Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 33
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wiesbaden, Germany
    Posts
    2,169
    Thanks
    613
    Thanked 551 Times in 183 Posts

    Rant: Client's taste...

    Show a client four stockphotos and he'll choose the worst. Show him only the best one and he'll be absolutely fine and congratulate you for the nice find. Is it just me or do clients live in a parallel universe where taste is absent?


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wiesbaden, Germany
    Posts
    2,169
    Thanks
    613
    Thanked 551 Times in 183 Posts
    And again. Client sends 5 site photos for their business cards, telling me to use the best fitting one. I place the best and only usable and send it via email. Seconds later I receive a reply telling me to use the most ugly one of the five photos instead, and crop it to the most ugly building on the photo.

    Yeah!

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Wiltshire, England
    Posts
    1,134
    Thanks
    32
    Thanked 30 Times in 11 Posts
    You're not wrong mate. I'm currently designing some logos for a client who has NO clue about good design. The worst thing is was that I gave them a very generous deal on the price because the client is the sister of my fiances brother in law. The project has cost me about 3 times as much as I charged as a favour. *sigh* I've learned my lesson though...
    The sketchbook thread!

    The Art of David and Sarah Cousens: www.CoolSurface.com!
    The Cool Surface Art blog: http://CoolSurface.blogspot.com!

    Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DavidCousens

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wiesbaden, Germany
    Posts
    2,169
    Thanks
    613
    Thanked 551 Times in 183 Posts
    Sure... I mean I don't want the client to have a clue about good design. I wouldn't have a job then. But it's funny when clients tell you "Ok you're right... but do what I want, not what you think is good!". I've grown up with a computer and have recently found out that computers changed the world of graphic design and it's designers in the past years. If a client can handle a Powerpoint presentation, why should he listen to what a strange guy wearing jeans says? He can do better. But he needs someone to make a PDF so it can be printed. Alas, this is getting worse every day.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Kiama, Australia
    Posts
    577
    Thanks
    167
    Thanked 149 Times in 75 Posts
    So painfully true. I used to have a bad habit of presenting HEAPS of variations on a design. Like literally 50 variations on colour and compositions... and it didn't take me long to learn my lesson. The client got confused, kept changing their mind, and invariably chose the worse variation.

    I really think, in situations like that, it's important to stand your ground and say "No, that's the most ugly design. Trust me, you want this one instead." - take charge and make them feel confident to leave the desicions to you. I mean, that's why they're paying you to be arty, because they don't have a clue. Let them make decisions and they'll start to think they can design it themselves next!!!

    While I'm complaining about clients. I also find that when you're dealing with the stupid ones (you know the ones), it helps to submit a wip (work in progress) with an obvious error in it, like the clients logo the wrong colour, then they can suggest a change and feel like they've contributed something. Otherwise they'll ask you to change something that's good and fubar the whole design up.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wiesbaden, Germany
    Posts
    2,169
    Thanks
    613
    Thanked 551 Times in 183 Posts
    Hehe, yeah. We did stand our ground some time ago and almost lost the client. He was like "What, I pay them x to do y and then he says 'No!'? I'll show them!". He found a friend of a friend of a colleague to do the photos and when we got them, we saw where the low price of that guy was coming from. It's a shame that with the low prices nowadays, you can't argue cuz there are at least 10 studios who do the job for less.

    It's also funny to note that the big companies with xxx employees are often the most challenging ones. We had a big electronics company that we made fair panels for. The first ones where good. Of course, big companies have CIs, so it wasn't creative at all. But at least good to look at. Some time later they called again for panels. This time, they asked us not to reconstruct the Powerpoint charts. Ok, ugly, colorful charts. Looked like crap but ok. Next time, they asked us to use Arial for the text and go for a 100/100 red instead of the nice dark red we had used before. It was like "OK, we're an international company and we payed thousands of dollars for a corporate design, but forget it and do what the guys in my birdcage-sized office want!"

