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  1. #1
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    Can I rant here?

    Sorry if this is against the rules, or if there's a better place for this. My brain has to fart it out though. Move/delete as neccessary (not like anyone needs my permission I suppose...)

    anyways;

    I'm in graphic design. We believe firmly in communication. Communication of idea and art and everything we do. If our idea isn't coming across, it's our problem, and we have to fix it. I also am in a painting class. Last semester I had a goofy little old lady teacher who:

    a) wasn't very good/concerned with art
    b) wasn't concerned with our development

    She just gave us our assignment (copying historical styles when we barely even knew how to paint), said 'oh, I like it' to everything we did and then dissapeared to her office. We had to drag her out to get her to help us/comment on our work. Funny thing was, all the fine arts girls (which were the only other people in my class) loved her because she was sweet and very easy on grading.

    I. Hated. Her.

    Sure she's a nice lady, but she sucked at teaching. She sucked when she taught typography, she sucked when she taught intro to graphic design (cut out a pic and a word from a mag, pass word to person on your left and paste them both on a sheet of paper - no fake) and she sucked when she taught painting. All I ever did was take my work and go home to do it. I had no motivation for creating good art.

    So, she decides to retire all of a sudden, leaving my program coordinator (who will be reffered to as 'Ray') with the task of finding a replacement in a couple of weeks. Ray is the best teacher I ever had. He's concise, to the point, very sharp, knowledgeable, very active in the industry, USES COMMON SENSE, and best of all, never holds back when it comes to critique. He's the guy that let me know it was my problem if my work didn't communicate.

    He hired one of the best art teachers I've ever had. He will be called Sal from far away. This guy knew what he was doing and was apparently and awesome painter. He had a few changes for the class;

    - instead of 10% off a week for a late painting, it was now 5% off a day late.
    - instead of giving us our assignment and leaving, he lectured for a good 2 hours about all sorts of helpful things; subject meaning, painting techniques, the works
    - instead of just smiling and saying 'I like it' he gave critique and tried to tell the girls (especially the abstract one who couldn't paint her way out of 3rd grade) that your work needs to COMMUNICATE instead of being a bunch of random crap that only makes sense to you.
    - instead of forcing us to do things, he only gave suggestions but let us do whatever we wanted when it came down to it.

    That last part got me very inspired. No more drawing impressionistic landscapes or post-expressioonistic portraits when I had no idea how to - I could focus on drawing as realistically as I could to 'try to develop your own personal style' as he put it. Guess what;

    The girls HATED him.

    - They argued that 5% of a day was ludicrous. Their only argument; it wasn't what they did before. He's the teacher for christ sake, he can do what he wants. AND if you hand your stuff in on time, no worries.
    - They argued that he lectured TOO long, and that they had no time to paint. They said that there was no way they could free up any of their time to paint at all during the week. Not a single extra hour. I cooked my painting up with 2 hours out of class time. And it freaking BLEW AWAY what that abstract chick painted, and actually had some thought behind it. No argument for that...
    - They didn't like getting critiqued. their argument; "As long as I understand it, its good" which is fine, I'm not arguing against that, but why the flying [censored] would you go to an art class and not open yourself up to learning?!?!?!

    Lastly, for some reason (and I'm sure you can all guess as to what the real reason was) I was the only one in the class with a good mark. Only one. I was also the only male in my class, so....

    He must be sexist! Yes, there was a huge out of clas fight about him being sexist and a horrible teacher.

    last wedensday just after clas started, my dean entered the class and told us class was cancelled this week, Sal quit. He didn't feel comfortable teaching the class anymore. Thanks girls, thanks a lot. Thanks for whining and thinking your entitled to more than you are, thanks for jumping to conclusions, thanks a whole [censored] bunch. Just when we got a guy who knew what he was doing....

    So hopefuly after my reading week I'll have another painting teacher, hopefully he/she's at least half as good as Sal was.

    Sorry for the long rant, but this was bottled up in my mind since wednesday, it had to come out somewhere....


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  3. #2
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    Your class sucks... Very definitively (as you made it sound to be)... You should've told this to the dean as well...


    Don't you have a different teacher for painting, typography, communication, etc?.... My typography teacher was passionate about typography, and it was reflected to the class...
    LONG LIVE YOKO KANNO!!!

  4. #3
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    I hate students. Really, the best art teacher I ever had was sent back to teaching middle school because the kids in my 9th grade class didn't like the way he taught us. So then they put up someone even worse...

  5. #4
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    The top three posts right now were started by Rhineville, Rhynome and Rhythmus. It took me a minute to realise it wasn't one person starting a bunch of new threads.

    I just thought I'd point that out.



