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  1. #1
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    Question What is your motivation? Explain yourself...

    topic this time :: What is the easiest/hardest way to express LOVE in a picture in your opinion?

    last topic :: What art is worthy of time and effort to study & be inspired by? why? iyo

    I am just going to see if these things can follow one another into the abyss and back. So I have changed the title of the thread, first time doing something like this. I want to see what happens.

    original tread title was "going beyond the concept of art and non-art"

    This thread is for the discussion of art, non-art and when to sign your art work.

    Is there a time when your work is finished or are they all works in progress?

    Do you consider the work finished when you sign it?

    Why do you consider the work art?

    Do you consider the things in your life, art, meaning they are theater props on the stage of life?

    (this has most likely been discussed here in the Art discussion forum and I am just missing the thread. If so would you direct me there for me to leave a possible comment or two?)

    Last edited by xoet; November 23rd, 2006 at 12:00 AM. Reason: change the title of the thread
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    Finishing art is like approaching lightspeed, the closer you get, the more energy you need to make a significant difference. Also, it's subjective what's finished and not. There are several different states of finished perfection, an infinite amount some might argue. Who's to tell what's right and wrong? Finished is probably something that is consistantly detailed whilst also looking fairly good to the majority of people. Above that threshold there's some varience in quality ranging from 'hey that's kinda cool' up to masterpiece, but I believe masterpieces are incidental (although more likely to occur the more skilled the artist is).

    A concept merely needs to deliver the points, and look decent, imo.

    Jamen jag tror att han skäms, och har gömt sig. Vårt universum det är en av dom otaliga spermasatser som Herren i sin självhärliga ensamhet har runkat fram för å besudla intet.
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    Art is such an opinion based interest its silly. Who's to say its finished? Who has the right to say something is bad? why do you even need anatomy training when you feel like your satisfied with that you've produced.

    Imo finished is when youve gotten so far that you feel like you either SHOULD stop or when you feel that your point or your story is established. And imo you cant really tell a story with stickdeath figures.

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    It's finished when it evokes something (strong?) in the viewer, whether that be emotional, storytelling or more sub-conscious than either. This could perhaps also be my definition of art.

    Finished when you sign it? If anything you sign it once you are finished or you have decided to finish it, it's just a symbol.

    "Do you consider the things in your life, art, meaning they are theater props on the stage of life?"
    No, I consider them to be life To consider them as objects in which we are the play seems a bit centristic no?

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    "A piece of art is finished when it'd be inapropriate and pointless to add even a single dot to it"-forgotwhosaidthat

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    Smile life is art and art is life

    Quote Originally Posted by Idiot Apathy
    No, I consider them to be life To consider them as objects in which we are the play seems a bit centristic no?
    imo life is art and art is life. I apply my life and create it in such a way that it is art and or artistic as such that this non-rhyming poem is an artistic response to the responses to this thread. I believe in art much more than I believe in anything else but I try not to use my art to justify my life being the artist that is with in my life of art. Mmm not sure if I understood that but this statement may make sense someday to me somehow if I still remember it when it does...

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    the longer i am an artist, the more i understand that it is simply the term i use for the way i live. i never liked the term. i am someone who cares about questioning, really care. and my art is from this, and defines this and also creates this to an end. the notion of assigning recognition, or forced recognition to a work by way of signing, has always made me very anti-name display. although i have played with the conept of signing, using other names, typically names associated with tool manufacturer's that i use in making my art. however, my art is 100% self serving as is yours, so how much more arbitrary can signing something with which was made in such a manner, obviously, be?
    same goes for being done or not. i mean even the idea conveys awareness in your work to other "work". you know? think; how would I judge my work if i had never seen another peice of art before in my life, could you tell when it was done?, or would that question even be able to exist? most likely not.

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    About if the piece is finished or not, that depends on you. If you are doing it you decide when it is finished or not. Even if later you decide to work some more on it.
    About signing, I usually only sign when it is finished, but most of the time I forget to do that, so the last time I went to frame some stuff I had to buy a marker in the store to sign it, I do not pay much attention to it.

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    My mother was a kindergarten teacher for a while. She always put her students art on the walls. and hers students art was always better thanthe other teachers...when asked why she said "I know when to take it away from them"

    One is no always the best judge of when ones art is finished. and there are a lot of pieces that serve as tools for learning, and are finished when you have learned what you were trying to learn from them. My husband is a fine art Print maker, who goes on revising his work even in the process of printing an edition.

    so "done" is a matter of self definition. I usually get bored of it and proclaim its done. not that it couldn't be made better. not that I couldn't improve it still. Just that I am bored of it.

    and My working definition of "art" is that which communicates from one human to another.

    and yes some art is better than others and the field of Art is HUGE!
    chaos

    To see the world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wildflower, hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.

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    Red face childlike as childishly possible

    Quote Originally Posted by chaosrocks
    My mother was a kindergarten teacher for a while. She always put her students art on the walls. and hers students art was always better thanthe other teachers...when asked why she said "I know when to take it away from them"
    If I give a beginning and an end to a work of art then it is almost alive?
    as long as some where between it spawns(inspires) new works of art?
    but is that important as well?

    The process of evolving is difficult but someone has to do it...

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    it has all been done one way or another

    Even the things I think are new are not and I knew that before I started. Inventing the new things from the old for me is the "key." imo It is to mix opposites like new and old. Being my last name is almost new old but actually new-b-old I think I can mix the new and the old but of course that is old as well.

    Still I heard it said that to copy is bad, to mimic is bad, and that if you choose to do these things then please put some personal touch to the "idea/art/subject/concept" that you are imitating. That is the good part that is sometimes difficult for me. So I end up with slightly altered things that I have hear here and there but not always different from the source and much as I would like them to be.

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    "Why do you consider the work art?"
    Art is a word used to describe pictures, so I call it art.

    "Do you consider the things in your life, art, meaning they are theater props on the stage of life?"
    No. All analogies of life are meaningless. "The game of life", "The stage of life", they're all meaningless.

    If art is supposed to communicate then it must have elements of old and new. One of the ideas of communication theory or is it information theory?(I'm not sure which of those words is the right one) is that, for there to be communication there must be a mix of expected and unexpected. If a signal is totally expected then it communicates nothing, because we already know what it'll say, and if it's totally unexpected and original again it won't communicate anything since we won't understand it.
    Art is form and content. Form meaning the way the information is communicated, and content meaning what is communicated. So the 4 basic possibilities of mixing expected and unexpected are:
    1. conventional form + conventional content
    2. unconventional form + conventional content
    3. conventional form + unconventional content
    4. unconventional form + unconventional content

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    Art is simply what makes us better than cockroches.

    The visual arts, music, dance, literature, and all the variations like movies and theatre, are simply reasons to get up in the morning and look for a rose among the wreckage in the alley. Everyone searches for that rose. What is forgotten is that EVERYONE/ANYONE can plant it there in the first place, but get side-tracked by more mundane things like eating and fixing the roof. Some few inspired individuals subconsciously realize this is happening and appoint themselves the "flower planters" as their donation to the universal human condition.

    You can't eat art. You can't wear music. You can't save a man's life by smacking a pie into a clown's face on stage. What you CAN do is to make them want to get up in the morning and fight to survive what comes that day.

    I feel pretty, so I sing while I dig ditches.

    I feel lost and small, so I sit on a carved wooden bench and let the sun dance in the colored windows that soar to the shadowed arches of the ceiling.

    I don't know if I can go on, so I look at the pictures of the white whale and read of man's epic quests.

    I don't know if doing the dishes in the back of the restaurant is worth it till I see my daughter dance like a fairy in the garden.

    Rags become the costumes of kings. A wall becomes a playground for shadows that nip and bite at each other. A single can of paint makes my box MY PURPLE HOME, not your's.

    This is what "artists" do. It's what we do. Without us, the world would still get up in the morning and go to work...but it would be a very gray existence. A world for cockroaches.

    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary
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    Wisdom oh wisdom, how beautiful you are.
    Thank you Illaekae! those words were a delicacy to my soul.

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    Question ok so I fit into the number four definition of art

    4. unconventional form + unconventional content
    OK have we come far enough that we can make a #4 and survive the critiques? Mixing opposites of light and dark to form a new reality that exists beyond the beatnik and the hippy, beyond the anal enforcement of the rules, and laws of nature/life/old/new -realities we know so well. Nothing is new that is not already old but why do I think the image of the dirt where the flower grows is more interesting then the flower itself? (I have to answer that question myself but what is your answer) Or my pet roaches that live in my walls and nooks and crannies making there home my home allowing me to be here in their world. When we mix the romantic with the classic to get a modernist but from there..where things change with out reason and with reason and neither and both there is...(tbc)

    Last edited by xoet; November 17th, 2006 at 05:58 PM. Reason: spelt definition -difinition
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    I am not you. I may hold that the flower and the dirt are equally worthy of my interest, which is not conclusive proof that someone else will think the same. The acceptance of whatever ideal is important to you can only be recognized by you...not me...not the mailman.