  8. #7
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The Dark Zone
    Posts
    638
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
    ha ha....
    ... just try being a freelance artist for comics... you inevitable get the guys with the worst scripts who can pay out the proper page rates.... For example I am working on a story about yoga masters in the future who can enlighten people through sex and can do crazy style kung fu.... And the creator wants me to do all the characters extremely angsty and serious.... Yesterday I had to paint a panel... with one character saying.... "Did you just fart, because you just blew me away....." and the scene was in the middle of a high class business dinner.... Where the girl replied... "giggle giggle he he" AND IT WAS SPOUSE TO BE SAID STRAIGHT FACED.
    Now I can understand if he wanted to make this a comedy.... But no he wants to make the issue extremely serious and action packed with yoga goodness. And he wants me to do covers with scanky half naked women... even though there isn't any sex in the actual series until the very end... so the cover really has nothing to do with the rest of the issue. Sigh... this comic actually has made me up my standerds... because now I will never get on board until I have a feel for the script first no matter what the pay... for you simply can't pay people enough if you force them to do something like that on a day to day basis. I mean common... "did you just fart......" WHY WHY WOULD YOU THINK THATS CLEVER .....EVER.
    Who exactly is this minjit you ask?
    Rorke's Sketch Book of Doomy Dooomm!
    I don't want to go mommy...>.< you can't make me!

    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”
    --Robert McCloskey quote

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    UK, Warwickshire
    Posts
    1,693
    Thanks
    22
    Thanked 154 Times in 81 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by rorke
    ha ha....
    ... just try being a freelance artist for comics... you inevitable get the guys with the worst scripts who can pay out the proper page rates.... For example I am working on a story about yoga masters in the future who can enlighten people through sex and can do crazy style kung fu.... And the creator wants me to do all the characters extremely angsty and serious.... Yesterday I had to paint a panel... with one character saying.... "Did you just fart, because you just blew me away....." and the scene was in the middle of a high class business dinner.... Where the girl replied... "giggle giggle he he" AND IT WAS SPOUSE TO BE SAID STRAIGHT FACED.
    Now I can understand if he wanted to make this a comedy.... But no he wants to make the issue extremely serious and action packed with yoga goodness. And he wants me to do covers with scanky half naked women... even though there isn't any sex in the actual series until the very end... so the cover really has nothing to do with the rest of the issue. Sigh... this comic actually has made me up my standerds... because now I will never get on board until I have a feel for the script first no matter what the pay... for you simply can't pay people enough if you force them to do something like that on a day to day basis. I mean common... "did you just fart......" WHY WHY WOULD YOU THINK THATS CLEVER .....EVER.
    lmao wtf! The guy who wrote that must have no clue..The reader would be so confused as to whats going on.
    Form, Form, Form, Form, Form, Form, Form, Form, Form, Form.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The Dark Zone
    Posts
    638
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
    There is even a popstar as the female interest
    Who exactly is this minjit you ask?
    Rorke's Sketch Book of Doomy Dooomm!
    I don't want to go mommy...>.< you can't make me!

    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”
    --Robert McCloskey quote

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    332
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 39 Times in 17 Posts
    I guess that I've been pretty lucky then, I got a couple of clients right now and they let me do pretty much whatever I like and the few small changes they suggest are essentially just reasonable ones that tie in with the games functionality.

    One guy wanted me to do the GUI for a spaceport so I made a hangar with equipment etc and as I wanted to demonstrate how the spaceships in question would be placed in the hangar but didn’t really know how the earlier ships in the game looked like I made a quick sketch just out of my head. He replied with: hey, I like that ship, lets put it in the game. And I was paid to do a final render of that ship as well. I just love when the clients trust your judgement; it makes you so much more eager to push yourself and to produce something really good for them.

    When I think of it, I’ve had offers by some nutty clients as well, but thankfully I’ve realised it early enough to turn the jobs down. Hopefully I’ll have enough offers in the future to be able to do that further on as well.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    338
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    I'll agree... sometimes clients have no taste.

