quick question, and i hate to sound blunt, but do we really want more people to the point where we alter our concepts to taylor to them? people do the popular ones i think because the feel like they are good at them - and i don't know about you guys but i take pride in knowing that i am one of the few that is into this certain niche of concept art. now when i post stuff to my DA gallery i'll always explain the the IDW group and link to the thread, but im willing to bet that anybody who participates in any one of the activities knows that we are here.
i really enjoy the mixed bag of art, even though some of it isn't as fun as the rest, im using this as one of my primary exercises to get good enough to do this for a living. and its been said to death, but the fact of the matter is one day you will be creating a main battle tank and the next day you are making a crate... you gotta do it all!
in regards to tough critique/mentorship, i can't speak for form2function but he has been a vital instrument in my development as of late, and thats just on AIM. and while our core group fluctuates (heck i've only been doing this for a few months with any sort of consistency) i still think in terms of critique we need to be significantly harder on ourselves. there have already been some tussles about constructive critique, and unless we can let go of our art, nothing much will come of it... steering your talent in regards to the yes and no of a vote isn't going to get you anywhere, you gotta get into the meat of it in the comments.
in regards to tutorials some of the best things i have ever learned have come about recently from iain mccaig dvds, and an entire year of my life was spent using painter because of a ryan church tutorial, so i personally find screen cap stuff very valuable, but that being said, my fundamentals are crippled retard babies and nothing but going back and buffing out that unrefined core is going to change that.
last note, theres a wip thread in the main forums, but it might be nice to get something more industrially focused... like a wip group, or forum that only focuses on industrial design - not rendering etc... that can be very subjective but like fantasy art that involves alien anatomy there still is a wrong even if there isn't a right
Haha...no prob with the links...I know I sorta piled them on though..
Oh about the warfare stuff, topics. Ignore that, no it is very important to keep the topics different for everyone, I sentenced that wrong. That was just a tangent. Me typing without really thinking
It's true, you can't just be doing tanks, battle droids and all that stuff all the time. Industrial design has a massive range of topics and it's so broad. It does boil down to real simple crates as Legato mentioned sometimes. Heck, did you see the phone link...practically insane!!! The main thing is just keeping it fun and interesting. There is plenty you can do with a crate. Just make it fun, it could be a specialized crate that holds top secret weapons(argh, stop using weapons!), or killer Pokemon critters...to just shoes for that matter. Just leave it really open to the imagination. I think that's why the cutlery worked because it did leave a lot of it to your imagination. You could pretty much go anywhere with it and it's such a common household item too. We use it day in and day out.
In regards to critiques, very important. The critique's given in the tank topic were the best I'd ever seen. I would go as far to say they were even better then the one's on any other activities I've seen also. So yeah, having nice critique sessions like the one's during the poll are important. I understand what your saying Legato in terms of getting into the meat of our comments and ourselves. We do have to look at what we do with a objective eye.
Tutorials are a crop shoot with many. Plenty can get a lot out of them but mostly if you want to improve you gotta do it yourself and practice tons. I say that if somebody made a piece they really liked in one of the topics and saved the steps and wanted to put it in the tutorials section, go for it! I don't think it's absolutely required for us or you to post lots of tutorials on how to do this or that. If people who participated wanted to make tutorials on how they did their piece, hey thats great...but that option is up to them.
Er...I rambled again. Okay, I need to draw more
Oh about the mentoring bit, it's a nice idea but I'm worried that maybe it would be too much also. What I mean by that is you don't want to over-extend yourself as it already is if your real busy...however if you do think you have the time it's up to you.
The main thing is keeping IDW running smoothly. I imagine it would take some time to do something like that maybe. Although I do like the idea of it what Legato is thinking. Having some kind of forum focusing more on industrial design, robotics, tools, weapons...etc. Things like reference material could be posted there as well. It's still a decent amount of work but it could help a lot. would be a great plug for IDW as well
Last edited by Trashy; January 14th, 2008 at 03:05 PM.
Legato: I agree, I've seen a lot of good critiques here in IDW which I'm really pleased with. However, my logic behind the idea of making IDW more popular was that the bigger the competion, the more it motivates people to do their very best. Getting a couple of pro's in here to set an example would really motivate everyone I think. Not to play down anything that gets to poll, but the quality simply isn't always the best in every round at the moment. I prefer a fully rendered and painted piece above WIP's and half finished works to be honest, and seeing what happens in COW, EOW and CHOW I think IDW sometimes lacks this a bit.
Trashy: No problem, any thoughts are better than none You're spot on with your crate-example, I might even make a topic out of it...the problem with those tutorials is that in my opinion, too many entries at the moment are barely past the halfway finished milestone to do this effectively (Come to think of it, did you save the process on your cutlery? )
I've got a couple of announcements actually:
First, I decided to start mentoring after all Although I'll be busy the coming two weeks, I still have enough downtime in between projects to set something up I think. If not, I will after those two weeks. So, if you are interested, check here: Mentor sign-up thread page 16
Second, I think the idea of making a thread with inspiration, discussion about design in general and all that kind of stuff is great. I might change the 'link' thread somewhat to allow for this to happen.
