I'm gonna be honest here, and I don't intend to hurt anyone's feelings. But, by now, you all probably know I usually speak my mind. For once this won't be the if-you-can't-say-anything-nice-don't-say-it-at-all post, simply because I'm sad and angry to see that a lot of amazing artists aren't moving on to the next rounds.
Match 1. I'm really sorry, but it looks like m@ just discovered PS texture brushes for the first time. Things are mushy and blurry and distracting from whatever is going on. ZERO people voted for Proteus? ZERO votes? Proteus' piece may not have the best in accuracy, but it looks like he really pushed to create a full illustration with background, action, humans, and vehicles. Seriously. Not one vote for that?
Poise's piece blew me away in Match 8. I believe it's one of her absolute best. It showed both an amazing idea, and amazing artwork to make that idea come to fruition. Main Loop had a great idea, but the composition and anatomy is off to the point of being distracting from the piece.
Match 9 was an odd choice for winner because there was clearly so much more effort involved in the rendering of the 2 losing paintings.
Match 11 seems so out of place. The winning entry was the least detailed and least thought out. It was cliche, had Photoshop stamped all over it, and looked as though no time was spent on it at all in comparison to the losing 2. I know I've seen Tyranx do so much more amazing quality, so I'm entirely confused as to how his piece was chosen.
Match 17, I'm a little confused by, but I think it's more personal taste so I don't know. But I feel that the losing 2 were a bit better rendered.
Match 22. Wow. Really? El Coro's bottom half wasn't even properly cropped to match the top half. There's a big white line down the left side. I liked the idea, but c'mon. Did he get the votes simply because he is El Coro? Did the judges not see the cropping? I think it was very very big of him to give his win to Dave Palumbo. I respect that a hell of a lot, when the actual "winning" artist has a better sense of who is worthy of the win than the judges in this case.
Match 26. I know humor usually gets votes and Summer's is a bit cliche in idea, but the lighting and depth in Summer Pudding's piece is spectacular while Rusty's is sketchy and flat.
Match 30 (removed so I can prove my point about the better rating system.)
And to give a constructive idea (amongst my seemingly apparent bitterness) that would better suit the voting system, I believe each piece should be voted on, and given a rating between 1 - 10. 1 being absolute BS and 10 being perfect in every way possible. No one should be receiving a 1 unless it is obvious that they are incapable of creating a stick man and no one should be given a 10 unless the image is flawless. This would ensure that no one receives zero votes. It also is a much more accuate and fair method of voting for what we all do: artwork. No one here is worthy of zero votes, and that sort of method doesn't tell much about the pieces when a judge is only capable of choosing 1. Imagine instead, that one piece is rated an 8 and the other is rated a 6, and the third is a 9. This scale method says much more about the actual art, as more time is taken to actual judge the individual images, rather than a judge being forced to choose just one. Please take this into consideration for the next battle round so that the image is rated and not simply abandoned.
OK, fire away. I just couldn't sit back in silence any longer.
Last edited by magicgoo; October 2nd, 2006 at 05:51 PM.
There were a few rounds I was surprised with the voting results and wish some people had made it through while others not, but I also understand that the judges aren't me, and see things through different eyes.
A rating system used by the judges, as Magicgoo suggested, could work better. Might help reduce any bias that could occur during judging and would probably reduce the chance of a stalemate between entries and the need for more judges.
EDIT: The system works well now, and of course implementing a rating system would be more work, for Cody and the judges. The rating system is only an idea, and considering we're already into the third round, wouldn't make much sense to implement. Perhaps something to consider for the next LMS.
Last edited by romance; October 1st, 2006 at 10:31 PM.
uh oh.........do you guys hear that? i could be wrong, but, no wait! there it is...thats the unmistakable sound of the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE!!!
c'mon guys? really why make it more complicated than it really is? so we can all feel good about ourselves cuz we got a vote cuz we twied so hawd?
i respect the hell out of all the judges in this and previous thunderdomes, and see no reason to open it up to let the public decide. the general public, are, in fact typically the worst judges in terms of taste. id prefer to let the professionals sort it out. i have been a judge for a few of these, and im always quick to vote for what i feel is the better image, plain and simple. some people might not agree with me, but we are all entitled to our opinions. i myself am just happy that cody is generous enough to give his time to these tdomes, and am sensitive to the fact that the more complicated these things get, the more the man has to work. the system is not perfect, but i think its a damn good system. and id rather have judges who's eyes i respect wieghing in their opinions than open it up to a vote.....-c36
Ursula, art is not countable, "much art", not "many art". I don't think we can give such a discrete rating (6 or 8 or 5) to our subjective feeling about art work.