    0kelvin
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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by seba_boi
    Your class sucks... Very definitively (as you made it sound to be)... You should've told this to the dean as well...
    Their pretention (is that even a word?) far outweighs their talent. I can tell you right now that I suck at traditional painting, just started in september, and I somehow painted cirles around them. Which would be fine, I don't expect them to be great or anything, but I expected them to excercise a little common sense. Asking too much it seems...

    And yeah, in hindsight I should have done something.

    Don't you have a different teacher for painting, typography, communication, etc?.... My typography teacher was passionate about typography, and it was reflected to the class...
    I do, but there's some overlap.

    EDIT: 0kelvin, that was a precicely timed simultaneous strike aimed at freaking you out.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0kelvin
    The top three posts right now were started by Rhineville, Rhynome and Rhythmus. It took me a minute to realise it wasn't one person starting a bunch of new threads.

    I just thought I'd point that out.



    0kelvin
    Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this.

    Rhineville - Sure you can rant here. And judging by your post, you have good reason to rant.

    I had the a similar experience in animation program, so I can sympathize.

    The only things I could suggest are to: wait and see what kind of teacher you get as a replacement and hopefully you luck out and get one that offers you what you want OR contact this Sal guy and ask him to teach you on the side.

    Goodluck.

  8. #7
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    i would talk to your dean if i were you, tell him what you told us. good luck man.
    tensai


    check the Tensai Tokyo Sketch Thread (Sketchbook)

    check the Tensai Cityscapes Thread (Finally Finished)



    Quote Originally Posted by strych9ine
    Fuck backgrounds, who needs em.

  9. #8
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    Rhineville I feel for ya bro. Just know that you will succeed becuase of your good attitude, and that the girls will, be, s**t. Because they just dont have what it takes. You've been a victim of the majority's ignorance, laziness, and apathy. It wont be the last time. You are the wolf and they are the sheep.

  10. #9
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    ..find out where your teacher Sal has gone, and go on that course instead...
    Its a big fat ole pain when your the only one in class making the effort. I'm having a similar problem with my fellow students, who, just dont want to try harder or complain when they are not being taught properly. I here their constant moaning, have given them advice on what to do (I mean, it is YOUR money paying the tutor) and they have left it so damn late for anything to be done. They are 'supposed' to be 2nd years. I only draw with them as I have changed from full time to part time; I feel sometimes I am the teacher, because they turn up late and expect an explanation about the day from me, because they are too scared (or too stupid) to go ask the tutor themselves. And..er..yeah, the majority are girls.
    Best thing to do mate, is use it all FOR YOU. Fuck everyone else. If anything, go complain to your Dean that he should've tried harder to keep Sal instead of letting him go. Make a point that YOU got the better mark, and give a full on 'critique' of why that ole lady was a rubbish teacher...I would...I'm not afraid to tell someone what I think in situations like this. Neither am I gona keep quiet if other students are being slack bitches. On Friday, I had to. A friend of mines being slack for the last few weeks, and it got to the point where I gave up on him and told him exactly what I thought. He knew I was right, got in a stroppy mood with me, then got himself drunk. I am now washing my hands of him. Because if I had half the people looking out for me as he did, I would do my best not to let them down...

    Shit, that was massive brain fart too, guess it bothered me more than I thought...

    Goodluck mate with the rest of the course or whatever you decide to do next!

    Moll x

  11. #10
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    Rhineville - go have a talk with your dean. He needs to hear this stuff from you. And if you're up to it, the next time you pass one of those childish girls in the hallway, give her a piece of your mind, too. seriously, don't hold back. They need a verbal spanking for driving away a good teacher, and they need to grow up, start learning, and quit blaming other people for their failures.

    [edit] Oh, and you can tell them that you were given permission to chew them out by a woman. ;-)

    [edit again] Oh, and track down Sal! Let him know what you thought of him, and that you think the situation is absurd. Your words will bolster his confidence, and next time he won't be so quick to retreat.
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.

  12. #11
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    I've also had really rotten luck with shithouse teachers, but I think i may have struck it lucky this year.. Regardless, its the same with alot of classes and not just art, you get the same mottley lot (chick cliques are the worst imo, not being sexist either) at the back of the room either fucking about, not listening or just being plain rude and disrespectful. Alot of guys are like that too, mind you.

    I'd deffinently go along with what other people have been saying, speak with your Dean, give those stuck-up shits the what-for when you find them aswell. You paid top dollar for a course that would've had a really good teacher if it weren't for them after all, and theyer the people who will fuck up later and have a whinge about 'im not good enough for this, this is all your fault'. See if you can find sal again aswell and talk with him, see if he teaches any other classes. Hell, if hes anything like the teacher I got this year he might be holding after-school lecture/art sessions, its deffinately worth a shot to ask.

  13. #12
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    great advise from the folks above.. talk some ense to the dean. if that doesnt work you can hold all the girls hostage until Sal comes back.. best of luck man, sorry for the crappy class experience. - JAG
    it's only after you've lost everything, that you're free to do anything..

