B&W) studies of anything and everything every waking hour... value represents 90% of color vision so if you have good value you will be at least 90% right.

    4th = When you have good value (after much practice) study color theory.

    5th = Now combine drawing, value, and color to create a painting -- technique will arrive somewhere along the path to this point... you won't have to seek it out it is a natural byproduct of practice of the fundamentals.

    Best,
    Jason.

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    RebeccaK has some awesome list of things to do when you don't know what to do:
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...5&postcount=32
    Cheers!

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  9. #8
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    personally have a similar problem with ideation, my imagination will run wild with so many possibilities that trying to rein them all in becomes extremely frustrating at times as you pressure yourself to create. Remember, your art is a means to find absolute freedom and this strong desire can often thwart your focus on something as you become more concentrated on a finished project than developin your basic concepts which require your immediate attention

    Sometimes a change of environment can help (I don't enjoy trying to come up with stuff at work, but prefer to start projects at home, where i'm more comfy, or just sitting under a tree somewhere outside) Don't let your daily routines become stifling. Another thing that helps me, if there's something i want to draw, i'll warm up by drawing something completely unrelated to get loose, usually something funny that i don't have to be entirely too critical about and relieve some of the pressure to immediately crank out something that looks totally awesome. It also helps me to jot down ideas as they come to me so i don't forget them.

    Also, try to get together and collaborate with other artists. Having dialogue with them towards a common goal can stimulate your mind and help develope ideas that you wouldn't have. these don't neccicarily have to be visual artists either, maybe find someone who likes to write and use your interpretation of what they write to formulate more concrete ideas rather than trying to pick out exactly what your looking for among the myriad ideas that go through your head, which can be a very daunting task. Don't keep all that's in your head to yourself if your mildly embarrased or just not satisfied with your percieved quality of work. this is

    If your looking for a good video i would definately suggest picking up Marko Djurdjevic's Character Ideation DVD. You're shown four different characters that make up a post-apocolyptic gang. In it, he talks about how he comes to some of his ideas, gives some insight into his personal theory about art and his attitude towards his progression. But best of all you get to watch each character drawn almost to completion without too many cuts and not so sped up as to not be able to appreciate what he's actually deciding about each one as he fleshes them out. and watching him as he works really helped me to keep in mind how neccesary it is to work your projects evenly so everything comes together at once. Hmmmm... oh yeah, good music on it too.

    I hope this has been of some service as it sucks to see someone suffer through a problem i seem to encounter all too often.

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    The answer is yes, it will just click. At some point during those mighty hours of practice you should be racking up, something will just click.

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Quote Originally Posted by jason_maranto
1st = Give yourself permission to suck, you are going to suck regardless of wether you want to or not... it's only by many many failures that you will arrive at any success.

2nd = Practice drawing anything and everything every waking second -- drawing is the foundation of good painting... it takes a good 1000 hours of concentrated drawing practice just to get a handle on conture line of the human figure.

3rd = When (after much drawing) you arrive at a drawing worth taking to paint, DONT! -- instead begin practicing value(B&W) studies of anything and everything every waking hour... value represents 90% of color vision so if you have good value you will be at least 90% right.

4th = When you have good value (after much practice) study color theory.

5th = Now combine drawing, value, and color to create a painting -- technique will arrive somewhere along the path to this point... you won't have to seek it out it is a natural byproduct of practice of the fundamentals.

Best,
Jason.

First you tell its ok to make mistakes.. it is.
Then you say that you should draw wherever you are, and whenever you are. thats right.

In the 3rd point.. you say its not ok to make mistakes. It is.

The 4th point is good. But it shouldn't affect once practice.

5th point is same as 4.. its good, its right, but no... it will come down as you practice it. If you want to be a robot. thats fine i guess.

DRD: Do you have fun drawing ? Do you want to get better ? Do you have a goal?

Having fun drawing is the most important thing. You won't progress as much if you don't have fun doing what you are doing. When your doing studies you are allowed to experiment and practicing, While you studying something, you should still have fun! I think this is where the goals come in. If you have a goal, you can think of that while doing the studies. If you have nothing to work forward to, it must be shit thinking of the 999999 figures you have in front of you when you've just finished the first one. If you have a goal, you hopefully realize how good this is = fun. Cause then you'll be able to put these figures into your work. No goal = what the fuck should i do with these ? Goal = Great, now I can make a whole army of cool guys with kick ass weapons !