Another thing in my opinion, we need to accept judges decision. Because it is a system of trust in some way. It has some weak sides, but if we took it in the beginning of the contest we need to stick with it. I might think differently about entries, but I play by rules we chose in the beginning. Or it will be chaos and endless arguing and lost of trust and attraction to the contest..
In my eyes people who didn't get farther are not losers in any sense. Just didn't go farther because of the rules.
I had a pretty long drawn out retort, but felt it was best just to summarize:
Point number 1 - Cody's dome, Cody's rules. Don't like? Don't play.
Point number 2 - Judges are not receiving free Nanos to do this so show some respect for their participation. Disagree? Fine, but there's a reason why these people do what they do and are successful at it. Learn from their reasoning rather than fight it. (You still don't have to agree, but learn anyway; The bottom line should be to learn something from all of this so you can become a stronger more competent artist).
Point number 3 - The amount of time you spend on a piece is never a way to measure its success. Also, a more finished looking piece does not mean it is more valid than something done in a loose style. Finished or unfinished, it's what you set out to achieve and how closely you came to your goal in the end that counts. Did you want an ultra photo realistic rendering but ended up with a sketchy and/or anatomically incorrect painting? Then it is an unsuccessful piece. If you wanted a sketchy stylized piece with a loose painterly style, and got just that, then its successful. And if it only took you three hours to do, that's no reason not to deserve to move on. I think this is along the lines of what happened in Match 30.
I have to say it REALLY ticks me off that the guy who beat me didn't submit.
Some critique; Not saying anything about "who shoulda won" or "This piece shouldn't have won", because that's not my decision. Match 1
M@: I gotta agree with the Goo here. I also don't really like the blue.. I think something purplish would have complimented the skin a little better.
Proteus' was awesome, though It would have been cool if the guy's suit had folds and stuff to show the penetration better.
I am sad to see BOON not submit...
Very nice Posh, though I think her leg is just slightly stiff and long (though it probably fits the perspective, it looks just a bit too long). It's a classical piece and the execution is awesome.
Cody, not much for the concept (but it is innovative and original), and the only real problem I see with it is that the brush strokes are very visible, and it kinda makes the piece feel less "done".
SBA: The girl doesn't really look too sweaty or tired, just a bit banged up. I think you could have also handled the perspective better, the truck and the house seem on different planes a bit.
David; I love the sense of foreshadowing (not foreshortening) the piece has, the only thing I see is that the girl's head looks a bit too big in comparison with her body.
Mr. Visions, The only thing I think detracts are the hands that aren't there... It would have been a great spot to do something cool I think, it is the only thing I am not fond of in the piece, mostly because I don't know what it is. James Kei, we know you work hard ;D
Robinchyo; Almost no crits; the only thing, which is very subjective, is that I think it is a bit stiff, and perhaps it could have been more of a "jump" than a "run". But that's just my opinion.
yAdam, if the figures were up to par with the monster, this would be a great piece. No real crits other than that.
DUTTON! Dutton dutton- this is such an AWESOME PIECE! It's brilliant! My only comment is on his lower leg, it looks sort of funny but I couldn't say why. The colors and the expressions are freakin' INCREDIBLE! Kudos man, Kudos.
Hyver; The composition is delightful! My only crits are the colors, which sometimes seem muddy, or out of place because of saturation. That, and the bear- Not sure if you used reference, but I think the bear hurts the piece a bit.
Gringo; Sometimes I really like your lines, other times not so much; This time I like the lines, but not the colors. There are parts of his suit that are all pinched and stuff? I'm not sure why- but it sort of ruins a "clean" stylization you have otherwise. Tryin' to figure out the Naked chick too.
Helzon; Cool piece! Her arms are slightly unreadable, and I would have seen the lightsource effect the BG more, but overall, the characters and designs are good, the colors are good, the anatomy is good. Nice work! =)
Johanson, Great concept, though I think more emphasis could be placed on his hands. The composition and flow of action is nice, but I think you should have varied your pallette just a bit, some parts blend a bit too much. Other than that it is a real nice piece.