    My last project just went the same way. I showed them three concept sketches of their mascot character, and they picked the one I thought was the worst. When I colored it according to their specs, they hated it. They came up with an idea for adding a t-shirt to the character, to match the ones they were having made for their booth at a home expo. I slapped on a simple lineart t-shirt to the character, and they absolutely LOVED it.

    Everyone I showed it to said it looked amateurish with the t-shirt element added on, maybe they will see the light after the expo is over, and have me delete it. It's on a seperate layer, so no effort required there. Heck they can even do it themselves.

    It almost makes me want to cry. Sometimes the clients are their own worst enemies, if you ask me. I should have charged more.

    8)
    Last edited by Professor Az; October 24th, 2006 at 12:42 AM. Reason: Spelling

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Philly PA
    Posts
    3,389
    Thanks
    108
    Thanked 1,478 Times in 470 Posts
    the simple solution is to never give the client a choice that you are not happy with. Sometime you hand in 3 ideas and really want to do one, though the others are still good, but don't include something that you don't want to pursue further. The only reason I can think of to hand in a bad layout/thumbnail/whathaveyou is to force their hand on chosing the one you are more excited about. Obviously, this can backfire and I don't recomend trying it.

    Unless the client specifically asks you for something that you know is gonna suck. That's no good.
    "Every little step considered one at a time is not terribly daunting" - Ethan Coen

    New books and process DVD available NOW!

    www.dvpalumbo.com

    Quickie blog (nudity)

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,260
    Thanks
    48
    Thanked 233 Times in 68 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DavePalumbo
    but don't include something that you don't want to pursue further.

    SO true!!!! Never, EVER show a sketch that you don't want to do.... it will most likely be picked by the client!!!!! seems to be some sort of Murphys law...but for some strange reason, this happens quite often, like a sandwich always falls on the ground with the jelly side first....ALWAYS... :p

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    SWE
    Posts
    2,536
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 1,309 Times in 389 Posts
    Cynical reply, commence

    If you're gonna be a , expect there to be some fat old men in the clientele.

    Like Palumbo here said, you might wanna keep the ideas you don't like to yourself, cuz if you're not feeling passionate about an idea you might not be able to render it out any good either. It'll end up forced and unnatural, and it'll be boring as shit to struggle with.

    Although... you can only give them the ideas you don't like, and keep the good stuff under your own control. It's like eating the cake and still have it (although it might be one dull cake to bake).

    I guess it boils down to how you feel about working as an artist. Is it about the money? Do you want to do a good job? Do you enjoy working? Do you like to keep your Intellectual Rights? My answers to these questions really puts me on the fence.
    Jamen jag tror att han skäms, och har gömt sig. Vårt universum det är en av dom otaliga spermasatser som Herren i sin självhärliga ensamhet har runkat fram för å besudla intet.

  16. #15
    Ilaekae's Avatar
    Ilaekae is offline P.O.W.! Leader, Complete Idiot, Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Southwestern Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,129
    Thanks
    8,241
    Thanked 5,581 Times in 1,789 Posts
    To add to the soup being so skillfully simmered here...

    I have wanted to painfully kill every goddam client I ever had with a dull plastic spork. 'nuff said...
    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    1,746
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 56 Times in 14 Posts
    Unless the client requests it, I only send the final idea I decide upon. Any sketches and thumbs leading up to it I keep to myself. If they want changes or variations you can go back and pick another one or do some quick sketching.

    I remember one of the first concept jobs I got was to do some weapon designs. I got all psyched up and did like 10 different concepts. The client didn't like any of them. I did another 10, and he picked the first one I did out of the second series. From then on I only drew 2 or 3, and he would pick parts he liked from each one and have me combine them.

