Bit of advice from Craigslist for artists/illustrators/etc
 
View testimonialsView Artwork
Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Limbo
    Posts
    625
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 24 Times in 13 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

    Bit of advice from Craigslist for artists/illustrators/etc

    An interesting post on Craigslist. Crossposted from IllustrationNet's Quinton Hoover. I think it is a trap that everyone falls into every so often, sometimes to be nice, sometimes for practice, sometimes because we are talked into it.:

    http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/crg/266662037.html

    Or, pasted here:

    Every day, there are more and more CL posts seeking "artists" for everything from auto graphics to comic books to corporate logo designs.
    More people are finding themselves in need of some form of illustrative service.

    But what they're NOT doing, unfortunately, is realizing how rare someone with these particular talents can be.

    To those who are "seeking artists", let me ask you;
    How many people do you know, personally, with the talent and skill to perform the services you need? A dozen? Five? One? ...none?

    More than likely, you don't know any. Otherwise, you wouldn't be posting on craigslist to find them.

    And this is not really a surprise.

    In this country, there are almost twice as many neurosurgeons as there are professional illustrators.
    There are eleven times as many certified mechanics.
    There are SEVENTY times as many people in the IT field.

    So, given that they are less rare, and therefore less in demand, would it make sense to ask your mechanic to work on your car for free?
    Would you look him in the eye, with a straight face, and tell him that his compensation would be the ability to have his work shown to others as you drive down the street?

    Would you offer a neurosurgeon the "opportunity" to add your name to his resume as payment for removing that pesky tumor?
    (Maybe you could offer him "a few bucks" for "materials". What a deal!)

    Would you be able to seriously even CONSIDER offering your web hosting service the chance to have people see their work, by viewing your website, as their payment for hosting you?

    If you answered "yes" to ANY of the above, you're obviously insane.

    If you answered "no", then kudos to you for living in the real world.

    But then tell me... why would you think it is okay to live out the same, delusional, ridiculous fantasy when seeking someone whose abilities are even less in supply than these folks?

    Graphic artists, illustrators, painters, etc., are skilled tradesmen.
    As such, to consider them as, or deal with them as, anything less than professionals fully deserving of your respect is both insulting and a bad reflection on you as a sane, reasonable person.
    In short, it makes you look like a twit.

    A few things you need to know;

    1. It is not a "great opportunity" for an artist to have his work seen on your
    car/'zine/website/bedroom wall, etc.
    It IS a "great opportunity" for YOU to have their work there.

    2. It is not clever to seek a "student" or "beginner" in an attempt to get
    work for free. It's ignorant and insulting.
    They may be "students", but that does not mean they don't deserve to be paid
    for their hard work.
    You were a "student" once, too. Would you have taken that job at McDonalds
    with no pay, because you were learning essential job skills for the real
    world?
    Yes, your proposition it JUST as stupid.

    3. The chance to have their name on something that is going to be seen by
    other people, whether it's one or one million, is NOT a valid enticement.
    Neither is the right to add that work to their "portfolio".
    They get to do those things ANYWAY, after being paid as they should.
    It's not compensation. It's their right, and it's a given.

    4. Stop thinking that you're giving them some great chance to work.
    Once they skip over your silly ad, as they should, the next ad is usually for
    someone who lives in the real world, and as such, will pay them.
    There are far more jobs needing these skills than there are people
    who possess these skills.

    5. Students DO need "experience". But they do NOT need to get it by giving
    their work away. In fact, this does not even offer them the experience they
    need. Anyone who will not/can not pay them is obviously the type of person or
    business they should be ashamed to have on their resume anyway.
    Do you think professional contractors list the "experience" they got
    while nailing down a loose step at their grandmother's house when they were
    seventeen?
    If you your company or gig was worth listing as desired experience, it would
    be able to pay for the services it received.
    The only experience they will get doing free work for you is a lesson learned
    in what kinds of scrubs they should not lower themselves to deal with.

    6. (This one is FOR the artists out there, please pay attention.)
    Some will ask you to "submit work for consideration". They may even be posing
    as some sort of "contest".
    These are almost always scams.
    They will take the work submitted by many artists seeking to win the
    "contest", or be "chosen" for the gig, and find what they like most.
    They will then usually have someone who works for them, or someone who
    works incredibly cheap because they have no originality or talent of
    their own, reproduce that same work, or even just make slight modifications
    to it, and claim it as their own.
    You will NOT be paid, you will NOT win the contest.
    The only people who win, here, are the underhanded folks who run these ads.
    This is speculative, or "spec", work. It's risky at best, and a complete
    scam at worst.
    I urge you to avoid it, completely.


    So to artists/designers/illustrators looking for work, do everyone a favor, ESPECIALLY yourselves, and avoid people who do not intend to pay you. Whether they are "spec" gigs, or just some guy who wants a free mural on his living room walls. They need you. You do NOT need them.

    And for those who are looking for someone to do work for free... please wake up and join the real world. The only thing you're accomplishing is to insult those with the skills you need. Get a clue.

    Last edited by bat; January 30th, 2007 at 06:20 AM.
    ----------------------------------------
    Sans la colère. Sans la haine. Et sans la pitié.

