Raoul wants to look more masculine, can you help?

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    Question Raoul wants to look more masculine, can you help?

    Hello! I'm new here, I hope I'm posting in the right place. This is finished piece which I treat it as a character study - a portrait of an anime character rendered in a realistic way [Painter IX]. The whole final image is here, hairless head and cropped face for this thread are in attachments below (face treated with autolevels). [WIP thread at Epilogue forums.]
    Pssst, don't pay attention to his ears, added only for his sake


    I'm glad with the final result but he is still too feminine in look. As my all males in fact. He should have long wavy hair, green eyes and beautiful face, but should not be mistaken with a girl Here comes my question - what would you do to make him looking more masculine?

    I already enlarged his nose, but I guess it could be stressed more. I wish to save these mouth, though maybe I'll change them a bit. More sculpted cheeks, chin and nose would help. Any other suggestions? Paintovers are welcomed, just don't change his hair too much - they have to be long and wavy more or less looking like here.

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    Last edited by Sirielle; December 28th, 2006 at 02:27 PM.
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    As a prissy royalty guy, Id say hes manly enough. I guess If I were to make him more masculine, I would start with shrinking his lower lip so he doesn't look pouty. That in itself would be enough for me, but you can go even further my increasing the size of his jaw and nose and making his eyebrows less umm...maintained. Perhaps even a 5 o'clock shadow...just think of Solid Snake I guess if you want him rough without being hulking.

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    I think you just need to think BIGGER. You know how guys are about size...

    No, really. The nose needs to be broader still, and the lips, a little less stylized. Guys can have lush lips, and still look masculine, but seldom are lips shaped the way you have them there. Generally, I imagine guys as more angular, and women constructed more of curves. Lines vs. curves. The eyes are okay, as they appear to be sort of half-elven? But I think they need a little more lower lid. Guys have less fat under their skin (unless they're plump, of course), and therefore you can see the bones better. Sharper angles and shadows will give the impression of masculinity too. I did a quick and dirty paint-over for ya. Hope this helps!

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    Pay attention to the shape of the brow. You have is eyebrows arching like a well-plucked girl's, and the shape of the skull underneath is too smooth. Men typically have a more pronounced brow which makes their eyebrows look a little straighter and lower and more straight-across than arched. Men also tend to have more defined chins and more sunken-in cheeks. You have to remember that women have a layer of fat under the skin which gives them a softer look, and men don't have that, so all the shapes of the bone underneath would be a little more pronounced, which in turn will create slightly more dramatic shadows and highlights. The brow, chin, jaw, and to a lesser extent cheekbone are all a little morphologically different between the sexes.

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    Less saturation in the lower third of the face (even some subtle blue) will suggest shaved facial hair (common in many men of this stock).

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    one cheap trick is to increase the vertical space between the botom of the nose and the upper lip. Even though this is not a rule for all people, and there are many exceptions, men tend to have more space between the nose and the upper lip than women. It's a cheat really...

    I'm an old fart.

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    Definitely shrink the bottom lip, and I'd de-emphasize the curve of the upper lip too. I would widen his nose, and maybe lengthen it a little too, but definitely show the planes of the sides of his nose instead of just flowing straight downward.

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    This guy already looks cool! Heh heh. If you're going for an anime-style esque guy with long blonde hair who *doesn't* look like a girl, there's already such a guy in anime. He's famous, he's evil, and he's got an extremely cool voice! It's Shin, from Fist of the North Star!
    Not to mention Rei, whose hair isn't blonde.
    Seriously though, the art in Hokuto no Ken and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure is very useful source material for guys with long hair and girly poses who still look manly enough to beat your face in with one punch...

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    Thumbs up

    Thank you all for responses! A lot of good ideas, even I can't use them all here, they should help me in the future

    direliar @ Now I know who Solid Snake is Raoul belongs to genetically created humans, an elite class, he is foppish and perfect in everything from brows to the way he talks etc. But I'll try to make them more natural, I see they look artificial. Changing nose a bit is a must, we'll see if I can handle that. That's my second real nose, I still fight with them.