  14. #13
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    if possible,ask him if he could give you extra courses in the evenings,twice a week or more,incase your new teacher should suck again.
    and tell those stuck-up b*tches what's what.
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  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seedling
    Rhineville - go have a talk with your dean. He needs to hear this stuff from you. And if you're up to it, the next time you pass one of those childish girls in the hallway, give her a piece of your mind, too. seriously, don't hold back. They need a verbal spanking for driving away a good teacher, and they need to grow up, start learning, and quit blaming other people for their failures.

    [edit] Oh, and you can tell them that you were given permission to chew them out by a woman. ;-)

    [edit again] Oh, and track down Sal! Let him know what you thought of him, and that you think the situation is absurd. Your words will bolster his confidence, and next time he won't be so quick to retreat.
    hehe, good ideas, seedling :p

    My coordinator ray is trying to contact sal to see whats going on. He's about as pissed as I am. I said 'just finally when we get a guy who kows what he's doing' and he says 'of course we can't have that...'

    so sal is being tracked down. As for giving the girls a piece of my mind, I don't want to antagonize them out of the blue(should have told my dean when I had the chance on wednesday.... blarg!) as I DO have to have class with these peple for the rest of the semester, and none of it will bring sal back. But the second anyone of them say anything to ME, then the cannons will fire.

    Then I'll tell them that an awesome artist lady told me to tell them they suck.

  16. #15
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    My best teachers were the roughest. Students need to shut their holes when it comes to the teacher being a hardass. The only time they should complain is when the teacher is not challenging them enough.
    If you want good ass-patting crits, ask your momma how good you are! ;p
    Oh and you can add another female reference to back your argum- opinions.

  17. #16
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    Really dude, it is your education. You are paying for it so make sure you are getting what you want out of it. Don't let anyone cheat you out of it. Time is too short and learning too important.
    I agree with everyone above. If you were really getting the help you needed then get Sal to mentor you on the side. good luck and kick some trash.

  18. #17
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    tough break, rhineville... though I never went through your exact situation, I had something similar happen. My favourite teacher was made to retire in my 2nd year (he was old and kind of ill, but still perfectly capable and didn't want to stop working) and his replacement was rubbish. Made me mad... I actually transferred out soon after that and I'm really glad I did. The students in your program sound a lot like the ones in mine.

    I'm with everybody else. Talk to the dean. Find Sal and thank him (and urge him to come back or tutor you on the side). Good luck with it.. make the most out of school. Remember though, that often the best thing it gives you is *time* ... time to mature and time to guide your own artistic development. It'd be nice if they guided you, but in the absence of it, you've gotta take charge. It sounds like you are though
    Art is long and time is fleeting

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  19. #18
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    Wow, that freakin' blows!

    I agree with everyone else, find Sal and let him know. Sounds like he's been through this kind of crap before and got tired of it, so I'm sure he'll appreciate knowing that competence and real teaching are still valued by someone.
    -My work can be found at my local directory thread.

  20. #19
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    ROFL!!!! Welcome to the system! It is a sad reality that the system is running all the good teachers out.

    But, don't let yourself get frustrated and angry anymore.

    (Little secret).....

    Life isn't fair. It's not even supposed to be fair.
    Now that you know this, You will only find one teacher in this world who will help you become a great artist. That teacher is you!

    Don't worry or waste your time concerning yourself with what those girls did. Your teacher didn't. They are a dime a dozen in the real world. In fact, they sound like they would be more successfull in government politics than art! LOL!

    Bottom line:

    Just keep doing your art, don't mind the side shows and make the most out of it.
    Last edited by otis; February 26th, 2007 at 03:54 PM.
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  21. #20
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    No good art teacher really teaches anything. They merely help us teach ourselves. Improvement, in this day and age especially, depends more on the student than on the teacher. Students who do not allow others to help them teach themselves, like the girls in your class, have already ground their artistic futures to a halt. No teacher can do the job for you, you need to do it yourself.

    - d.
    Brendan Noeth


  22. #21
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Seedling
    Rhineville - go have a talk with your dean. He needs to hear this stuff from you. And if you're up to it, the next time you pass one of those childish girls in the hallway, give her a piece of your mind, too. seriously, don't hold back. They need a verbal spanking for driving away a good teacher, and they need to grow up, start learning, and quit blaming other people for their failures.

    [edit] Oh, and you can tell them that you were given permission to chew them out by a woman. ;-)

    [edit again] Oh, and track down Sal! Let him know what you thought of him, and that you think the situation is absurd. Your words will bolster his confidence, and next time he won't be so quick to retreat.
    I agree especially the tracking down of Sal, just cause he isn't teaching in your class doesn't mean you can't look to him for a great critique or learning experience still...

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