    I always find myself instinctively arrayed on the side of the barbarian, against the powers of organized civilization. -- Robert E. Howard

    Writer, illustrator and artist.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,211
    Thanks
    4,879
    Thanked 16,679 Times in 5,021 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Rock on, Quinton.
    Everybody, click the link and nominate it for "best of."


    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    Crash Course for Artists, Illustrators, and Cartoonists, NYC, the 2013 Edition!

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,561
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 22 Times in 19 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Thankyou sir!
    Great read, and a huge help.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,529
    Thanks
    374
    Thanked 347 Times in 163 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Good read.

    DON'T CLICK THIS
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Lakselv, Norway
    Posts
    2,119
    Thanks
    591
    Thanked 1,014 Times in 376 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    aye, good summary.

    In the future, everyone will have 15 minutes of privacy.

    Portfolio
    Sketchblog
    Facebook art page
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
    Posts
    607
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 42 Times in 16 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Interesting read, although trying to convince those 'seeking artists' to do otherwise almost seems like a lost cause. Until artists stop agreeing to these empty proposals nothing will change.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Limbo
    Posts
    625
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 24 Times in 13 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by deschamps
    Interesting read, although trying to convince those 'seeking artists' to do otherwise almost seems like a lost cause. Until artists stop agreeing to these empty proposals nothing will change.

    I agree with you wholeheartedly. However, if this gets to half a dozen people and grows from there, it will have made an impact. Getting the information and advice out there is a step to getting those working in the illustration field the respect and pay that they deserve, especially newcomers.

    ----------------------------------------
    Sans la colère. Sans la haine. Et sans la pitié.

    I always find myself instinctively arrayed on the side of the barbarian, against the powers of organized civilization. -- Robert E. Howard

    Writer, illustrator and artist.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Midwest. USA
    Posts
    414
    Thanks
    16
    Thanked 19 Times in 13 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    AMEN TO THIS!

    but deschamps is right...artists need to stop taking these insulting offers because not only does it hurt themselves and their own potential future career, but everyone else in the field on top of that.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Limbo
    Posts
    625
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 24 Times in 13 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    And another related link, No-Spec:

    http://www.no-spec.com/

    ----------------------------------------
    Sans la colère. Sans la haine. Et sans la pitié.

    I always find myself instinctively arrayed on the side of the barbarian, against the powers of organized civilization. -- Robert E. Howard

    Writer, illustrator and artist.
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Philly PA
    Posts
    3,393
    Thanks
    108
    Thanked 1,476 Times in 469 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    not only does it hurt themselves and their own potential future career, but everyone else in the field on top of that
    though 99% of the time people do get what they pay for.

    "Every little step considered one at a time is not terribly daunting" - Ethan Coen

    New books and process DVD available NOW!

    www.dvpalumbo.com

    Quickie blog (nudity)
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Wiltshire, England
    Posts
    1,134
    Thanks
    32
    Thanked 30 Times in 11 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Good article. Bumped for in the hope some young artist will see this and read the last part very carefully!

    The sketchbook thread!

    The Art of David and Sarah Cousens: www.CoolSurface.com!
    The Cool Surface Art blog: http://CoolSurface.blogspot.com!

    Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DavidCousens
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    At my Desk
    Posts
    1,136
    Thanks
    567
    Thanked 336 Times in 112 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    You know, as a total beginner and student myself - I have been tagged half a dozen times directly to my email for work - one was actually a paid gig for work already seen and the others were all offering me the chance to work for them to 'show' my work.

    I turned them all down (except the paid gig) because deep down I just felt like I was being taken advantage of. I mean, I'm not that great but I /do/ work hard on what I do, and it does take my time and investment... I think I ought to be paid if someone is really wanting my work and time.

    I feel better reading this, to know that my personal integrity was intuitively correct =D

    Then again, I may be a brand new artist, but I'm not as green as some, being in my 30s kind of takes care of a lot of that

    “It is enough that we set out to mold the motley stuff of life into some form of our own choosing; when we do, the performance is itself the wage.”
    -Learned Hand

    "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom the emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause and stand wrapped in awe, is as good as dead; his eyes are closed." ~Albert Einstein

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    338
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Outstanding article. A must read fro aspiring artists everywhere.

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    2,522
    Thanks
    438
    Thanked 437 Times in 209 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    Thought I replied.... just wanted to thanks for posting I really need to read this .

    I second Elwell - click the link and click "best of" in the top right hand corner. Anyone who's perhaps skipped the read to find out what the jest of this is - read the article!

    - d.

    Brendan Noeth

    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Californication
    Posts
    1,091
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 39 Times in 20 Posts
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0
    CHEERS!

    "If one advances confidently in the direction of
    his dreams, and endeavors to live the life he
    has imagined, he will meet with a success
    unexpected in common hours."
    - H.D. Thoreau
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • 424,149 Artists
  • 3,599,276 Artist Posts
  • 32,941 Sketchbooks
  • 54 New Art Jobs
Art Workshop Discount Inside
Register

Developed Actively by vBSocial.com
The Art Department
SpringOfSea's Sketchbook