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Thread: drawing on acid

  1. #1
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    drawing on acid

    Sorry if this is old, used the search, found nothing

    http://www.cowboybooks.com.au/html/acidtrip1.html
    found it quite interesting..

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    some of those are pretty damn tight.

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    interresting indeed, some drawings are pretty cool, and the comments are quite funny,
    still this is a horrible thing to do to a person.
    I hope that person never had aftereffects after that.
    now you can see how irresponsible the goverment has been, and still could be.

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    I think some are spot on interesting, but I don't like the factor of "loss of control...."

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    heh.. how come i never get to participate in things like that?? ohhh wait.. yeah i did, it was called high school.. i think. - JAG

    it's only after you've lost everything, that you're free to do anything..
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    well,it's been posted 2 times before,but i guess it just never gets old...
    my fav is the one after 4 hours,where he "makes the last half-dozen strokes while running across the room".
    (the only thing bothering me is that my ex-gf is an acid freak)

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    Anyone interested by this should check out the documentary Hoffman's Potion on youtube.
    0shade0: I don't think it was horrible at all, and probably this test was done voluntarily. In the US the research was mainly done by the military and CIA pursuing LSD as a weapon, in other countries, such as Canada most of the research was being done in a psychotheraputic strain. There was a startling success rate curing cronic alcoholics. Also, there are far too many lies and misunderstandings about these drugs, one of them being, "you're going to have crazy after effects where you loose all control for the rest of your life" Albert Hoffman dosed himself in his first controlled experiment with what he thought was the smallest amount of the substance that could still be active...25 milligrams...LSD it turns out is active in micrograms. He literally took the equivalent of thousands of hits of acid, and he came out the other end fine, and is to this day a totally sane old Swiss man. The real irresponsible action of the government was to ban these things out right and let urban myth replace fact. Infact I would say that's the primary failing of our drug laws, that they are based on misinformation, bias, and personal agendas, and not scientific fact.

    Last edited by Cthogua; February 22nd, 2007 at 09:13 AM.
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    My impression from this piece: over the space of eight hours, the volunteer produced nine sketches that looks like they were produced by nine people. In that same amount of time he could have produced one eight-hour piece of work or multiple consistent sketches, and he would have ended with no hangover.

    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Seedling
    My impression from this piece: over the space of eight hours, the volunteer produced nine sketches that looks like they were produced by nine people. In that same amount of time he could have produced one eight-hour piece of work or multiple consistent sketches, and he would have ended with no hangover.

    lol yeah buit he probably did interestign piece sof artwork he could never expand from previous to the dose....Cthogua I agree this isnt some poor lab rat stuff, probably voluntary and under a controlled environment...

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    This is really interesting. I also like the one where he ran around while drawing the portrait.
    Cthogua. I have to disagree with you on this: "Infact I would say that's the primary failing of our drug laws, that they are based on misinformation, bias, and personal agendas, and not scientific fact"
    Everyone reacts differently to drugs, Just because some scientist came out alright doesn't mean others wouldn't. I am not a scientist, but I know for a personal fact that people can come out pretty screwed up doing drugs, it completely changes their lives. It does effect you and it is ignorant to think otherwise. But by all means it is your own life, just take responsibilty for yourself when your in a half-way house trying to get sober and the only job you can do is to be a Grocery Clerk.

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    Drugs are bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rabid Peanut
    lol yeah buit he probably did interestign piece sof artwork he could never expand from previous to the dose....Cthogua I agree this isnt some poor lab rat stuff, probably voluntary and under a controlled environment...
    Any of the styles that his art went through while stones can be learned, controlled, and repeated while sober. Relying on a drug to reach a particular style would be a monumental waste of all the getting-there and recovery time, among other reasons.

    And yes, this was a controlled study, and the artist was a volunteer. Our government does not test on human subjects without their concent. Ever.

    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Flake
    Drugs are bad.
    mmkay

    - d.