Last but not least, I'm currently trying to get a winner icon off the ground (yes, at long last). The first ideas sound promising, but we're far from anything finished so I won't promise anything. However, I need someone to make us an icon like the COW icon (and recently the CHOW icon as well). I've not yet any idea what it should look like (the sprocket is already an icon so is not really suitable I guess). If you are willing to create and icon or know someone who can, please let me know.
Edit: Just for clarity, I didn't just started mentoring to attract more people for IDW. It was mainly inspired by the fact that I get mentored by Jens on landscapes and color studies, so I figured I should return the favour. Then again, I hope the result of me mentoring is that we can raise the quality in here so people will get even more inspired. This is in the end I think the main aspect that will get more people in here, if we start making top notch renderings that blow peoples mind
Last edited by yoitisi; January 14th, 2008 at 06:47 PM.
Sorry for not jumping in here sooner, I took a couple days off to deal with a few things.
On Participation: I think the ideas presented so far are all good tactics. Getting the challenges out there each week always helps, as does promoting a general awareness that we're here. I've done what I can to do my part, but like myself a lot of the core group right now tends to mostly reside in this section of the forums. Those who do travel around should definitely spread the word as best they can. The mentoring thread should also generate some visibility. The trick really is to get one or two heavy hitters involved on a regular basis. People often flock to where the talent is. Another idea to throw out there would be every so often to have a week where we tie into the CHOW topic. For example with the current one, some sort of religious object would be appropriate. Then those working on their CHOW entries could think about the IDW one in parallel and see if they want to work on both entries since they're in the same line of thought. I say CHOW because it's the most relevant to ID, whereas objects for creatures or environments would be harder to fit in closely. A character always has accessories though. Just one idea.
On References: I'm actually of a different mindset than most on this one. I feel slamming too many references of other people's work can often influence one's design more than it should. There's a fine balance somewhere in there that should be held. Additionally, I think it goes against the spirit of what we do here. One of the core ideas behind following weekly briefs is to emulate a working environment, where you're given a topic and you have to deliver. Collecting references is a big part of what a designer has to do when working on a project, and I think it's important that each one goes through that on their own as opposed to being handed everything on a silver platter. A few references for inspiration are fine as part of the brief and often are present at work as well. But I've seen some rounds that were utterly swamped with reference material. Call me a strict and mean bastard, but pushing ourselves is what we're about and I feel that's part of the process. Now a separate thread where we might share inspiration that's unrelated to a topic is a whole different matter, and would likely help many. But that should serve as general inspiration. If we're doing tanks, that thread shouldn't be flooded with tank images for the week (and why the hell are we all using tanks as an example, heh).
On Critiques: As any regular participant as of late knows, I'm big on them. For me it's as important as the creation of an entry, because one often learns as much from both. I've said this before, but I think crit for those who participate in a round should be mandatory. If you spent a week working on and submitting an entry, you should be able to find a few minutes to offer in-depth critique for everyone else. Especially since you'll be receiving critique on your own entry from others. For those that didn't participate it should obviously be optional and welcome, but for participants it should be at least an unwritten rule.
All for now as I have to get back to work.
PS: Yoitisi, I'm all over the icon situation and I'll shoot some ideas to you soon. I actually started working on this a while back after talking with Oregano about their icon plans for CHOW, which he told me he'd touch base with you about. I'm guessing he recently did and that's why you brought it up.
I was thinking about suggesting a collaboration with all the activities but I have not yet done so because first COW 100 was going on, then CHOW 100 and now POW just started, so I'll leave that for now.
The reference thread I had in mind would focus more on modern art, different real life Industrial Designers and their work, some design history etc. There's a lot to learn from what happens outside CA and outside the profession of concept artist that can be implemented in here. The shape of a simple well designed chair can inspire you to use it for your tank design (there you go, tanks again ). I don't think having a lot of specific reference in there is very useful. Some military themes and stuff is fine, but since I try to make the topics as diverse as I can I want the thread to be more of a general inspiration ground with different styles and design philosphies. I'll have more time to fix this in two weeks time as most of my deadlines are done by then, but after that I'll see what I can do.
Making the providing of critiques and comments mandatory is something I will not do ever. This community is all about sharing etc. but it has to come from the participants themselves. I cannot force people to critique nor can I force them to participate in the first place. Even if, I think a forced post of critique will never be whole heartedly done and thus less usefull. I do encourage people to critique though, because as form2function already said, you can learn from giving critique as much from recieving it.
Last edited by yoitisi; January 17th, 2008 at 12:40 PM.
yoitisi - I think the direction of utilizing a hanful of pictures and working from that for the star fighter was a great idea. I dont think we use that kind of inspiration enough. Wish I could be involved more, just can not right now. the star fighter threads and I am sure the ongoing carrier thread will be as good. doing a great job with this forum.