    Like good design, less is usually more.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wiesbaden, Germany
    Posts
    2,169
    Thanks
    613
    Thanked 551 Times in 183 Posts
    That may be true in the concept art area, but in media design, things work different as you have to work with more external content. The client sends you a overly compressed web-jpg and wants you to make an xxl-poster out of it. Of course, he won't pay you for reconstructing it, but he wants it to be sharp and clean. You send it, he's surprised "Why is this thing so blurry?". You tell him like you told him a thousand times before that the source material isn't usable. A short pause, then "Okay, that's totally fine, print it!". <insert upset manga smiley here>

    In my above cases, I did nothing but working with the given content (which was given by the client). Of course I won't give away a draft that I'm not comfortable with. I never do more than 1 draft either, so the client can choose what he likes and what he doesn't like without having insight in alternative solutions. I change it afterwards, he checks again. This can be difficult aswell and often takes more time, but it's easier for me to work with straight Yes' and No's.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Castrop-Rauxel, Germany
    Posts
    1,133
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts
    Clients led me to the idea of constantly carrying a chainsaw in the trunk of my cars ... 22 years of advertising showed me there´s no dumber species

    Fipse

    P.S. I like Ilaekaes idea with the plastic spork ...
    <Insert witty remark here>

  20. #19
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The Dark Zone
    Posts
    638
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
    I love my job don't get me wrong. I worked in a sulfur plant for a few years... I know what labor jobs are like... and even the worst client is better work then breaking your back all day and coming home exhausted with your hands all blistered so that you could'nt do your own art work even if you wanted to... So I count my lucky stars that I am in the job that I am in... But I think we all need to rant and get these things off our chests... you know... we all deal with these things as artists and its nice to have a place where people get that.
    Who exactly is this minjit you ask?
    Rorke's Sketch Book of Doomy Dooomm!
    I don't want to go mommy...>.< you can't make me!

    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”
    --Robert McCloskey quote

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wiesbaden, Germany
    Posts
    2,169
    Thanks
    613
    Thanked 551 Times in 183 Posts
    Haha, I laughed when I read the part with the sulfur plant. Looks like you've worked your way

  22. #21
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The Dark Zone
    Posts
    638
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts
    Everyone always ask me if it was smelly... It really wasn't but we did have a lot of product dust in the air... you would breath in and you could actually bite down on the air and feel a crunch.

    I got out while I still could.... But my father is still there trying to get to retirement... He has been there for 26 years... I just started evaluating my life at that point...
    Who exactly is this minjit you ask?
    Rorke's Sketch Book of Doomy Dooomm!
    I don't want to go mommy...>.< you can't make me!

    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.”
    --Robert McCloskey quote

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    helsinki, finland
    Posts
    157
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nicolas
    SO true!!!! Never, EVER show a sketch that you don't want to do.... it will most likely be picked by the client!!!!! seems to be some sort of Murphys law...but for some strange reason, this happens quite often, like a sandwich always falls on the ground with the jelly side first....ALWAYS... :p
    now think what would happend if you'd tie a sandwich to the back of a cat and dropped it on the floor.....

    sorry..
    currently playing: Kuhlau, Bach, Beethoven
    Le Order Nouveau!

  24. #23
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    10,430
    Thanks
    2,870
    Thanked 2,063 Times in 830 Posts
    no,what would happen if you smeared jelly on the back of a cat?

    (my guess is that it would either land on its side or explode)
    Sketchbook

    Sketchbooks of inspiration:
    Marc Taro|Maxetormer|ZhuZhu|Jeri|Dobu]


    Always think about:
    lighting! design! perspective! proportion!
    And (self)motivation is still everything.

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Wiesbaden, Germany
    Posts
    2,169
    Thanks
    613
    Thanked 551 Times in 183 Posts
    It first lands on it's side and then explodes. I tried it once. It was peanut butter tho, and not a cat but a small pekingese, so it's not a hundred percent established evidence.

  26. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    641
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 299 Times in 37 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DavePalumbo
    the simple solution is to never give the client a choice that you are not happy with. Sometime you hand in 3 ideas and really want to do one, though the others are still good, but don't include something that you don't want to pursue further. The only reason I can think of to hand in a bad layout/thumbnail/whathaveyou is to force their hand on chosing the one you are more excited about. Obviously, this can backfire and I don't recomend trying it.