    What is 5 o'clock shadow?

    dream_sear @ He needs to be more angular. Aaaaaaaaahhh, everyone wants to change these lips Maybe I'll change them a bit, too. He looks better on your paintover, I see where I messed up cheek bones. Thank you!
    Eyes are not half elven, I hope a human can have such. He is genetically upgraded, but not the eyes shape.

    nonie @ I need to preserve the eyebrows shape since it's characteristic for him, but I'll try to make them more natural. But I totally agree about cheek bones, I forgot about the fat layer differences. That's why someone said he looks fat. Thank's to that person I noticed too smooth cheekbones and started to think what to do to fix him.

    dogfood @ I never thought of that, maybe because I usually torture elves But here I am not sure if humans of his type had to shave. He was born in a lab to be perfect and efficient, beard would be useless for his kind. I have to ask about it better informed folks in fandom. But I'll remember that when I'll try to draw a real human next time, that's a good trick.

    bloopatone @ Good idea. There was more space, but I enlarged his nose. If I enlarge it more this space will shrink, damn.

    Kecky @ I'll work out the nose more, but the lower lip must be wider. That's another of his features which make him different from others in the 'simple' anime world. Hair style, brows and lips shape. Though I'll fix the lip a bit too since almost every one thinks they are too large.

    Pity, I love them

    Paul "Otaking" @ I'm glad you like the way I drew him. But I am trying to paint him realistic, not in anime style (I've never did anything in anime style, that's another thing). Thank you for the examples, I didn't know these guys, I know only a few animes. Record of Lodoss war guys are very manly in faces - mainly the older knights (but their armors are exaggerated too much). Raoul comes from Ai no Kusabi, these guys are quite manly, too. Proportional in built, folks on your example have got exagerated bodies. AnK Blondies (and elites generally) just have got kind of 80-s yuppies style and are foppish, genetically created to be perfect. Like elves, heh. But as I see there is a lot of tricks to do to paint them manly.

    I attach original from anime to compare, I should have done it before, but wasn't sure if attaching someone's else art is allowed here. If not, I'll delete it.

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    just to be a smart ass i'd like to say that all humans (and all lifeforms) are created genetically . You mean he has been he is the result of eugenics or genetic manipulation.

    A slight indication of the nasal labial fold would make him more manly - too much and he will look older so be careful!

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    Ai no Kusabi!!!! omg! I LOVE that OVA...*nosebleeds*...

    sorry ^^'
    Well, all the blondies in there look pretty femme, especially Raoul. I think you did well making him life-like. Though ethnicity in anime confuses me @~@ I'm asuming they're all japanese, since they speak all it. The one in your drawing looks caucasian. it really up to you, I guess.
    You should demphasize the peak of his upper lip and make his eyebrows straight(maybe even curved down a little?)- arched at the ends. To be masculine, features need to be enchanced. However, his lips should be thinner. If you practive more with noses, they get easier :] even though I'm struggling with nostrils >.>

    Wonderful choice of skintones!

    'sho face
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirielle
    What is 5 o'clock shadow?
    If a man with fast-growing facial-hair shaves in the morning, then a five o'clock shadow is the faint stubble he's got in the evening, which at that point looks more like a shadow or a bit of blue to his skin.

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    bloopatone @ Yup - genetic manipulation.

    applesoveroranges @ Oh no, they speak Japanese because it's Japanese anime, but they are human beings far from us in space and time, I believe there is no clear nationality type there. Genetic modification, years of alienation - a nation of quite beautiful people in general. Elites of all ranks look Nordic to me, not Japanese. I can't recall anyone there looking clearly Japanese. They got slightly slanted eyes, anime manner I would say, but that's all. Of course it makes them more oriental and beautiful to drool over ;D
    Raoul has got brows frozen in endless frown, but I'll try to make them look more natural.

    Seedling @ Thank you for the explanation, good to know it

    No stubbles in his case though, we decided in fandom that Blondies and Amoi elites in general have no beards, no matter if out genetic modification or out of their style rules. In Tanagura Jupiter equals order.


    General male and female face differences help on Epi, check if you're interested (Epi goes off-line sometimes, so try again later if you can't get through):
    http://www.epilogue.net/cgi/phpBB2/v...ic.php?t=18823

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