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Thread: Perception of proportions

  1. #1
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    Perception of proportions

    hello

    Recently, I completed some drawings, and I showed them to the people. Everyone found something wrong in proportions, lenght of the bodyes, etc...It's interesting that I did not changed nothing, because the subject was taken from photos.

    I draw since a lot of years, and in the beginning i thought that the fault was mine. My teachers told me: "You must achieve experience, after years your anatomyes will be right". But now, I suspect this:

    It's IMPOSSIBLE to obtain the PERFECT ANATOMY.

    Am I wrong? What's your experience? What a real artist should obtain?

    bye
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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kublay
    Recently, I completed some drawings, and I showed them to the people. Everyone found something wrong in proportions, lenght of the bodyes, etc...It's interesting that I did not changed nothing, because the subject was taken from photos.
    I'd be very interested to see the drawings, alongside the photos if possible.

    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    "Work is more fun than fun."
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    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
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  4. #3
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    I dount that your drawings were the same millimeter for millimeter or in proportion of the photos, to check just use a lightboard. (I call them that, atleast)
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    @elwell

    Well here are some examples

    the first is the worst of all, I started from the original and after the suggestions of at least 6 people, I arrived to the final. Sincerely, the final pic is not human, but some people likes it...

    Perception of proportionsPerception of proportionsPerception of proportions

    errors in shoulder:

    Perception of proportionsPerception of proportions

    errors in head proportion, ear and hands:

    Perception of proportionsPerception of proportions

    etc..etc..etc...

    @drd
    I always use carbon copy. but that's not the matter. The matter is that I don't understand how the people will see the pictures.
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  6. #5
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    To me, it looks as if everything is pretty much on the ball.

    I guess some people just see differently than others.
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    all in all your work is very good. On the first one of Xena, I think the only weak area of the figure is around the neck and shoulders. It's stiff. If you added in a bit more information from the reference photo, I think it would work better. Your painting needs to show her right cheek (our left), like Xena's photo. The pit below her adams apple is higher and larger. There's a darker shadow under her chin. Her right pectoral muscle is higher, with more shading. I know you're creating a different sense of light than the Xena photo, but even so, try and bring in a little more of these areas from the photo.

    Somehow all the robes and necklaces are obscuring the parts of her neck that would make her seem more natural if we could see them. You may want to consider rearranging this costume so we can see enough of her shoulder anatomy to unflatten it.

    In the third painting, the ear is too small. That's all I could see that's wrong with it.

    It's still an excellent illustration.
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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kublay
    I always use carbon copy. but that's not the matter. The matter is that I don't understand how the people will see the pictures.
    Re: xena inspired pic; you rotated the torso of your painted figure to face more the viewer, whereas xena's is pointed about 45 degress to her left. Compare breasts. You kept the left shoulder and arm the same as in the ref but did not adjust it to the torso's angle so you get distortion.

    Your painting with the broad face-compressed skull and short neck makes your version with the broad shoulders, uh...not exactly heroic or attractive.

    2nd set; shoulders are throwing people off because you have shrunken heads; Danger of using badly cropped pics is you end up with a badly cropped painting. Seems like you got the smaller heads 'cuz you were trying to force fit the heads beneath the top edge.

    Same problem with the third. Just compare your left ear with the one in the ref. You force the proportions to fit the frame and you'll end up with distortion.

    ----------
    Suggestions to improve proportions and anatomy in general:

    - take life drawing classes
    - if you're going to improvise from a photo ref, make sure the rest of the body is posed consistent with the adjustment
    - post works in progress in forums like ca for some objective crits and feedback before going for the finish
    - you may want to analyze the anatomy of your refs before copying it
    - make your painting canvas size bigger than your ref, so you can avoid your tendency to follow a picture's borders closely
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  9. #8
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    The only real thing wrong with your images is that you are copying someone else's art. Bla.
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.
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  10. #9
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    What you are missing are the subtleties of the anatomy. For one example, in the dead lady's nose, there in the photo is a shift in the curve along the bridge of the nose. You did not record that. Instead, you are generalizing the very subtleties that make anatomical shapes more convincing. Everyone makes this mistake. I still do it! The trick is to remember the mistake and try to see the intricacy of the life before you, and not just a figure. Examining each part individually is a good start, while paying attention to the overall flow of the piece.

    Photographic reference is no guarantee of accuracy. Only repeated training of the eye to note tiny details in value, shape, angle and hue will lead to your goal.

    Your paintings are also lacking in contrast. Light falls in spots on your figures where shadows fall in the photo. This makes muscles look fake. You must develop an eye for value. Maybe you can try a grisaille piece for practice. Hmm, you might also state your gamut before beginning this piece. I know I am supposed to do this with every piece but I usually skip it. If I am having trouble, I do use this.

    A great book for you to pick up at the library would be Harley Brown's Eternal Truths For Every Artist. He addresses many of the issues you are having with these paintings, especially in his section on mistakes beginners make in rendering portraits.


    It is possible to obtain near perfect anatomy. Bouguereau is a good example, as is Michelangelo and many other dead masters.

    The best work for anatomy is drawing from a model. Photos will not give you the sense of three dimensions (or even four!) that the human eye relays from an actual human being in front of you.

    Best of luck to you.
    ---- -
    sehertu mannu narāṭu ina pānāt šagapīru ningishzidda
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  11. #10
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    @drd

    This is why I opened the thread, to discuss about the perception of the proportions.

    @ArtEdGradStudent
    Well, so the point is: are the pictures excellent or are they bad. Because I don't understand how a pic can be both at the same time.

    @FlipMcgee
    In the third picture people did not say nothing to me. I did an experiment. I said that the ear (and others parts) are wrong and you agreed... This is real interesting, isn' it? Please, don't be upset for this, I'm stupid.

    @Seedling
    Your comment has not respect for my work.


    @LadyHydralis
    [you answered while i was writing, I edited the thread]
    you said interesting things, i'll buy that book.

    P.s. Michelangelo did not obtained perfections, his anatomy are invented, in most cases.

    -------------------

    Thank you all for you comments, it demonstrates that everyone has a different point of view and that someone can also be influenced...
    But in the end, this is not a discussion about one or three pictures (the final work section is adapt for this), it's a discussion about the perfection and perception.
    I think I did not explained myself. If someone else would contribuite to discussion, i think we should fix the attention to something different. I would ask question:

    Did you every do a perfect picture without imperfections? Is it possible to make a perfect picture?

    How errors contribuite to make a picture bad or good anyway?
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  12. #11
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    LadyHydralisk's post was bang on.
    All I've got to say, is that when you say "Its impossible to obtain the perfect anatomy", you're putting up your own barrier that WILL hold you back.
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  13. #12
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    We are artists, not doctors. So is your audience. (except a few doctors of course). So don't go for the perfect anatomy, go for the perfect impression of shape and shadow. The perfect harmony between those two in your vision will give a better result and will give it something original instead of going for uber anatomy.

    Remember, anatomy is a basic understanding, you then try to build further upon what you know of it unless you are trying to become an anatomy book designer.
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  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kublay
    @Seedling
    Your comment has not respect for my work.
    True. Because I do have respect for you as a budding artist, I cannot also have respect for your chosen method of work.
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.
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