    Unless the client specifically asks you for something that you know is gonna suck. That's no good.

    Thanks, Dave. That is the number one rule of illustration.

    Number one, after "do it on time." and "get the figures right!" ...They are ALL the number one rule.
    -------------
    Irene Gallo
    The Art Department (blog)
    http://igallo.blogspot.com/

  27. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    338
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DavePalumbo
    Unless the client specifically asks you for something that you know is gonna suck. That's no good.
    So, what should we do if the client DOES ask for something that we know is gonna suck big time? Do we pass on the opportunity to maybe make it better? Or is it best to avoid these types of situations by just saying "no"?

    I'm such a wage , I have problems rejecting potential work, is the reason I'm asking.


  28. #27
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    2,647
    Thanks
    18
    Thanked 1,432 Times in 152 Posts
    I thought it was in their "job description" to be difficult.... :0

  29. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    496
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Carnifex
    no,what would happen if you smeared jelly on the back of a cat?

    (my guess is that it would either land on its side or explode)
    http://antigravcatspin.ytmnd.com/

    Science wins again.


    Aye, in our Comm Design department, one of the things they tell mid-level students is to NEVER EVER show a client ANYTHING you don't like. As noted, they will choose it. Important pitfall to be aware of.

  30. #29
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Hudson River valley, NY
    Posts
    16,202
    Thanks
    4,876
    Thanked 16,685 Times in 5,021 Posts
    Unfortunately, even only showing sketches you like isn't always safe. An example...
    Many years ago I was asked to illustrate a magazine article on the big business of sports collectables, and how players were payed to autograph memorabilia. It was an interesting assignmernt, so I came up with a bunch of sketches. The two best ones were a hand putting a coin into a baseball-shaped piggy bank, and a figure signing a baseball, waist deep in other balls, with his face obscured by the brim of his baseball cap, the logo of which was a dollar sign. I would have been happy to take either one to finish. Imagine my dismay when i was informed that they liked both ideas so much that they wanted to combine them. They asked for the figure from the second to be holding the piggy-baseball from the first, and putting a folded $100 bill into it. I tried, in my best professional manner, to explain to them that that was a terrible idea that made no conceptual sense, but they were firm that that's what they wanted. So, I painted their crappy idea, did a far better job than they deserved, and cashed the check.

    Tristan Elwell
    **Finished Work Thread **Process Thread **Edges Tutorial

    "Work is more fun than fun."
    -John Cale

    "Art is supposed to punch you in the brain, and it's supposed to stay punched."
    -Marc Maron

  31. #30
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    362
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Az
    So, what should we do if the client DOES ask for something that we know is gonna suck big time? Do we pass on the opportunity to maybe make it better? Or is it best to avoid these types of situations by just saying "no"?
    It's all about how much work you want to do... personally, if an art description involves something that doesn't aesthetically appeal to me, I do it anyway, and I don't try to change the client's mind about what they want. They usually have a vision of how they want things, and I don't necessarily have to agree with it to execute it in a manner they're happy with. Not everything has to go in my portfolio, but I have to pay the rent every month no matter what.

    That said, I know some artists will pick and choose their clients, because it's more important to them to have the room for creativity... just like everything, it varies from artist to artist. Make the calls your pocketbook/clientlist/soul can live with.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 5
    Last Post: May 19th, 2013, 07:12 AM
  2. Art: My First Client
    By leonardo A in forum Finished Art
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: November 17th, 2010, 08:34 PM
  3. what's everyone taste in music?
    By timothychristopher in forum Artist Lounge
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: July 14th, 2007, 01:27 PM
  4. Bad taste?
    By glikster in forum Art Critique Center
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: March 4th, 2005, 01:26 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Designed by The Coldest Water, we build the coldest best water bottles, ice packs and best pillows.