    Brendan Noeth

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    Poise: I was in no way saying that drugs don't effect people and can't change lives, for the better or worse...and yes everyone does react differently to a certain degree to drugs, but if there weren't some large similarity we wouldn't have perscription drugs. I also agree that just because one scientist came out alright doesn't mean others nessecarily would, but we'll never know since research is prohibited. The largest problem, as I see it with western society and hallucinogens, is that we've lost the cultural context in which to place them. Many new world cultures have incorporated hallucinogens in ritual ways into their cultures for thousands of years, and they managed to work it out pretty well and not all end up drooling idiots. Infact most consider their experiences integral to a better understanding of their soceity and their world. Nobody's peeling themselves thinking they're an orange or any other such rediculousness. Look up Peruvian usage of Ayahuasca and you'll understand what I'm talking about. Also in almost every instance there is someone guiding the experience for the taker, the shaman. This person is there to help you process what is happening and to lead you away from confusion and fear to, hopefully, release and understanding. The problem is most people taking these substances in our society are doing so just to "get off" and have no context to place their new feelings and experiences in. Thus you have the 16 year old kid that managed to find some LSD somewhere (not too likely anymore), has heard maybe a few stories from movies and uninformed peers about what might happen, says "psshaw, I've been drunk before, I can handle this" drops his acid and goes to a party. He has unwittingly completed a recipie for disaster, he may still have a good time, he may also think he's going insane and call the police, the hospital, his parents, or worse, hurt himself or others. If there were more real, truthful information out there about what these things do, then he could have made a more informed decision...would he have definatly, theres no telling, but its in his hands at that point. However most people's heads are filled with complete non-sense and hysteria when it comes to the effects of hallucinogens. They lump them together with life destroying drugs like heroin and cocaine, completely ignorant of the differences. And hey, you don't need fancy hallucinogens...you can end up in a half-way house only able to work, if at all, at a grocery store with good ole friendly, stupifying alcohol you bought at that very same grocery store. All I'm saying is I want some rational examination of the facts of these substances, and laws based on those facts, not media fueled public hysteria or political game playing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seedling
    Our government does not test on human subjects without their concent. Ever.
    Thats just not true at all. Americas primary interest in LSD during the late 40s and 50s was as a weapon and the CIA has admitted to several cases of giving it to unwitting tests.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKULTRA

    "On the Senate floor in 1977, Senator Ted Kennedy said:

    The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over thirty universities and institutions were involved in an 'extensive testing and experimentation' program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens 'at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign.' Several of these tests involved the administration of LSD to 'unwitting subjects in social situations.'"

    now...thats from the Wikipedia, so take it as you will, but dig around anywhere you like and you'll find the same info.


    ....now the real threat is from threads I can't seem to stay away from

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    Hmm. It could have been that they volunteered to be subjects of an experiment, but not told the specifics of the experiment or the time that the experiment would start. This is done in behavioral studies on a regular basis. For instance, the subject will think they are waiting for a test to start, when they are already actually in the midst of the test.

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    Anyone ever see Jacobs Ladder? If you havent I recommend you watch it, it's relevant to this discussion, and is a very good movie.

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    hmmm i like 6 and 7 most...quite interesting...but heck ... you don`t need drugs to be creative.......

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    Oooh. I think I sense a can of worms being opened up!

    Okay, here's my take. Some drugs are very bad: Heroine, Crystal Meth, Cocaine, Crack, and similar drugs. Some drugs are sort of bad, like LSD. And some drugs are not bad unless abused. Such as alchohol, Marijuana, shrooms, peyote, and other natural hallucinogens.

    The problem is the that the government and DEA employees make too much money on fighting the war against drugs. If you look at that war like any other war, it's kind of scary. You could consider that this war started in the late 1800's when the US and China agreed to prohibit opium shipping. That means we've been fighting a war against ourselves for over 100 years! I don't know about you, but can you imagine fighting in Vietnam or Iraq for that long?

    Also, since the early 1900's drug usage has consistantly increased, and as of 2006 Marijuana has become the US' biggest cash crop.

    Sure drugs have ruined peoples lives, but what was it that really ruined their lives? You'll say it's the drugs (and in some cases you're right), but how many people have had their lives ruined because the law has punished them.

    Example: I know someone who was a great special-ed teacher. She lost her job because of an addiction to heroine. I can't say I don't blame the school district, who wants an addict teaching their kids. However, because of her felony conviction from the drug offense she can never teach in a school again. Now she works odd jobs here and there, and continues to be an on and off drug user with a totally pointless life. Imagine if the system helped her by letting her go back to work, having health insurance that covered treatment and therapy, and helped her be a productive citizen by treating her problem as a disease rather than a crime. Imagine how many other people would not be in prison, and would still be contributing to society rather than sucking money from it. But that will never happen because an integral part of the war is to spread propaganda that will make society view the drugs and their users as evil.

    That's enough for now. I could go on forever!

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    ever seen Jacob's Ladder... on weeeeed?? or try it on acid. but tell your family you love them before you do. you may not be coming back.. - JAG

    it's only after you've lost everything, that you're free to do anything..
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    Dude I agree with you mostly regarding the creativity thing...but you're seeing it wrong. Creativity is a state of mind and a way of approaching things, what fuels that creativity is experience and knowledge. The reason hallucinogens are often credited with boosting creativity I think has more to do with that fact that its simply a brand new experience.

