Sketchbook: AztcFireflower's Figures 'n' Stuff - Page 22
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  1. #631
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    Incredible work here...subscribed and looking forward to perusing the rest of this thread.

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  3. #632
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    Hi Az just dropping by to say Hi

    Choose to live a life that matters.

    * My sketch book : http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=117461

    **My finished work : http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...38#post1632938
    O.K now let`s ROCK
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  5. #633
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    Just want to drop by and thank you for all those drawings in here. There is so much knowledge within these and studying them makes me feel I learn something

    Big fan

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  7. #634
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    I think I've got a level up from just staring at those. Thanks a lot for sharing so much

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  9. #635
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    Mydrako Thanks. I am in that very struggle of adapting 2 approaches into one, I know exactly what your mean. I will try hard to maintain the flow and grace of the model in my drawings.
    Chupacabra Thanks! Mr too! 1st day of K.C. class I was shooting blanks. I lost my process for a moment. Working to keep both approaches interchangeable. Try charcoal pencils. For me much more control with a sharp point for detail and a long lead for tonal "brushwork".
    luness Thank you. Your absolutely right. So much incredible talent here. Love your style. When I finish a piece in b/w I use mech pencils. Am going to explore mech pencils some more as you do.
    DaveP I'm definitely one of those people that has to be constantly on it ot I lose it. Thanks for dropping by.
    Hey Mike, Thanks! Big fan of yours .
    Feil Magnus I must remember how details can draw the eye, for next time. Thanks.
    sevarange Thanks for visiting. Should leave a sig with a link to your SB. Easier to find you.
    Verehin Thanks!
    Hysoka Why thank you!
    Fast Art Thank you. I'm trying.
    meduza Hey, your stuff looks good in your SB. You'd love Glen Orbik's work. He's done a few SH covers. Check him out, if you haven't already. Thanks for dropping by.
    vvv Thank you.
    Sir Cam Thanks. Appreciate it. I try.
    Hey,DanielC Dynamism; gesture and clean rythyms, I get it then I lose it. frustrating, but engrossing to try for this goal. Thanks for visiting.
    Bushido Very kind of you to say. Thanks for checking in.
    GRMC
    lennon Hey, crit away. Yep, the head is rather large on a few and shrink on others. As studies, doesn't bother me too much, anymore. Am after different things in each session. I would love it if it all came together in one drawing, but, as skills are still honing, some things will suffer as I apply a new concept or approach. It happens to all of us.
    Just means never stop practicing.
    Thanks for stopping in.
    CTseng Hey Chris! You guys are sweet, and thank you.
    Love the stuff appearing in your SB. I liked your work in Kevin's character class alot. Your enviros are IMPRESSIVE color blobs. Thanks for visiting.
    staticpen Thank you. Appreciate the comments.
    My 57 Thank you. It's just ton's of practice. Dedication will get you there.
    rambolin Thanks!
    CastorFiber Thank you for your kind thoughts.
    MLE Thank you. Yes. Slowly gaining on that. You're right, tho, will delve into clothing as I learn to design forms, as well.
    dTb Thank you. When I don't have cash or time, I use photos and they work well for anatomy and proportion studies. Try: Character Designs - http://www.characterdesigns.com/
    Look up photosets.
    Courtyard Thank you, much appreciated.
    Amir HI! Thanks for the fly by.
    Faust Thank you for coming by and commenting. I'll probably never stop taking somebodies class somewhere. Always learning.
    griffinfly Your are great to say so, much appreciated. Hope the new stuff will interest.

    Been awhile. Am studying with my 2 favorite teachers.
    Glen Orbik, who is my 1st drawing teacher, and Kevin Chen who is helping me solidify my understanding and sense of structure. Both classes are kicking. But ALOT of reshuffling ideas in my brain. My stuff is suffereng as I STILL do not have a solid approach. I thinks it's because I am purposely exposing myself to all the drawing approaches available to me here in L.A. Structure and elegance is my ultimate design combination. Strength and fluid life. Once I finally digest it all, then I'll narrow down on a process.
    Not much good stuff will be coming out of me for awhile. When I think my work is decent I'll post it.


    1st is 2-3 minutes. Gesture is to explore movement and flow. So, time to experiment...............yeeaah, gesture is priority, but still not wanting to lose structure, afraid to let it go. Struggle.
    Then a few longer poses trying out gestural lay-in and structural lay-in.
    And for the woman; thinking of abstract shapes.
    My stuff doesn't have what it needs, as I still need to build a mental library of composition and balance.
    Finally a very few studies out of Glen's class. Portrait has Glen's expert and fresh flourishes in darker (confident) detail pencil strokes. Sigh, struggle to get it...........

    This sketchbook is going to hibernate for awhile. Be back when I reach that next level........
    Thanks everyone for checking my SB out.


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    Last edited by AztcFireFlower; June 13th, 2009 at 10:03 PM.
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  11. #636
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    Amazing stuff!!.... I like that fourth drawing the most, especially the back view one. The solidarity and structure is all there !!... It will be great if u can inform us of some of the stuff glenn or kevin talks abt, on how they change the way u draw, or affect how u see things...

    -JS Neo

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  12. #637
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    Mydrako, thanks for dropping in again. Someone asked me a similar question on another board, so I am going to start an attempt to describe my progress and impressions of my classes here. Thanks for asking.


    Among the many goals, one of the important ones, is realism in my work. And in order to do that, I've spent time honing in on construction and learning surface anatomy. Acquiring a basic lay-in understanding of spacing and placing a figure. How to deal with foreshortening, etc. Well, I've spent alot of time on the skill of capturing the model's likeness using these schematics. I've gotten pretty good at it. But, after many years of that, then what, I'm a human Xerox.

    I found that what draws me to an artist is that persons view and sensibilities with the instrument of description, oils, watercolor, pencils. So, staying with the media of charcoal pencils in my case, I see there has to be something unique I bring to the depiction.
    I've realized it's starts with design.
    First, acquiring (and understanding how to use) a set of design elements; tools, and filling my mental library with interesting use of these design elements taken from artists I admire (and boy do I got alot!). Designs that appeal to me or have impressed me in an emotional or graphic way, I must take and stuff in my mental art box for later use. Have a long way to go B4 I have an intuitive grab bag. But, what else do I have but time as I grow older?

    My struggle is seeing the design possibilities in my own initial work. And without experience, I can't figure out what to do. Frustrating. Fortunately, both my teachers have pointed us students to the source - Master Copies!
    Acquire someone else's skllls in design. And create a mental library.

    I'm ready for it. Actually painless, but, the important thing is to ask yourself questions and analyze the answers in a particular Master Work.
    As my physical trainer has said to me, more than once, do every movement with a purpose. Don't just fly through the motions with momentum, control the movement with awareness.
    Because of these exercises, I am, slowly but surely, acquiring much needed discipline, as well. The more discipline, the faster I'll get better at this. I hope.

    This path applies to whatever approach you learn. All the "rules" of constructing and composing a piece remain pretty much the same. Only recently have I become ready to absorb and understand these themes in a deeper way. A small progress I am happy to note.

    There are 2 qualities I want my figures to show: Solid construction and beautiful design. What I'm trying to resolve is this; Construction although well done can make for stiff figures. Design without construction leaves figures with no weight, wimpy. There is also graphic 2D design vs volume and my need to retain both in my work. That is a huge resolution of approaches for me, knowing when or how to use those elements together.

    Kevin Chen teaches strong strong construction that will leave no doubt in your mind or the viewer's mind, what's going on.
    Glen Orbik teaches a method that leans heavier on designing the figure, or anything for that matter, right from the start. Not that it throws construction out the window, but, allows you to use that knowledge, if you have it, to create more design options for yourself. Much is based on rhythms and gesture in your lay-ins to give life to your figures.
    Both teachers methods do cross many times in approach, still, it's for me at the end of all this to grab what helps me the best to reach my aesthetic goal from each of my mentors: Beautiful design with solid figure knowledge.
    After I finish Kevin's class, I will stay with Glen O's classes, for guidance, as I learn design & pencil mark calligraphy, be that a year or 2. But Kevin's construction won't leave me. That's part of my kit, now.
    I must add that Kevin also lectures on composition and design. Extremely knowledgeable and his concept work is awesome.
    Glen, he has this amazing sense of design in his portrait sketches that sometimes takes my breath away. There is poetry and a kind of sensuality of line that goes beyond just skill to add life to his drawings & sketches. This degree of skill in design and coordinated flow of movement out of ones arm and hand......I want that........very much.
    May I reach this goal & may I explain and pass it on to my students, someday.

    Hope this dialectic (learned a new word!) hasn't made anyone's eye's bleed. I appreciate the questions and wanted to also try and resolve the conflict of approaches to myself.

    Sorry no images worthy of posting, today.

    Last edited by AztcFireFlower; June 23rd, 2009 at 01:10 AM.
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  14. #638
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    great to have a teacher.. and what a body of work..
    im never that lucky though..
    but never sad .. this is my university..everybody's a teacher..
    i sometimes dream sitting in a fine art class.. ( from the bottom of my heart)..
    you know how it is when you get to smell those fresh prospectus of design colleges..
    and then a sigh when distance and money both bother...

    congrats..keep doing the thing..

    feel free to barge into my sketchbook as well!!

    There is but one short cut to success...apparently its called Hardwork.


    The Great Indian Mythology Character Design Trick - ( please do leave your comments on this sketchbook) http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=142727
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  17. #641
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    I read that big wall of text. I think you already have solid construction and beautiful design. I know you are pretty hardcore on figure drawing, each post just keeps getting better and better.

    Make a sketchbook happy, feed it a tip to improve!

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=85628
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  18. #642
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    howdy.

    I understand the conflict and I think you're headed in the right direction. We may never resolve conflicting approaches but what's important is establishing a relationship between the two perspectives. Just like two sides of a coin will never see face to face but experiencing both sides ultimately helps you form a relationship between the two and as such an understanding of the coin as whole.

    I hope I'm not sounding insane

    Anyway, great stuff and I hope you reach that next level soon. Struggle on!

    And abstract larches in the neutral light

    My Sketchbook
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  19. #643
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    you are agreat artist & i enjoy your drawings too much

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  20. #644
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    Talking Your Work Is Beautiful

    AztcFireFlower

    Your drawings are utterly beautiful. Don't stop drawing. Thanks for sharing.

    Check my gallery if you like

    http://www.conceptart.org/index.php?...la&cat=updated


    Yours Sincerely,

    Saltola

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  21. #645
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    Imaginary Thank you. I most certainly will try.
    animosapien Thanks the visit. I do understand the frustration when you know what you need, but can't get. It makes for ambitious creativity in getting in that experience, tho. Often when I've no money, I go back to basics and read my refs & notes and just do a bunch of master copies, until I can afford one little class. One way or another, it will happen.
    I love your style and design sense. Hope to absorb and learn from your thread.
    Spade Thank you!
    Pigeonkill I appreciate your comment very much. It comes down to what you want to do with the skills. Time for me to plug in my imagination and conceptualize. This is a very big step for me. It's a whole new skill set to think and solve creative problems and add the unique spin of individuality.
    So, thank you, your words are encouraging.
    JeanShade Not insane at all! Great perspective. Thank you for that. I'm finding that I can switch from one to the other approach a lot easier. In this latest post, I find I am using more shape design, silhouette for construction. It's all experimentation. At this point, I am now resolving what I like to use and my tastes for design. It's a good phase in my art life.
    artist_essam Thank you!
    Saltola Thank you!

    Will reply to individual threads soon.


    small addition from uninstructed workshop.

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  23. #646
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    I'm so glad seeing you update again! Your work is beyond inspiring, I could look at those for ages. Absolutely stunning, your grasp of the human anatomy is one of the most solid I've seen here so far. Thanks for sharing your work!

    sketchbook / sketchblog / deviantart / facebook / twitter / e-mail

    "assiduus usus uni rei deditus et ingenium et artem saepe vincit" - cicero
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    Don't be too hard on yourself. Your progress is stunning and your headed towards greatness in no time. For ex. it is unbelievable how far you have come in your figure drawing since your march 20th post. This progress can be seen especially in the faces you draw nowadays. I really hope you're having fun when you draw not just stressing about how good you have to be to become... well something.... I don't know. Us little people will soon not recognize the difference between your work and the "master" work.

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    Your work is so good, I've learned a lot just by admiring it. Can I ask how long you've been studying to achieve this level of skill?

    "Argue for your limitations and sure enough, they're yours." -Richard Bach

    Sketchbook
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  26. #649
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    strong, strong figure work. damn I wish I could do that. Funny thing is, I know a lot theoretically and always try to expand my knowledge of the figure, but I go completely dumb when sitting in front of the nude :/ have to sort that one out hehe

    keep up the good work

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  27. #650
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    Awesome stuff man! love the lines

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  28. #651
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    Been a while since i check out ur sb.. Lovely stuff as usual. Need more of ur beautiful drawing though I am curious. Are u working currently, teaching life drawing somewhere? Cos u seems to be constantly in financial instability. I personally feel that if u are not teaching somwhere, u should ! It is a waste if u cant draw due to lack of financial support.

    Recently i started working through Jack Faragasso book on figure drawing. Basically it is reilly method of figure construction as u probably know. His book is very detailed on the method of construction using the rhythm lines. But i feel something is missing from his description. I am not getting how to really use those lines to be frank.

    Are the lines just guides during the lay-in process? How does this lines fit in the ultimate goal of producing a finished drawing/painting? Reilly style seems to be on the surface a rather 2d method but on the other hand, we can tell how his method also produce beautiful and well rendered figures (like those done by fred fixler and glen orbik). Faragasso's book say alot about planes of the body which show a rather confusing array of lines running across the body. Is that how glen orbik teaches how to render the form after the layin stage?

    My goal is to find a consistent process of figure construction, one that can allow me to draw from imagination basically as if there is a model in front of me. Maybe u have some insight regarding my questions as it seems ur goal is similar to mine

    Seems like i am always bombarding u with long-winded questions. Sorry abt that...

    Last edited by JS Neo; July 18th, 2009 at 11:29 AM.
    -JS Neo

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    "The only time I feel alive is when I'm painting." Van Gogh
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  30. #652
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    Gosh your shadow studies are great it reminds me of what i should study more often!

    Hey what pencils do you use, i have loads of em, but aparently can only find myself confortable with a mechanical pencil and some sketching watersoluble derwent pencils because they provide me a very soft outcome when shadowing, if i use the graphic pencils pft they come out too sharp...

    Anyway i was just curious.

    Subscribed to your SB

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  31. #653
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    Heya.

    Good times huh Well, it shows in your drawings. Love these new ones!

    And abstract larches in the neutral light

    My Sketchbook
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  32. #654
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    AsaB Thank you. Very much appreciate you comment. Made me think abit....I gotta confess something to ya.......
    Don't know anatomy all that well...muscle insertions, names, etc.
    What I do use is simple shapes to get the figure down.
    A quick analyzes of the silhouette to find the simplest shape to describe the whole mass. The lay-in is the most graphic and most essential to get as close to what you see. Don't need extensive anatomy in the beginning, BUT, in the finish it helps to give you options of design.
    AND you edit what you need to create the picture you want, not necessarily to exactly describe what the model is doing.
    Placeboast Thank you. Yeah, I can see the different influences of my teachers. I enjoy absorbing all of it. I look back and can see phases of drawings depending what I was emphasizing. Kinda neet. You know, I am having fun. Especially when something clicks and you know you have made yet another concept your own, all this thanks to my awesome teachers.
    SirCam Thank you. On and off, I guess like, at least 10-15 years. But there have been many interruptions throughout. I know folks who have achieved and surpassed my knowledge & skill in 3-4 years. I, only, now have been able to dedicate a good 6 consistent years to developing my skills. I remember Sheldon. He was a character mentor at WB for my intern group. Small world.
    Darkside Concepts and methods are something my head is full of, but, sometimes some of it really isn't sunk in until a mentor explains it to me in a way that clicks.
    I've had this happen several times. It also could be that some ideas are not ready to be explored because there may be some other experiences yet to go thru.
    For the most part, it's all a mental thing. It's a specific process and purpose when I sit down to draw from life. Don't see the model as muscles. It helps if you try and see as shapes and sillhouette. Even think of it as a page or photo.....all flat in the beginning. Matter of training your eye to see a certain way by doing over and over again.
    Slobosaurus Thank you!
    Mydrako Thank you. I've been fortunate to have been offered a modest teaching opportunity here in West Los Angeles. Helping to sustain my small habit for local drawing workshops.
    I know of the Faragasso book, and, in fact, that is one criticism I've heard as to it's presentation, kinda confusing.
    To answer your questions:
    The lines are light lay-in guidelines. You do want to erase them later in a finished drawing. However, these lines are establishing the gesture and action of your figure. Easier to do so as with graphic line and shape design. If you look at atalier tradional drawings from the 19th cen. the approach is not much different. Just look at Charles Bargue drawings.
    Big shapes help to see the figure in a cleaner more efficient way.
    The planes are a construction aspect. Faragasso may have diagrams on rythyms that are picked up throughtout the body or head as design jumping off points. Glen talks about design all the time. The rythmical diagrams are to help you find the relationships of flow, but you don't need to be a slave to it. If you haven't a clue, like when I started, then these are important to know & more importantly understand what the lines are: rythmical relationships. What Glen does say is to study favorite artists/illustrators and copy and try to understand how they designed the planes. Basically just do analytical master copies.
    Figure invention has a path through mannekin studies over photos. A book called The Figure by Walt Reed is the best for this. The mannekin gives you a way of thinking of the body as simple forms to turn in space. I recommend a look thru this book.
    Ana Diella Thank you.
    I use charcoal pencils sharpened to a long point. Point for fine detail and long side for shadow values.
    As far as I can get with a mech pencil is crosshatching for value, which can look pretty cool, but with charc pencil can get those sweeps of value down faster.
    JeanShade Thanks for hanging out.

    Some workshop stuff....

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    Last edited by AztcFireFlower; July 22nd, 2009 at 02:57 AM.
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  34. #655
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    A portrait in Glen's class.
    There is, of course, some of Glen's finesse on this work. Amazing how he can zero in on just what it needs; variation in line and value strokes. Organized randomness in shapes!
    A couple of studies in Kevin's class.

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  35. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to AztcFireFlower For This Useful Post:


  36. #656
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    Hey i just went through your sb and spefically that wall of text right above about acquiring rhythm, design and structure.

    and I think it's really amazing! It had provided lots of information for me and i feel like these are what I have to look out for especially during those master studies! (after reading, i feel that i'm just mindlessly copying the master's art piece)

    I think you have just shown me a level higher into figure drawing or even drawing itself. (or at least i think so) Thank you so much! I'm definetely following this to learn more from you. Thx again!!

    and i'll like to thank Mydrako for posting the qns too.

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  37. #657
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    I didn't draw from life for 3 years so when i look your drawings, i hope i'll can draw again from next october...

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  38. #658
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    Mischeviouslittleelf is offline Promoted himself from Auxillery Pencil Infaantrist to Tablet Gunner Level 13 Gladiator: Retiarius
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    Great life drawings on the last page here, really digging into the core shadows there and all that good stuff, really good job!

    .E

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  39. #659
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    you are my hero =) and i forgot too giv my sb and the updeyts is insain! haha


    my sb :http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...=149972&page=3

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  40. #660
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    Nice work!!! I am missing Glen's classes and bummed about it - hope to be back in - - wait for it : May of 2010.. you are doing such great stuff!!!! keep it up eh ? ( I know you will!).. Say Hay to Mark for me .. he has my flash drive !!! ( he'll have to hang onto it for a bit!)

    best, Kevin

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