Sketchbook: Life drawings of androids - Page 3
Join the #1 Art Workshop - LevelUpJoin Premium Art Workshop

Page 3 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 363
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Over Inking

    I inked one of the poses from the life drawing session earlier today - the one from the back. Specifically, I was working on texture and shading. I have a long way to go on this, and I know I overdid it on this one. Or something.

    Here are two versions. One is at original size and one is at just over half-size, which would often happen in a print context. I've also noticed that reducing images quite a bit often reveals the flaws in them.

    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Bay area, CA
    Posts
    711
    Thanks
    39
    Thanked 80 Times in 59 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Hey, I noticed in a lot of your gestures you have some imperfections and bumps as if you were drawing a real figure. This is normally alright, but with gestures you don't focus on anatomy, I noticed you were drawing genitalia on your male gestures, this isn't necessary. With gestures you aren't going for realism in the shape, you're trying to capture the essence of the pose: the rhythm, balance, you want to be able to describe the pose to the person viewing this with as few lines as possible, so to hell with anatomy for those!

    Heres an analogy to what you're doing with your gestures; if you've ever asked someone what a movie is about, then they reply with things that happened in the movie and keep going on and on about things that happen in the movie but aren't really about the whole picture or plot, and you want to know what the movie is about! Not small parts, you want to know what's going on in as little as possible like a sentence or so, right now, you're telling me a bunch of parts that I don't care about!
    Check out Glen Orbik's site, here's his gallery with some of his gestures in it so you can get an idea of what to do with your gestures. http://orbikart.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=6

    Here's some in particular that I'm talking about:
    http://orbikart.com/gallery/albums/1..._sarah_qs1.jpg
    Look at the arms in this link below, figure on the right, he connects the arms with one line to create a flow, remember, AS FEW LINES AS POSSIBLE.
    http://orbikart.com/gallery/albums/1..._qs_frank2.jpg
    http://orbikart.com/gallery/albums/1...normal_qs1.jpg
    Notice things like the legs and arms, he doesn't construct them so to speak, he lets them flow! A lot of limbs on his gestures go off the page even though they should stop way before.

    Last edited by Kvick; May 1st, 2007 at 09:42 PM.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Bologna, Italy
    Posts
    4,538
    Thanks
    532
    Thanked 695 Times in 475 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    hey man

    nice stuff here so far, but my suggestion is to work not just on copying refernced photos, but try n understand their internal construction first.Break up the human shape in blocks, twist them, bend 'em get the proportion right.
    You should take a look at Loomis, Bridgeman or Hogart books, there's pretty useful.But anyway, life drawing is useful anyway.
    Just keep the studies focused and you'll improve in no time

    keep sharing

    ciao

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Bet you thought I'd forgotten the Arabian Nights stuff, huh?

    Kvick: You're right - I do need to work on them. Thanks for the ones you posted - they're fantastic. Another friend of mine suggested I do them with the brush or pen rather than pencil, so I'm going to give that a try too.

    TheGnoll: I do have a couple of Bridgman books and am working on blocking out, etc. I just need to do more of it, like Puck does on his sb. Thanks for the comments!

    ---

    These posts are all about trying to block out a panel I'm working on in which Masrur, the bodyguard, is putting down another character in a bed while the Caliph looks on. Frankly, some of these are embarrassing, but oh well. Especially the first one. I have to laugh when I look at it, because it looks like Masrur is doing unnatural things to the poor guy.

    Though his body is a bit small for his head, I like the study I did of Abu-Hasan (the guy being put in the bed). I'm still working on a consistent look for the Caliph.

    Attached Images Attached Images          
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Ya gotta hand it to 'em

    Some of these are copied from Bridgman's anatomy book, some are my own, and a couple are made up. Drawn with a black uniball pen.

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Montevideo, Uruguay
    Posts
    785
    Thanks
    176
    Thanked 272 Times in 99 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    nice hand studies, some of them are well constructed.
    i like the inked woman you have a nice transitions with lines.
    for the figures try to do more straigth lines insted of curves, that help to block the drawing and get the form you seek also prevent a too soft aspect...
    take this as a suggestion...
    keep working and have fun...

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    What's "Death Drawing" anyway?

    DIMAGYAN - Gracias por su consejo. Lo haré.

    ---

    This week's life drawing session. I concentrated on gestures, trying to keep lines fluid. I also did the gestures with my brush, which led to some that I hate and some that I like.

    After that, I did a gesture for the main pose and then a more rendered version of the main pose. The gesture looks much more relaxed and natural to me, though a bit of that is that the model did stiffen up a bit further into the session. In the rendering, I tried doing some shading with hatch lines that weren't necessarily equally spaced apart, and I like how it turned out. See under the leg on the right side of the drawing. I don't particularly like the shading under the arm on the left side.