    And as far as helping chronic alcoholism goes, it's just trading one addiction for another.
    Thats not true at all, and it highlights the fact that people know more false information than truth regarding this subject matter. Anyone who knows anything experientially about LSD knows theres nothing inherantly addictive about it at all. I would say video games and TV pose a more insideous addiction threat. And yes, addiction has more to do with behavior than objects. Originally the thought behind using it to treat alcoholism was that it would give them this shocking, semi-psychotic experience and they would not want to drink anymore. One of the scientists in the documentary makes the very good point that most alcoholics are very tolerant of their own shortcomings, its this acceptance that makes their behavior excusable in their eyes. What ended up happening was these people were having semi-spiritual experiences and getting an objective view on what they were doing, not only to themselves, but more significantly their family and friends. It was actually this experience that proved so useful in getting them to quit. One of the effects of moderatly high doses of most hallucinogens is "ego death" Egoless Awareness is probably a better term, as the awareness of thoughts and things and memories is still there, however its like viewing those things through a brand new eye. The South American users of Ayahuasca describe a state where they see their actions through anothers eyes, and thus gain a better understanding of how their actions affect others and the community. Whether or not they were really "seeing through anothers eyes" is completely unimportant since the resulting effect is that they gain an objective, or atleast different view of their actions.

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    Hey, Fat Kid (haha that's funny)! In the position you're coming from your point is valid. However, and I don't know all your life experiences, but you honestly don't know what you're talking about. Imagine the real world of drug use and its' related problems lives inside of a big house. You're outside that house trying to look in through the windows, but you can't see what's in all the rooms, and you can't hear what anybody is talking about. That's the position you're coming from. It would be like a guy who's read a couple of books about drawing telling you how to draw.

    I speak from experience, not that of an addict (even though when I was younger I partook in just about everything), but of someone who has seen the inside of that house. Someone who has sat down and hung out with those who live in it.

    By the way Cthogua, I agree with everything you said.

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    And Iíll vehemently agree with you on the creativity part. However, when it comes to addiction, not all drugs are the same. Some, such as heroin, are more immediately addictive than others, more likely to compel an addicted person back to using after they have cleaned up their act, and more likely to become a destroyer of a userís life, rather than remain an occasional bit of chemical indulgence. LSD doesnít have heroinís reputation for devastating every life it touches, and its users are sometimes or often able to choose to stop taking it, and able to walk away without a fight.

    My suspicion is that the danger of LSD use (or the use of any drug that is known to be softer than heroin) is that those who are likely to try one soft recreational drug are just as likely to try others. The more exposure means the more chance that somewhere along the line, addiction to something becomes more likely to happen. Kind of like the more unprotected sex you have, the more of a chance you have of catching an STD. And much as with the transmission of STDs, I believe education is a primary key to preventing addiction, and that anything the government might do to control the substances is going to be secondary. Itís the demand for drugs that fuels the supply; teach people not to want the drugs, and the violence, crime, and addiction surrounding drugs will dwindle away.

    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

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    There seems to be a missunderstanding I think about the motivations for taking something like LSD. Seedling earlier you criticized the test saying that any one of the "styles" represented in the test were easily learnable and reproducable sans drug. This is totally true, however the point of the test was not to see if the user could achieve some sort of mastery while on LSD, it was more to see what he would produce. My understanding of the images he produced are more along the lines of it being an attempted recording of the perceptual changes happening to him. It certianly isn't going to make you better at anything, and I would never advocate that or say that its in any way true. Learning is something you do mechanically, by working, trying, thinking, and reading. Experience is something different, you can choose to learn from an experience or you can close it out. I totally agree that relying on a drug to "get you there" is foolish, thats not what its about. Its like going to a really good concert, where you come home and are really inspired overall and use that inspiration to provide fuel for the fire. Can you find inspiration elsewhere? ABSOLUTLY, its everywhere, but that isn't really a reason to shut out one type of experience. So its not about the drug being a tool that is going to make you more skillful, or better, or anything really. LSD and other "entheogenic" hallucinogens are good things, and useful in my mind because they provide our narrow, every day sensabilities with a taste of something wholly different.

    In regards to the addiction aspect...Seedling your point is waaay over simplified. Just because I like meat doesn't mean I'd eat a dead rat. The "he tried one so he's probably going to try the other" arguement assumes that the effects of all these drugs are the same, and that to take one assumes a manical pill popping attitude. Now, the spirit of experimentation is different than ritualized use, in which on takes something for a specific, known effect. One solely interested in drug experimentation probably is more likely to try something else, however the risks of "getting hooked" are really up to them to weigh. I would never try heroin...I've known people that were heavy users and seen what it turns them into. They are really the best anti-heroin ad you can make. Where does that leave hallucinogens though? Most of the "spokes people" for them are often articulate, educated, spiritual people. Sure theres the weirdo old hippy guy...but honestly, I've met plenty of people that are weirdos without any drugs, so its just as likely to have been a "pre-existing condition" than anything brought on by "the brown acid" or any other such folkloric drug foolishness. The goverments complete ban on even scientific research and campaigns of propaganda have lead to the replacing, in the public mind, of true information, with folklore, hearsay, and out right lies.

    Sorry if this kind of rambles I had to write it quickly on my lunch break

    It’s the demand for drugs that fuels the supply; teach people not to want the drugs, and the violence, crime, and addiction surrounding drugs will dwindle away.
    Good luck with that, you have 5000 years of recorded human history, nevermind what happened in prehistory, going against you. I say the best thing that could ever happen in this regards is that people learn to take responsibility for their own actions, and not excuse their behavior as something out of their control (barring physical defect of course) Incidentally, the violence and crime surrounding drugs are really more a product of their being illegal. You arn't going to have gangs fighting over supply for something you can buy at the grocery store.

    Last edited by Cthogua; February 23rd, 2007 at 01:13 PM.
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    Interesting thread

    There's a theory (or so I heard on a documentary) that hallucinogenic mushrooms (along with being shut in a cave for too long) is what first inspired "cave men" to create images. Very interesting indeed.

    Where does that leave hallucinogens though? Most of the "spokes people" for them are often articulate, educated, spiritual people.
    I dunno, man. At the same time *I've* met a few hallucinogenic users that are just beyond screwed-up. Like you said, hallucinogens affect different people in different ways. Sure, you could have a great time, see things from an different angle, have a deep spiritual experience, but you could also end up with permanent psychosis. It's Russian roulette. Most of the people I know who use hallicinogenics are teenagers who live in the suburbs. Then again, my boyfriend went on an acid binge that lasted from the mid 80's to the early 90's. He's increadibly intelligent, albeit he has a few screws loose.

    *shrug* Me? I don't need drugs to be weird, haah.

    So, yeah. Not for me. But I wouldn't go all "soccer mom" on someone's ass if they wanted to try it out.

    As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle being swept along is no longer enough.

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    Cth, you seem to be under the impression that I'm anti-drug, and that what I've said is in complete disagreement to what you said. Neither is true. I don't have time to yak just now, but in the mean time you may want to reread what I wrote.

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  28. #27
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    Sorry to come off that way Seedling, I kinda rushed through that response at lunch. I realize you're not completely anti-drug nor in complete disagreement. My arguement wasn't really aimed at you. Just the generalized statement of "those who are likely to try one soft recreational drug are just as likely to try others." that kinda irked out the response, and the thing about the styles and whatnot was just something I was thinking about last night. I would like to hear/read more of your thoughts on the matter when you get the chance.

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    We keep talking about illegal drugs, but what about legal ones? What bothers me is that the government attempts to control the illegal ones, but the prescription ones are just as bad. Look at oxycontin, that's basicallly a synthetic morphine. What makes your prescription of oxy ok, but not your bag of heroine?

    Another thing a lot of people don't know about is methadone. That's what they use to "help" some addicts. It's controlled and regulated, and the people in the clinics have to go everyday to get their dose. The problem is that methadone, while it doesn't really make you high, it just gives your body the opiate it craves so you don't have withdrawls. This stuff is bad, and the government gives it to people. It's also 10 times as hard to quit methadone than heroine, and many people that decide to enter this program for help quitting drugs end up addicted to methadone for the rest of their lives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seedling
    My impression from this piece: over the space of eight hours, the volunteer produced nine sketches that looks like they were produced by nine people. In that same amount of time he could have produced one eight-hour piece of work or multiple consistent sketches, and he would have ended with no hangover.
    And you completely miss the point. Good job.

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    Methadone is certainly something I cannot understand. Point blank its just as bad as being hooked to heroin or any super heavy drugs.

    Coming from a standppoint of a person that has dabbled with quite a few different "controlled substances" I would say that its def. an individual basis as to if a person will get hooked to a particular drug or not or if a person will use this "soft" drug as a gateway to other drugs. Personally, I never smoked pot until I was about 21 or 22 and had xtc on numerous occasions before that.. So, pot being a gateway drug for me is basically bullshit but, for others Im sure it is... Certain people have different personalities and I think that this is the major cause of addiction... I know people that have dabbled with drugs for years and you would never know it but, show you someone else that just started dabbling and you can tell their screwed.
    Im a true believer about how certain drugs can tap into your mind and allow you to explore things you didnt imagine you could. I mean personally I become extremely focus when I smoke pot. I can sit in front of a sketchbook and bang out drawing after drawing...

    Mainloop- man i must be dyslexic.. cuz i thought you asked how many people are on lsd

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