If you seriously want to get better.. if you are having fun, and if you have a goal, you WILL improve. If you know that the studies you are doing will get you somewhere , you WILL improve, if you know that everytime you sit down to draw, you work towards a goal, you WILL improve!

most times when it have "clicked" for me, its been while im been struggling/working for hours and hours and hours.. not when i put down a 10 minute figure. To be able to put down hours and hours into drawing.. You have to think that drawing is really fun! It is the most important thing!
I'm not sure why you did this thread... is it because you don't have fun ?
you saying you have a hard time starting to draw. Its called an "artistic block"
thats something you can cure with a goal! but you have to belive in that goal.
If you can just sit down and focus on your goal.. Im sure you can grab your pencil and start working right away. If not, do some master study.. After you've finished it, or worked on it for a while, you've hopefully forget your block. And then you can get down your ideas no matter what! As mentioned, you must allow your self to fail. You will fail a few thousand times, its necessary! Otherwise you wont know whats right. Its better to fail now then failing later.

Well, I don't have much more to say. I hope it "clicks" for you also.. and don't expect yourself to be great over a night. that won't happen! You have to practice. The people who told you to keep practicing was smart people, you should listen to them! but remember to have fun

Edit* KLEVR's advice about changing enviroment sometimes is really really good.. i've seen some peoples studios, and I could In no way work in there.. it should
feels fresh to you!

~Dile

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  • #11
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    No Offense Mr. Dile, but you could use a more structured and linear approach to learning as well -- you are a great example of what happens when you learn in an unfocussed way... there are weaknesses in your drawings which make thier way into your paintings and make any uderstanding of value skewed.

    I too learned in an unfocussed way, and have spent years trying to undo the damage done to myself... The method I outlined is the Old master approach to training an apprentice -- you were not allowed to proceed to the next step untill you had mastered the previous. This very often meant it would be YEARS before being allowed to actually paint, but it also meant you didn't waste time chasing your own tail.

    The fastest way between point A and B is a straight line...

    Best,
    Jason.

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  • #12
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    Dile, Jason, if I may interrupt the two of you –

    You are both right. Having a step-by-step way to methodically work towards a goal is necessary. And having fun is also necessary. This applies to any field, and these things can’t be mutually exclusive. The most effective methodical approaches make “fun” a part of the process, because structure without fun is likely to sap your will to go on, and fun without structure results in going around in unhelpful little circles of self-gratification. I suspect in your own practice, each of you has made good use of both structure and fun.

    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.
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  • #13
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    Absolutely!

    Best,
    Jason.

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    It is possible to achieve the click. I have developed and am soon to patent a process for achieving the click.

    I am calling it the Satori Method(TM) of making art.

    First, one must become familiar with tools and materials. Since the Satori Method(TM) requires absolute committment and involvement with the process, all tools and materials must be made only from your own naturally-occuring body parts and functions.

    Brushes can be made only from your own hair. Each hair must be individually selected for perfection of length, diameter, and flexion. Color is immaterial. Choose no more than one hair per lunar cycle, otherwise you may rush to judgement.

    Brush handles are best made from fingernails, which are a renewable body resource. Some have advocated the use of certain long bones, but this is an over-indulgence in involvement. Simply let the fingernails of one hand grow for few decades and then trim carefully. Choose that which best provides both the necessary stiffness and resilience, two characteristics that are always to be kept in proper balance.

    The Satori Method(TM) employs only one color, and that is black. All other colors are an indulgence, a distraction from the absolute end of achieving the click. A very good black pigment can be made by burning your own bones to charcoal, but that risks over-involvement (see "brush handles," above), which is a distracting indulgence. An acceptable alternative is collecting carbon black produced by candles made from your own body fat.

    Binders for your black pigment can be made from a number of protein-rich bodily excrescences, however none is as prevalent in the body as mucus. Collect only one type of mucus, however, to prevent protein-chain clotting. This resource cannot be stored, and must be collected and used only when needed.

    A ground for your art must be made. Some extremists have prepared parchments made from their own skin but this is another case of indulging in over-involvement. A quite suitable felt-like paper can be fabricated from naturally exfoliated epidermal cells. Dandruff is known to yield a particularly brilliant white paper. Be sure to sort out all grit and other contaminants.

    Preparation of materials and tools is of course only a miniscule, mundane part of the Satori Method(TM). To truly achieve the click, one must also attune oneself completely to all harmonies of the universe. Only when absolute attunement is achieved can one be assured of achieving the true click; false clicks are a dime a dozen!

    Absolute attunement is best pursued in the absence of all earthly distractions. All time not spent creating your materials must be spent in pursuing absolute attunement. Removal to a remote location is recommended; the lower Himalayas are known to feature excellent regions suitable for this pursuit, and the rent is reasonable.

    At some point as you grow more attuned to the universe and have fabricated all your necessary materials, you will be tempted to collect some mucus and attempt to make a picture and achieve the click. DO NOT BE MISLED BY THIS TEMPTATION! This need to create art is another indulgence, perhaps the most insidious of all! The true click is only achieved when one is without desire, without ambition, without self. Wait for it!

    At last, eventually, the moment has arrived. All the universal harmonies sing through your consciousness. In the palm of your left hand you grind your body-fat black with a great gooey glob of snot, all the while having awareness only of the cosmic oneness, the potentiality of click. Your right hand grasps the fingernail-and-hair brush, then uses it to caress your puddle of self-made paint. With utter abandonment to the moment you stretch the brush out to the dandruff sheet. Become the brush, become the paint, become the paper! You make a stroke.

    Satori!

    CLICK!




    no click?

    too bad. better luck next lifetime.

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  • #15
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    lol, masque!

    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.
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    heheh.... listen to the masters (originally I mistyped Hamsters..that might work too)

    chaos

    To see the world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wildflower, hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.

    Sketch book

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...ight=chaos%27s
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    If that’s me you’re talking about, it’s definitely “hamster”. :-P

    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.
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  • hey man, haha i just wanted to point out that making mistakes is ok no matter what stage you studying i don't doubt that your way won't work.. Its just not in my preferences i never said you were wrong.. but uhm
    this though was rather unnecessary .. "you are a great example of what happens when you learn in an unfocussed way..."
    jason.. unlike you i have only been drawing for about one year, the stuff you where talking about comes down with practice.. i think you'd be rather surprised if i actually nailed that, what you mentioned, already.
    however. thanks for the "critique hints" .. i appreciate that

    ~Dile

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    "First you tell its ok to make mistakes.. it is."

    What was the name of that weird little dude from the second star wars movie again? Second language and all, I understand, but WTF?

    Seriously. As far as "click," I didn't even start doing art until I was over 40. I had had a near death experience at 30 in which I knew I had been spared for something, but I put in another 10 years before I figured out what it was. Now I'm trying to do what I can before death overtakes me. Patience grasshopper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drd
    I can't come up with any good ideas, I don't know how I should start even when I do get a good idea, and when I try and paint it, it's a disaster.

    =(
    Click eh?
    Hmmm...
    I never thought of this click before...Is that normal?
    I just do whatever I like (while following anatomy guidelines and other art stuff like balance & harmony). And practice. Until I get techniques/styles that I like.
    Can't come up with a good idea...
    Well, this just happen to me a few days back...

    I was trying to come up for a story for a 8 page comic for a local competition...I had an idea...
    but my sisters (comic readers themselves) said the idea was very depressing (reality comic) and something about teenagers don't care anything at all...

    Back to square one...
    2 er...3 weeks fly soon and I still had no idea.
    I keep asking my younger sister "WHAT SHOULD I DO?!" countless times...
    One night or morelike morning...desperately trying to sleep...but couldn't.
    I check my memories about what I did or talk about before...when one of the topics switch a light bulb on me.
    'That it! I should write about ********** !' Its brilliant!

    Moral of the story:
    When you can't come up with something,
    Check your memories.
    Of couse there is always research...(but it didn't do me good this time)

    Oh and er for the "I don't know how I should start even when I do get a good idea" Maybe you should try to experiment before the real thing. And even if you do a mistake, its part of learning and not a waste.
    And about mistakes...mistakes can be part of beauty IF you can twist it.
    So mistakes aren't all bad.

    OK, I'll stop rambling now.

    In this world set by God,
    Imagination is our magic...

    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...99#post1542899

    My Sketchbook above. (Way too long ago... been a busy college student)
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  • #21
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    Alright, the gigantic waste of my life, masque, could have gone without. Thanks anyways.

    I don't mean by 'click' I'm an awesome artist. I mean 'click' Oh, this is how you paint correctly, 'click' Oh, Photoshop painting is a helluvalot easier and produces good results when I do this procedure.

    See what I'm getting at?

    It doesn't matter that I don't have knowledge of Value, or anatomy, or anything like that. It's just that even if I knew all of that, I don't know the steps to go through with it.

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    okay, either you recognized the satire early and read through it anyway (hopefully a with smile or two along thw way), or you took it seriously, in which case, lighten up, dude! regardless of which, it was your choice to read it, i sure as hell wasn't twistin' yer arm. if you think it was a waste, don't blame me.

    the point is, the CLICK is an absurdity, a holy grailish goal that will never exist, because doing art is a learning experience from start to finish, there's never and end to it, so Q.E.D., there is no grail, there is no CLICK, and there is no spoon, either, btw. possibly a lot of small-scale goals along the way, like learning to use a tool, or about color theory, or about composition, but none of these is a CLICK, more just an everyday "Aha!"

    sometimes it can all come together very smoothly and you can get in the groove and make art as painlessly as a stroll down a summer lane, but that's not a CLICK either, it's just the reward for lots of practice and filled-up sketchbook pages, and maybe a little karma, luck, or serendipity, take your pickity .

    and no amount of tutorials will gain you a CLICK. they might make the stumbling a bit less painful, which is good, but it's still an endless journey, at no time during which you can sit back and know for sure "I have arrived!"

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  • #23
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    No, I didn't read it all the way, about the first paragraph when I realized how absurd it was, I just skimmed through the rest seeing as that was the entire post and maybe you had some serious info in there. =/

    Plus it sounded a bit mocking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drd
    Plus it sounded a bit mocking.
    yup, but not of you in particular, but rather the idea that ability with art will suddenly descend on you like the fire of the holy spirit or sumpthin'. 'twon't. 'twill emerge slowly, and only after payin' your dues. the Muse is no to be paid off for a one-night stand, but instead a lifelong lover who needs to be courted every day of your life.

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  • #25
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    Wow you love metaphors don't you?

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    drd-

    Sounds like you are still frustrated.

    I agree with what has been said before...

    Art happens more slowly than you or I expect. It happens in weird slow fits and mostly you only realize how far you've come by looking back. You think it hasn't clicked, but actually a *lot* has already clicked. Maybe now is a good time to look some old drawings of yours to get some perspective. I'm quite certain you haven't gotten worse.

    Pick a concrete next step and focus on that. If you'd like to paint better, "Paint well" is too big to really achieve. Break it down into steps. If you're not sure what a good next step is, look at the last 3 pieces you've done and decide what one thing is that you missed in those that you *know* you can nail. Do that on your next piece. Repeat the process. Try to ignore any ideas about where you think you should be by any standard.

    All we can really do is put one foot in front of the other. The art that you and I see and are impressed with is the result of *years* or *decades* of that slow process. We often see a piece that blows us away and forget about the years of hard work that led up to it. It's frustrating to think about all those years we "have to" put in, but at the same time it's great because we're part of the same process, and it's actually very simple: take the next step. Sometimes it's clear what it is and what direction it should be in; sometimes you just have to blindly take a small step in any direction. But really you just have to do that one thing over and over. As long as you are paying attention you will get somewhere. And when you're there, you'll see new places to go to.

    What all this boils down to is to be concrete, realistic, & specific about where you are, where you are going, and where you can go. Post your work on CA.org. Ask for specific help. Participate in threads you think will help you (there are many!). Start new threads for areas you don't find an existing thread about- there are always others in the same boat.

    Here's a great quote that always puts things in perspective for me when I'm feeling frustrated:
    Quote Originally Posted by Hokusai
    "From the age of six I had a mania for drawing the shapes of things. When I was fifty I had published a universe of designs. But all I have done before the age of seventy is not worth bothering with. At seventy-five I have learned something of the pattern of nature, of animals, of plants, of trees, birds, fish and insects. When I am 80 you will see real progress. At ninety I shall have cut my way deeply into the mystery of life itself. At a hundred I shall be a marvelous artist. At a hundred and ten everything I create, a dot, a line, will jump to life as never before. To all of you who are going to live as long as I do, I promise to keep my word. I am writing this in my old age. I used to call myself Hokosai, but today I sign my self `The Old Man Mad About Drawing.'"
    Hope this helps!

    Tim

    p.s. I assure you Masque is trying to help out. He speaks wisdom in a very Hitchhiker's Guide sort of way...

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    Yes, I've read that quote before. He was a great man.

    Nah, i'm not frustrated, even though I still don't really know the best way to make a painting in photoshop; I've got a nice still life going though, in acrylics, that I've finally been able to make decent. Acrylics just don't behave well, but this time I won, heh. Take that, you stupid paint. >=O

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