No crits at all for this Match.
Nicolas, yours was simply awesome. The small pink strip on the bottom added a sort of back story to the characters that I think really makes the scene hit home that much more.
Hurricane, this one is just funny. The gestures, the expression, and the colors. Nice!
BDub; I think the guy should have been farther up on the ladder, as is, the compostion seems really unbalanced. It's a good concept, but some of the people seem inconsistent with the lighting scheme. Perhaps you should introduce more yellow into the highlights, or more bluish into the shadows.
Main Loop; What an EXPRESSION! This is a GREAT piece, hands down. The only thing I am not fond of is the anatomy in the girl to the left. Her head seems just a bit too big for her body.
Tiffany; My favorite part is the unsymmetry between the ladies. It's so... natural and fitting... I just love it so much!
Spraynation; The bike seems a bit out of perspective, and the figures I think could have been better, but overall, with the concept, the composition, the colors and all, it is a great piece.
Min; WOOOOOOOOOOOOOAH. Those faces in the explosion- so radical! There is something about the colors that bugs me, but I don't know what it is- but this is definitley an incredible piece.
Ghill; I think the lines around the figure sort of hurt the piece, along with the lack of contrast in his skin, and the colors. The concept is sort of stale, but the pose is done well, but the background seems like a cop out, and alot of the lines are still visible which kind of hurts the piece as well..
No crits, aside from I think Fedezz went slightly overboard on the textures, just a little. GREAT pieces, from all of you.
I remember you saying (in your exclusive book I think) that you need to work on vehicles- don't want to be rude but I couldn't agree more. Great piece aside from the bike, which just look terribley skewed I'm afraid- Especially the water. I can see you payed special attention to that even though noone would hardly notice it =)
Tyranx; Very simple, very cool.
RasselTass; I love it- the colors, the scene, the action! My favorite of this match, which is quite a match indeed.
No crits; Matches like this make my life easier
Praise to Kelv for goin Grayscale, and the incredible details. Mr. Potato head, 2 furbies, trolls, Optimus Prime, buzz lightyear.. the gangs all here!
Arkady; It's fairly messy, and not in a stylish kinda way.. The birdcage seems muddily colored, and her face isn't hardly effected by the light. I assume you were busy, because I know you can do better!
Stace; Great piece, I'm no horse anatomist, but the pose looks a bit like he's gonna crash and burn... other than that, I love it.
Again no crits; great, great, great match.
Shamagim; I think the gnomes falling back could be grabbing on to something to emphasize them flying back-
Other than that, zero critsos.
Nacho; Great piece overall- I think the kid is slightly out of perspective, but you managed to capture a very dream-like scene with the way you handled the BG- very nicely done.
Dreck; Looks like you had fun with the overaly adjustments? The piece is a bit messy, but it got a giggle out of me.
No Crits for Andy!
No crits again? These matches are getting better each time! o_o
Shadoman: I think some of the materials and the composition could have been handled more effectivley, but for what it is, it is pretty good.
No crits for Plobo
Gloominati: It loks like more of a battle than an escape to me- the character doesn't seem to be going anywhere other than into the fray. The Anatomy on alot of the figures seems very off, I think if you would have used reference it would have benefitted you greatly.
Again, NO crits! Just... great FANFREAKIN TASTIC JOB for both of yas!
Ditto... Kudos to Simon for the sequential.
Clubb, the perspective on the main guy is very nice, but alot of the pic seems flat;
As for you two.. Dave, you know what I think- Coro,
I love you, I really do. But you creep me the fuck out sometimes.
I you all
This is such a classic Vyle piece! haha! Good work.
Yumiko; The thing I love the most are the clouds; It's a great piece overall- only 2 things really get my goat/ram if you will- The colors... something about em, maybe all the black in the piece, sorta leaves me hanging. The composition too, it took me a while to discover who was escaping-
But those is some damn nice clouds.
Iolarnula; I like the composition, very dynamic! To tell the truth if this was happening at sunset, or over an ocean, or something that added more to the piece, I would really dig it, but just the clouds seems sort of boring. The ray is done very well though!
First 2; Funny and done really well. Good work!
Snarfevs; Everything is shiny and glisteny and stuff. Everything! even the rocks! You seem to have set aside the anatomy and perspective for the rendering and concept, which I think really hurts your piece. The background seems totally irrelevant to the rest of the piece, and it's more of an assasination than an escape.
2 wonderful pieces, Rusty's is so funny! And Summer Puddings is just beautiful.
Badger; I think you could have been more meticulous with details and had a better outcome; along with a few more higher highlights.
Mythmaker; It's a great piece, awesome colors; It's just really busy, and I can't tell wether it's supposed to be day or night- but It's a nice piece.
Romance; Great, stunning, beautiful. No crits.
Jason Chan is totally gonna lose this round.
I will use this time to be mad at Theif for beating me, being faced against the Chan man, and NOT EVEN SUBMITTING!!!!! =( Perhaps Jason, I could make it up to you by doing a little private T-Dome if you feel so compelled?
Shame on Fidi as well! THIS Was supposed to be one of the best matches evar! I just hope it was because something personal happened or something like too many deadlines.. if it's because of laziness, that would totally BLOW! =(
Manley and Bowlin, Good luck competing with Matt's boobies. Kudos to Jason though for going Blacknwhite.
Robot, awesome piece, same to you Goo-
but I am depressed Helium couldn't do a piece. Though I suppose it's better for you 2, ain't it? =)
WHEW! Hour an a half or some such! And it didn't get deleted! woot!
Good luck to all, and better luck next time to the ones who don't make it!
Last edited by Justin.; October 1st, 2006 at 10:35 PM.
. I didn't ridicule Ursula. don't see anything to laugh about. She spoke her mind, very respected thing. I listened to her arguments. I thought it is not a practical idea. I think it will do more damage than good. Ursula is very nice though. .
P.S. Just I can't think how it will be working. This piece is almost 6, ok solid 5. but another one sure deserved 7?... It is imposibble to measure feelings. It is "I like it" or I don't like it" or" I love it very much". Which in the end means you give it your vote or zero.
Last edited by sve; October 1st, 2006 at 11:32 PM.
Match 30. Well you know I'm gonna be biased about this one, but c'mon. While I spent 2-3 days on my piece of cliche, ill-colored, uninspired crap, it's still more than the few hours that was spent by the winner. I received zero votes for my piece, and at least it has fairly proper anatomy and some detail. The winner didn't quite finish coloring his and the anatomy is so wonky, I'm just not sure of how this got 5 of 5 votes with a big, glaring, white background and glowing leaves? Kryptonite? At least give me 1 tiny vote for completing mine and drawing all of those tentacle suckers.
Criticism is fine Ursula, but I like how you stuck in the whole I-can't-believe-my-opponent-won-my-match-mine-is-so-much-better whiny bullshit in an attempt to simultaneously discount your opponent's and the judges' credibility. Classy!
I know that you think you are on to something with your rating system idea, but I hate to break it to you that it's just as subjective as picking which piece out of the three is the best image. You absolutely knew that this was judged subjectively and it all comes down to opinions, but these are opinions of industry professionals that I and the rest of the community trust whose work speaks volumes of their ability to take on such a task. Each match has multiple judges, and if you did not receive one vote out of 5 maybe, just maybe, your opponent's piece wasn't as bad as you thought it was.
Boo hoo hoo, you didn't win a goddamn online art contest that was run purely for fun. And what a travesty that the pieces you thought should win didn't! By god, I better contact you soon so that you can judge all of the upcoming matches all by your lonesome.
Criticism is fine and encouraged. You attempting to tear down artists and judges alike because they didn't match your highness' expectations is just plain fucking sad.
While I know this doesn't apply to the majority of you as you all know this is all about the process and particiaption, I might as well say it. If you are the type of person to become upset over losing in a trivial online art contest, do yourself a favor and don't sign up to participate. I'd say with 1 winner out of 271, the odds are pretty well stacked against you.
This is fun! Should we just shut this thing down? Feelings might be hurt!
Cody, may I say? I don't think she wanted to discredit anyone. It is better to allow people say their thougths and listen to them and then do what you think is right. because it is ... strong position. I think she is just honest. You are too. I love Last Man Standing. Lets continue this huge fun !
But people are not robots, they get attached sometimes. it is not a bad thing. She just loved some pieces very much.
Hope you will not get upset over my words. I think you both are very sweet, loyal to CA.org people.