Results 1 to 30 of 30
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Vangroovy Island, BC
    Posts
    929
    Thanks
    84
    Thanked 189 Times in 112 Posts

    Threadcrapping in Employment

    I thought we were over this behaviour. And in fact, it hasn't gone on for some time. But it sure is now and it really comes across as unprofessional. Not just for the participants, but just plain looks bad for CA as well.

    I think this sort of forum behaviour is worth some major warnings or temp bans.
    Grave Sight Graphics: The Art of Eric Lofgren.
    elofgren@ telus.net (to use e-mail address please remove space between the '@' and 'telus')

    My Art Blog
    My Online Portfolio (Updated Jan. 30/ 2011)
    ~NiNjA~^~mOuNtAiN~^~PoDcAsT~(Working illustrators talking illustration)
    Eric Lofgren's licensible rpg art resource
    Art Director for New Gods of Raanon


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    3,233
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 849 Times in 457 Posts
    Well, there is a lot of whinning in the jobs forum and we're trying to get rid of the worst part. However there are some goddawful job posters with crappy scams who get offended when you tell them that paying .50$ for a drawing doesn't make sense.

    I don't mind people doing the math and pointing out when an offer doesn't make much sense. I just wish they were more diplomat about it to avoid the escalading of insults.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Vangroovy Island, BC
    Posts
    929
    Thanks
    84
    Thanked 189 Times in 112 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Qitsune

    I don't mind people doing the math and pointing out when an offer doesn't make much sense. I just wish they were more diplomat about it to avoid the escalading of insults.
    Fully agreed
    Grave Sight Graphics: The Art of Eric Lofgren.
    elofgren@ telus.net (to use e-mail address please remove space between the '@' and 'telus')

    My Art Blog
    My Online Portfolio (Updated Jan. 30/ 2011)
    ~NiNjA~^~mOuNtAiN~^~PoDcAsT~(Working illustrators talking illustration)
    Eric Lofgren's licensible rpg art resource
    Art Director for New Gods of Raanon

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    3,430
    Thanks
    643
    Thanked 1,484 Times in 719 Posts
    Would this be about the post offering $40 a go for photorealistic illustrations?

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    3,233
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 849 Times in 457 Posts
    There are tons of those, there is one employer who caused plenty of fighting as they used to ask art tests from everyone who applied and now they came back with stupendous rates.

    On the other hand, I don't mind the employers who ask artists to name their prices, even if it irritates some artists.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Austin TX
    Posts
    11,707
    Thanks
    2,091
    Thanked 11,435 Times in 2,935 Posts
    Anyone acting unprofessionally in that key area of the site will be banned. Got it? Artists or employers...

    J

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,524
    Thanks
    374
    Thanked 339 Times in 160 Posts
    There should be stricter guildelines both ways in that section or even a middleman to post into the section.
    DON'T CLICK THIS

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Hawaii
    Posts
    1,746
    Thanks
    23
    Thanked 56 Times in 14 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by evildisco
    ...a middleman to post into the section.
    I think that's a great idea. Someone to help filter the posts would be great. It would definately help to promote a more professional appearance in that section.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Pasadena, CA
    Posts
    3,535
    Thanks
    236
    Thanked 308 Times in 195 Posts
    I think Jason used to do that once in a while. Not sure what companies think of it, perhaps it would be even easier for them?

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,524
    Thanks
    374
    Thanked 339 Times in 160 Posts
    Elaborating on it a bit more, the section could be closed to free posting and prospect employers and employees could contact the 'middleman' to either post an offer or get in touch with one of the employers. Of course the 'middleman' would have to be dedicated to check the validity of both instances.
    It would leave a lot more clutterfree, which is probably what Jason wants anyway.
    DON'T CLICK THIS

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    693
    Thanks
    14
    Thanked 25 Times in 7 Posts
    How about we just stick to the "you get what you pay for" policy.
    You need to keep in mind there are plenty of members who still have a way to go on professional freelance work so this kind of thing can be appetising.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,524
    Thanks
    374
    Thanked 339 Times in 160 Posts
    We've seen that fail with the 'threadcrapping' issue, more than once.
    DON'T CLICK THIS