    Yesterday I took my daughter to the school fair and did a bunch of gestures while she spent all her tickets in the Moon Bounce. I'll post some of them later.

    Here is today's stuff:

    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Neck Anatomy! Woohoo!

    Today's lunchtime sketching, courtesy of Gray's anatomy. The top one is pencil and pen, the bottom is just pencil - darkened a bit.

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Harun Al-Rashid study

    Today's lunchtime activity was this sketch. I like it enough to keep working it. For example, I want his left shoulder to be a little lower so that the elbow can rest more closely on the knee. His turban is a little out of balance also. What else do you spot that could be fixed?

    He's supposed to be in conversation with Abu Hasan, listening intently and involved in the story he's being told. What do you think about having both elbows on the knees with the hands meeting in the middle?

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    468
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Hey man, your studies are really developing. Love the hands. Brush is an awesome choice for gestures. You put a lot of emphasis on contour and your lines are getting more confident, but I'd like to see you doing more with value and creating volume, especially in those nude studies. The brush is perfect for this; use a big one and go for it.

    The last sketch is a great concept, I think it's a good "listening" pose, though perhaps he could lean forward a bit more. But I like the idea of both elbows on knees. Try it out!

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Sunday Life Drawing

    I finally got to meet Nilah.

    The model was a bit late to the session, so we only had 3 five minute gestures. When she started the long pose, though, I did gestures from several angles, plus more boxy quick-studies. Then I settled in for a pencil sketch. I concentrated on the neck since I'd done anatomy studies on it recently. It's a bit over-rendered, but I was able to pick out all the surfance structures I'd worked at before. I also had trouble with the face.

    Below that is Saturday's work. I was at an outdoor event so got to practice drawing foliage. The tree isn't actually broken, I was just lazy.

    Finally is an inked version of Harun Al-Rashid, listening as before. I experimented with some patch-hatching in the background of the chair, and I think I like the effect.

    Attached Images Attached Images          
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Dancer

    I did three gestures today at lunch based on some photos of Narah, one of our friends who is a belly dancer. Yep, those are candles she's balancing on her head in the first one. Here are the originals, followed by the gestures. I've got an idea or two for more fully rendered drawings, but I haven't decided whether to go further with it yet.





    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Last edited by scottmcd; May 14th, 2007 at 06:57 PM.
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  13. #73
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    174
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Hi!

    Thanks for stopping by my sketchbook... I like the helicopter pilot drawing a lot! And I think the life drawing studies on the first page were coming along very well. Keep up the good work!

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Cityscapes

    In keeping with the whole Arabian Nights thing, I figured I need to start working on architecture, cities, buildings, and such. This is a sketch of a city in the foothills of mountains. Below it on the same page is a sketch of some city gates based on the Bab Zuweila city gate in Egypt. This is slightly reduced.

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    More like... an "indexfingernail" than a thumbnail

    Irina: Thanks - you too.

    ---

    This is today's lunchtime sketch. It's time to start pulling together the various things I've been sketching lately into what I intended to be a thumbnail but then turned out a bit larger than I expected. I plan to finish and ink this one, then see if it interests me enough to do a larger version. As always, comments and crits are welcome.

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Nearly there...

    So, here's the nearly finished version of the picture I'm doing for my dad's birthday. I have a couple of details to finish up, and I'm still looking at line weights throughout. I'm still researching what was on the patch on his left shoulder and the thing on his left collar. All those earlier ones were drafts and practice versions. This is the real thing, actual size. Eep.

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Done

    Here's the finished picture of my dad, for his present. It's in being framed even now. I'm mostly happy with it, though one thing bugs me. There at the very end I added some texture to his face. The small lines above the eyebrow and on the right side of his face don't work. I added them based on one of the suggestions I received - a draw-over in fact. It looked good on the draw-over, but they didn't work on the finished version. I considered using white ink to get rid of them, but there's a difference between having white ink or white-out for scanning/printing and actually having it there in front of you. So, I opted to leave them in. When I color it and do additional prints for family, I'll remove the lines. Anyway, here it is.

    ETA: Mishra, over on the WIP board, pointed out over the weekend that his right arm is resting on a half-opened window. Amazed that I hadn't seen that, I added in a suggestion of the window and removed the three reflection lines that had been above his arm.

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    The inked version of the spirit over the city. What's going on here? Good question - I'm still working it out. In the meantime, I may try a larger version in a little while, but not right away.

    How would you portray this as a twilight or dusk scene using ink?

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    CHOW 73: Soul Collector

    Starting to work out the Soul Collector chow. It's got to have a device it uses to collect the souls, can be male or female, and should have some facial deformity.

    ETA: Inked version over lunch on Friday. Maybe I'll get to coloring it, but probably not.

    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Last edited by scottmcd; May 25th, 2007 at 03:26 PM.
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Dad's Present, and a Candleholder

    I gave my dad his present today, the framed original of the most recent version I posted. I also scanned it at 600 dpi and gave him that on CD, along with the various preparatory sketches and pieces. He really liked it and said it was one of the few drawings of him that he thought actually looked like him. So, good deal there.