    I am not a cockroach. I can not think like a cockroach. I cannot see as a cockroach. For me to present an effort for their approval would be so obscenely inappropriate as to be blasphemous to Cockroaches everywhere.

    I AM a human being. I can help my fellow human beings to see what is/was/will be with the faint hope that I am similar enough to them for them to ask me why I DO. To accept my effort. To be in a position to ignore me if they so choose. That's all I can hope for. It beats carrying a large neon sign and kicking people in the nuts until they agree with you.

    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary
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    Ilaekae...I love you....
    chaos

    runs out to plant more roses......

    Last edited by chaosrocks; November 17th, 2006 at 07:04 PM.
    To see the world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wildflower, hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.

    Sketch book

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...ight=chaos%27s
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    I love you, too, my little costumed imp...

    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary
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    am I hallucinating or is the grammar in this thread's title getting worse and worse?

    chaos

    To see the world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wildflower, hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.

    Sketch book

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...ight=chaos%27s
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    the Love thread: I love it.

    so the new thread title is thus: starting the discussion is of course what aspect is need to be expressed film is easy to do but a still ?? And the reasons for expressing the love of a society for itself?Maybe we can end the hate?

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    Nothing is purely conventional or purely unconventional. Everything we do has a touch of ourself in it which can't be completely derivative, and it's not possible to come up with something completely new.
    "So I end up with slightly altered things that I have hear here and there but not always different from the source and much as I would like them to be."

    Originality isn't so important to me, being good is more important. For example: if I go to a restaurant and order a cheeseburger I expect certain ingredients, beef of course, and the vegetables and stuff. I woudn't be happy if the chef wanted to surprise me with his creativity and put shrimp and cotija cheese or something in the hamburger.

    What is worthy of time and effort...?
    Nothing. Such a question can't be answered with reason, we can only feel inspired or want to do something, it's never our decision. "worth" and "inspiration" are feelings specific to individuals, they are not inherent qualities of things.

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    "It's use is it's meaning."
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    Quote Originally Posted by xoet
    so the new thread title is thus: starting the discussion is of course what aspect is need to be expressed film is easy to do but a still ?? And the reasons for expressing the love of a society for itself?Maybe we can end the hate?
    I can't understand this title, you've broken too many grammatical rules. Language is the use of conventional signs for the purpose of communication. If you want people to understand you, you have to adhere to such conventions.

    Sketchbook

    "Beliefs are rules for action"
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  24. #23
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    semantics and antics thereby and of information game theories.

    ok back to the "drawing board" when symbols are meaning less and have such different Meanings to each individual it becomes difficult to explain a generalized Intangible concept that is different from different points of view. even the act is a parallel dichotomy. between to different points of view where the difference is in alignment with yet opposed to the other meaning male vs female, right vs wrong truth vs will. these things become tangible as they increase in symbolic emphasis

    We have only been world net artists since the www in 95 so really new art is right here right now... (I remember those days of coding html back in the late 90's)

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  25. #24
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    i love the fact that you carry Occam's razor in your user title...now, THERE'S an statement of "parallel dichotomy"!

    In the future, everyone will have 15 minutes of privacy.

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  26. #25
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    xoet, I used to date a Philosophy Major back in the sixties that owned the complete Oxford unabridged dictionary. I put Exlax in her soy milk shakes and started dating a Gypsy psycho who tried to kill me once a month with a broken beer bottle. It was a definite improvement...

    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary
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  27. #26
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    lkjasdkhjsf sf jksjs klasdjlkjsdf jklsafkljsdf kljsd lkjsdaf

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    "Beliefs are rules for action"
    "Knowledge is proven in action."
    "It's use is it's meaning."
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    You don't put meaning into your work, such as love.

    Intangible things are impossible to express in words, so I doubt talking about how they are expressed in pictures will give us anything useful to work with.

    The idea is to see other great illustrations and be inspired to illustrate at a great level, then to master the technical aspects of illustration so you can do whatever you want, but you still will never have total control over the intangible meaning people derive from the work itself.

    Strange coincidence that every man whose skull has been opened had a brain.
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    I keep losing this thread....... because of the title changes...wanna change the subject?
    neeew thread.... and pass the Glenlivet

    chaos

    To see the world in a grain of sand, and a heaven in a wildflower, hold infinity in the palm of your hand, and eternity in an hour.

    Sketch book

    http://conceptart.org/forums/showthr...ight=chaos%27s
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    Quote Originally Posted by armando
    lkjasdkhjsf sf jksjs klasdjlkjsdf jklsafkljsdf kljsd lkjsdaf
    quoted for emphasis

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    Tristan Elwell
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    "Work is more fun than fun."
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