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Global Ultraspace
    Posts
    370
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 22 Times in 17 Posts
    Making every job offer a locked thread by default would get rid of this. We would loose the numerous posts of Stourangeau but also the sometime useful feedback on bad employers though.
    Concept Art
    Comic Art
    Illustration
    Artist for hire

    Portfolio
    Blog

    Repossessed: a Graphic Novel in the making
    REPOSSESSED

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,524
    Thanks
    374
    Thanked 339 Times in 160 Posts
    That's why the 'middleman' should devote himself to validate the offers. So it should be someone really familiar with the industry workings.
    DON'T CLICK THIS

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    2,987
    Thanks
    295
    Thanked 290 Times in 173 Posts
    rentacoder.com has that system worked out pretty well...too bad its meant for programmers not artists.

    If people (artists and employers) could just be more professional, it would help a ton with what we have.
    My work: [link]

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    362
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
    I know CGTalk requires a mod to review all job offer postings before they go live - might be a lot of work to dump on our mods, though.

    Alternately, maybe we could establish a low-pay section, and just set monetary guidelines for what goes in there and what goes in the basic forum. That would prevent a lot of the friction as well, in my opinion.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Philly PA
    Posts
    3,389
    Thanks
    108
    Thanked 1,478 Times in 470 Posts
    maybe we could establish a low-pay section
    though I have rolled my eyes many times at the compensation being offered in some of the paying jobs, I don't think that a low-pay section is going to solve anything. It will just make more clutter and lead to more misplaced threads. Payment also is relative to the amount of work being asked for, so there's going to be grey area. I think the locked thread and middleman ideas may have possibilities though. Perhaps there could be a form that employers would fill in that would outline important details (time-frame, budget, etc.) along with the general info of the job. Organizing it like this might give the threads a more professional appearance and encourage less experienced companies and individuals to have their details a little more clearly stated.
    "Every little step considered one at a time is not terribly daunting" - Ethan Coen

    New books and process DVD available NOW!

    www.dvpalumbo.com

    Quickie blog (nudity)

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    211
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
    Hey guys ;D

    Only an idea what came in mind now , how would it be to have a employment template set up here and the employers have to fill it , it would makes it easier for them and for the artists to see what they want and what they need hmm for example like:
    the adress or contact, the working place, conditions, payment method monthly weekly,none etc.., requirements etc... , expected timeperiod... ?
    i think the employes wouldn´t forget than important things may be it would also be clearer if a job is a fake etc for the artists..
    Last edited by Myako; September 20th, 2006 at 02:14 AM.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    362
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts
    I think a form sounds like a great idea. I'd be all for that.

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,260
    Thanks
    48
    Thanked 233 Times in 68 Posts
    its easy, If you dont like the job or the pay.... IGNORE it. dont post telling a possible employer how shitty his / her offer is. Noone is holding a gun to your head making you take the job....
    Its their offer,if they want to post it, thats fine. You dont like it, dont take it. Period.

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,473
    Thanks
    70
    Thanked 146 Times in 53 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by nicolas
    its easy, If you dont like the job or the pay.... IGNORE it. dont post telling a possible employer how shitty his / her offer is. Noone is holding a gun to your head making you take the job....
    Its their offer,if they want to post it, thats fine. You dont like it, dont take it. Period.

    Agreed 100%.

  23. #22
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    3,233
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 849 Times in 457 Posts
    nicolas, however it happened recently that an employer revised their rates after someone did the math on their offer.

    Another point is, if the threads are locked, the employer SHOULD fill a form, many offers are really unclear and ppl NEED to ask questions.

    Sometimes the employer doesn't mention if it's remote or on location and they don't mention if it's a paying job (and it's not a given that jobs posted in the paying section are paying, we move threads around all the time.)

  24. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    2,524
    Thanks
    374
    Thanked 339 Times in 160 Posts
    Ahem, http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...23&postcount=2 this is what I mean by people with the intelligence of roadkill
    getting free access to the employment section and projecting a really negative view of the whole community to important companies.
    DON'T CLICK THIS

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    2,987
    Thanks
    295
    Thanked 290 Times in 173 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by evildisco
    Ahem, http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sho...23&postcount=2 this is what I mean by people with the intelligence of roadkill
    getting free access to the employment section and projecting a really negative view of the whole community to important companies.
    I have to agree, that makes us all look bad. Very unprofessional.
    My work: [link]

  26. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Vangroovy Island, BC
    Posts
    929
    Thanks
    84
    Thanked 189 Times in 112 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by black_fish
    Making every job offer a locked thread by default would get rid of this. We would loose the numerous posts of Stourangeau but also the sometime useful feedback on bad employers though.
    I think this is a good idea. And any feedback that was necessary could go in The Lounge, perhaps. Or in the Employment Discussion thread.
    Grave Sight Graphics: The Art of Eric Lofgren.
    elofgren@ telus.net (to use e-mail address please remove space between the '@' and 'telus')

    My Art Blog
    My Online Portfolio (Updated Jan. 30/ 2011)
    ~NiNjA~^~mOuNtAiN~^~PoDcAsT~(Working illustrators talking illustration)
    Eric Lofgren's licensible rpg art resource
    Art Director for New Gods of Raanon

  27. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,473
    Thanks
    70
    Thanked 146 Times in 53 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Qitsune
    nicolas, however it happened recently that an employer revised their rates after someone did the math on their offer.

    Another point is, if the threads are locked, the employer SHOULD fill a form, many offers are really unclear and ppl NEED to ask questions.

    Sometimes the employer doesn't mention if it's remote or on location and they don't mention if it's a paying job (and it's not a given that jobs posted in the paying section are paying, we move threads around all the time.)
    There should be no need to lock the threads, as you said, people need to ask questions (i.e. if the employer has been vague about information regarding the job).

    It's when people start flaming possible employers that it becomes a problem.

    Instead of getting the torches and pitchforks and chasing naive or cheap employers out of town, we should give them maps and directions on how to provide information and competitive pay for the employment they are posting.

    There should be enough common sense in all of us here to:
    not get caught in a scam job, keep the nasty comments out of the threads, and help guide the employers.

    -R

  28. #27
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    3,233
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 849 Times in 457 Posts
    New trendy activity: Insulting and threatening mods, how can anyone get more stupid than that?

  29. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Austin TX
    Posts
    11,707
    Thanks
    2,091
    Thanked 11,435 Times in 2,935 Posts
    as of now, the employment section has a no tolerance policy toward idiocy from forum members. If they act unprofessional, simply ban them. I will ban on sight.

    cool?


    JM

  30. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New Haven, CT
    Posts
    2,987
    Thanks
    295
    Thanked 290 Times in 173 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Manley
    as of now, the employment section has a no tolerance policy toward idiocy from forum members. If they act unprofessional, simply ban them. I will ban on sight.

    cool?


    JM
    Muchas Gracias

    I would just suggest you make the policy on strict professionalism a little bit clearer then it is. Maybe a new sticky?
    My work: [link]

  31. #30
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    3,233
    Thanks
    860
    Thanked 849 Times in 457 Posts
    Seriously, who reads stickies?
    I think the main problem is, the jobs forums is mainly patrolled by mods with limited powers, the admins and supermods don't need art jobs do they?

Similar Threads

  1. Education for Better Employment?
    By Rheill in forum Education & Schools for Artists
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: November 4th, 2008, 07:20 AM
  2. PS Brusher Employment T_T
    By Chaospainter in forum Photoshop
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: September 10th, 2007, 12:35 PM
  3. War and employment
    By Gnurt in forum Education & Schools for Artists
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: April 6th, 2003, 08:34 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Designed by The Coldest Water, we build the coldest best water bottles, ice packs and best pillows.