    While at their house, I took a quiet moment to sketch a glass candleholder and candle, first in pencil then brush. That's today's sketch.

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  21. #81
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Rapture, or else just a really strong wind machine

    This is a doodle from me own head - working on proportion and lighting. I know that her right arm is a touch too short. I'm going to lengthen it before I try inking.

    I also have a hell of a time drawing heads from below or when they're tilted back, as in this case. Any advice for that kind of thing?

    ETA: I've inked part of it, and I find that I like the mix of ink and pencil. I do plan to erase the pencil and continue the inking, and I'll post that when I've done it. - Done now. Still not happy with the face, but I like the contrast in it. I'm thinking of adding a background in pencil and then inking it in a similar style. The only question is, what background?

    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Last edited by scottmcd; May 28th, 2007 at 06:26 PM.
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  22. #82
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    ATL & Nashville
    Posts
    943
    Thanks
    33
    Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Keep up the gestures! Try to do random exercises with your ink as well. Just practice rendering different lighting scenes and objects so you can tackle bigger projects with more ease and confidence.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  23. #83
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Ow! ow ow ow ow ow. OW!

    In honor of my recently re-sprained ankle (twice in about a month!), here are some anatomy studies:

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  24. #84
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Harun al-Rashid, again

    Harun al-Rashid, for the first panel on page 2 of the comic. I'm still considering the background. It's supposed to be somewhat dark, lit by a couple of sconces, so I could do a simple cross-hatch background and leave it at that, or I could put in some of the room he's in - his bedroom in fact. But, here's the first part. This was about a half-hour's drawing and a half-hour's inking.

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  25. #85
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    643
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 137 Times in 89 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    i really enjoy your graphic style. its very...well graphic. it reminds me a lot of comic books....and i really love it when people do studies of muscles....only leads to better drawings.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  26. #86
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    I live in Ohio
    Posts
    75
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    When I look at a lot of your work, I feel that less is more. Your more minimal stuff is quite excelent, but you sometimes hurt the quality when you add more lines. Post 38 is an example of what I mean

    TR Sketch Group
    Macar, Pound
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  27. #87
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Montevideo, Uruguay
    Posts
    785
    Thanks
    176
    Thanked 272 Times in 99 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    hey nice improvements, i like this- http://conceptart.org/forums/attachm...1&d=1179100922
    the arabian nigth theme looks good. your last post and your dad draw looks good.
    for the twiligth or dusk scene (is like penumbra u oscuridad rigth?)
    if you want to do some atmosphere you could make the sky black with horizaontal lines and some withe spots for stars or clouds and the sand with dots with diferent shapes and sizes, or shadow the casttle perhaps? in any case try in another piece of paper(trace loosly your original drawing) and see what work the most...
    keep the good work and thanks for the words in my sb

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  28. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Teddy Bear Asylum

    The Character of the Week this time has been absent. Or rather, the person who is supposed to supply the topic has disappeared, so the topic remains "TBA." A number of people there have been doing their own version of what TBA means. Here's mine: Teddy Bear Asylum.

    BTW: The life drawing sessions at MCC start back up again this week, but at looks as if I'll have to miss this one.

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  29. #89
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Updating my profile

    I practiced profiles this evening, trying to work out proportions and such. I often misplace the ear (as I did to poor Estelle, below), and I sometimes have trouble getting the mouth right. Particularly in the more elastic expressions where it's doing something interesting.

    Also, I've been working mostly in pencil and then inking. I decided to do these pencil only and start re-familiarizing myself with shading. (15 years ago it was about the only way I drew faces.) Ralph was the result of that one.

    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by scottmcd; June 2nd, 2007 at 07:29 PM.
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

  30. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    776
    Thanks
    152
    Thanked 157 Times in 80 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Life Drawings

    DIMAGYAN: Thanks for the suggestions. I'll give it a try.

    Macar: You're right. It takes more work for me to get to the minimalist stage, but it's worth it.

    ped454: Thanks. I am coming from a comics perspective. At least, my current goal is to get good enough so that I can avoid embarrasing myself as I draw whatever stories I have in mind.

    ----

    Today's gestures and long pose from the life drawing session.

    About the pose, The leg proportions are about right, but I misplaced her left knee. She's quite tall, about 6 feet. I also didn't do the face as well as I'd like. I experimented with using both ink and pencil for the shading.

    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Last edited by scottmcd; June 3rd, 2007 at 02:43 PM.
    Take a look at my series of in-depth critiques, like this one of Salvador Dali's hidden portrait of Lincoln.

    Scott's Sketchbook: Check out my sketchbook. Will swap C&Cs.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote  

Page 3 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ... LastLast

Members who have read this thread: 2

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •