Nerevar Betrayed!
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    Nerevar Betrayed!

    Here's a personal project that I've been thinking about for a while. I finally feel confident enough to tackle it.

    basically I'm portraying the death of Indoril Nerevar (the dying figure) at the hands of his most trusted leiutenants (from left to right) Almalexia, who is also his lover and queen, Sotha Sil in the back and Vivec. I want to show Nerevar in a state of confusion, sadness and anger, while the rest show contempt (I don't even think I'll show sotha's face)

    Anyways, here's the rough skecth. I'll be colouring it in later. Even though I don't feel 'stuck' on any particual place, I'd still like comments and crits, especially about the composition

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    Last edited by Jason Rainville; September 17th, 2006 at 11:38 PM.
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    Lil update

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    What's happening behind them? They're dead center of the composition, so i'm not too happy if these are the only persons in the picture. If you fill this completely with grieving people or whining goat or something, you'll have an interesting piece. If you only add landscape, it's gonna be quite boring. This seems like a grande moment, so add more space around them, so the drama will be heightened. Might work better if you turn this into a portrait rather then landscape, cropping the canvas on the sides. Then you'll have more space to add in rocks without losing dynamics. Sorry if i'm unclear, i'm just throwing in some ideas here.

    I'm also not too sure on the anatomy. The falling dude has issues with his arm and his calf seems a tad short. His forehead is rather big, so the perspective isn't working completely i guess. Striking me as a bit odd, is him being so big and bodybuilderlike, while still having that elvish head. The cloths also seem rather stiff and forced. The girl seems a bit mannish, the hairline is too high up. Her pose seems a bit... disinterested.

    Now, i have no idea who these figures are, but if you're going for the death, it might be good to add some clouds and gods looking back and waving 'hi hi, we're waiting for you, dead guy' or birds or flowers, dunno, add symbolisms like those italians did with their mythological/biblical pieces.

    Like i said, just some ideas. Seems like a good start though. Interested to see where you're taking it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookiedough
    What's happening behind them? They're dead center of the composition, so i'm not too happy if these are the only persons in the picture. If you fill this completely with grieving people or whining goat or something, you'll have an interesting piece. If you only add landscape, it's gonna be quite boring. This seems like a grande moment, so add more space around them, so the drama will be heightened. Might work better if you turn this into a portrait rather then landscape, cropping the canvas on the sides. Then you'll have more space to add in rocks without losing dynamics. Sorry if i'm unclear, i'm just throwing in some ideas here.
    No I completely understand. I had in my mind a vision of a huge congregation of people witnessing his death, but to be honest I'd like to stay with the lore on this. These are the only players present as the story goes, so unless I get a little too creative, I think it'll stay at four. These guys are betraying their commander, and doing it while no one is around, so greivers are out. I could have it set during the earlier battle, but that also is inacurate.

    I think the best course of action is the crop, but I was hoping it wouldn't come to that

    I'm also not too sure on the anatomy. The falling dude has issues with his arm and his calf seems a tad short. His forehead is rather big, so the perspective isn't working completely i guess. Striking me as a bit odd, is him being so big and bodybuilderlike, while still having that elvish head. The cloths also seem rather stiff and forced. The girl seems a bit mannish, the hairline is too high up. Her pose seems a bit... disinterested.
    Anatomy, what can I say I think right now the main problem is proportions, so I'll take another look at it all. The guy is an elf, but he is quite the warrior. Is his face too thin for his body size? His pal in the back is a reclusive mage, his pal on the right is a warrior-poet (explaining their less bulky weights) and his chickey is also a warrior. Can you specify hat about her sticks out as mannish?

    Now, i have no idea who these figures are, but if you're going for the death, it might be good to add some clouds and gods looking back and waving 'hi hi, we're waiting for you, dead guy' or birds or flowers, dunno, add symbolisms like those italians did with their mythological/biblical pieces.

    Like i said, just some ideas. Seems like a good start though. Interested to see where you're taking it.
    There's an idea, a 'godess' helps him become reincarnated in the future, so possibly a hint of her smiling in the sky? I'm not exactly too sure about that though, as that godess is majorly pissed at what those other 3 are about to do...

    Lots to think about, thanks! Just let me know what seems mannish about Almalexia

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    Mannish:
    - the broad shoulders. The rugby outfit isn't helping.
    - small hips.
    - small lips
    - high hairline
    - squarish face
    - she's bigger then the elf on the right, who's male. Even if he's a poet, he looks like he's gonna break if she sits on him.
    - the arm getting grabbed is disappearing in the whole view. Really have to figure out what's there before understanding.

    She needs more curves. You kinda drew her like a dude with tits. It would help if she was interacting more with dying elf. Stepping back from his grip, expressing fear or cruelty, ripping her clothes cos of the fight he gave her before she could stab him, being scared of his big size, feeling like david beating goliath.... something. Her face is so aloof and she's not doing anything with the emotions. She can be a warrior, but she's still a female. Focus on her feminity. It's pretty lost now.

    Falling elf's head seems indeed a li'l thin for the body and the features don't seem to fit. For a dying dude he seems kinda expressionless. Could also be his ears sticking up a li'l high.

    Really make them all interact more. Too emotionless overall.

    Here's an example of what i meant about gods and shit from the sky:
    http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth...rge-dragon.jpg

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    Ah, much thanks. This is all from the game morrowind, so the armor takes a bit from the game as well. Her armor does appear ingame, and I really wanted to keep it. I don't know how you make the connection from armor = man, but I'll try some new designs. I tried to kep her anatomy on the subtle side, but now I'll try to really curverize her

    She killed him to further her own plans. She should be showing a hint of anger and a hint of sadness. One for hating him (for trying to screw up her plans), one for loving him. I'm not entirely sure how to show that, but her being repulsed or enraged is not going to cut it.

    I don't want this to be an action shot, but I do want it to be interesting. I'll have to try out some poses to see what I can get out of this. In the meantime, here's a compositional update with those gods n shit (The moon and star also have significance)

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    New pose idea

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    Another baby step, redone armor and other things defined.

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    I'm not sure about the perspective here. When you have so many people, and one of them lying down, it's always a good idea to start with the horizon line and watch the perspective; otherwise, people will end up floating or stunted. The man on the right has too short legs, for example.

    I like the change to the woman on the left. She looks more involved now - in the first version I thought she was checking her wristwatch.

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    That's true, vivec (the standing guy) is in a horrible position as well, as his razor-hair is creating a horible tangent with Sotha's armor in the background. Longer legs would take care of that too, so thanks for pointing it out

    I don't think sothat's having any trouble, so I'll leave him for now. I could always just do a simple resize of him later anyway. For the most part I don't really even know where the horizon is, so I'll do some checks and see whats happening behind the mountain.

    Hehe, yeah now that I look back she was way to inanimate. I also like how all 3 weapons kind of point to nerevar, while his own weapon mimics him lying down.

    Thanks for the reply. Not sure when the next time I'll update will be... homework and all that jazz.

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    This is the first Elder Scrolls Fan Art i've seen here.

    Not too sure about the guy in the background, he'll be resting onto of a rock I presume? Since this would be considered a defing moment, what about all the other Indoril soldiers crowding around to see what's happening. And I would suggest Sotha not showing his facing, or nearly covering it, in shame.

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    I was hoping to get some ES fans here for lore help!

    I don't think I'll show sotha's face. I think it reinforces his aloof-mageness and the fact that we never get to see his face in the games (unless you consider his horribly decayed face that is)

    I'm not sure about other soldiers. I'm sure the tribunal had warriors loyal to them, but I don't think they would have let enyone know what they were about to do. I'll check some of the books though and consider it.

    EDIT: I checked at the imperial library and the main theory is that they did kill him in secret.

    Last edited by Jason Rainville; September 16th, 2006 at 01:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhineville
    For the most part I don't really even know where the horizon is, so I'll do some checks and see whats happening behind the mountain.
    Meeeeeeeep!

    Wrong answer.

    I do it all the time too, but the more complicated your scene is, the more urgently you need a horizon line. It doesn't matter if you'll see it in your actual pic, don't get me wrong! Your people could be floating in space; there's still a horizon line. That line is where the eyes of the spectator are.

    Consider this:



    In the first pic, the pigs are just floating around.

    In the second pic, they could still be in space - but they're definitely on course. The horizon and the box are just guidelines - it's easier to draw a location and put people inside it than drawing a location around a finished group of people. And it's easier to draw people with a location that without. So even if you get rid of your makeshift location later, it makes sense putting it in.

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    Haha, thank you for illustrating that with pigs. Anything else and the point would be lost on me

    Seriously though, thanks for that. Ima put that line in and check my figures as soon as I get back to this

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    This is where I call it a day, such a headache Basic colouring with a skin test on nerevar, as well as the horizon line. Nerevar and his pals are Chimer, and thus are supposed to have a golden skin. Hopefully it comes across. They are also near an active volcano, hence all the red

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    Show more of Red Mountain (or it's many dwemer towers), and some dwemer corpses, or something. Or the Heart of Lorkhan, and the Almalexia or Sotha sil, or someone like that with Kregnacs Tools. Yeah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sepulverture
    Show more of Red Mountain (or it's many dwemer towers), and some dwemer corpses, or something. Or the Heart of Lorkhan, and the Almalexia or Sotha sil, or someone like that with Kregnacs Tools. Yeah.
    No.














    jk

    That's a lot of stuff to include, and I'm already worried about clutter. dead bodies might be a good idea (would help since I suck at drawing landscapes :p), as is the tools being shown. having the heart appear... kinda impossible since they're outdoors. I don't know about more of red mountain or it's towers. One in the distance would be cool, but they're at a horrible angle to show the main complex at the top.

    Thanks for the suggestions though

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    He dosen't really look like Narevar (based on things you find in the game). Take for example the House Indoril Ordinators. Look long and hard at their masks, they are supposed to look like Lord Indoril Narevar (if I remember the games details right).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sepulverture
    He dosen't really look like Narevar (based on things you find in the game). Take for example the House Indoril Ordinators. Look long and hard at their masks, they are supposed to look like Lord Indoril Narevar (if I remember the games details right).
    Cripes you're right, I thought they were modled after vivec (hence vivec having the razor hair) Damnit, well I'll change the hair, but I'm going to keep the current nerevar as the 'embelished' nerevar....

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    Focussing on the landscape, the change in the figures would only be a minor one (with regards to lore that is) but I may even keep it. The accounts of what happened at red mountain are... well, we have no 'real' account, so who knows what nerevar or vivec looked like back then.

    ANYWAYS, Tried some stuff with the background. Clouds are looking pretty good so far, but I'm stuck with the volcano slope. Any techniques/tuts/ or ideas for creating that rocky foreground?

    EDIT: Shit, just ignore that little yellow/red splotch up in the top right corner

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    Azura in the Sky, Nerevar defined and that's all for today. why can I only work on this like, 30 minutes at a time?

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    What the hell? I thought I put the final one up. Silly Rhineville, drugs are for kids:

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    Ooo, very dramatic. I'd suggest more contrast in your colours to further heighten the drama, ie brighter reds and lighting on the people.

    Also, I don't know about the nearly square canvas, it makes the composition look really static. You might want to extend it either horizontally or vertically, depending on what you want to be the focus: the sky or the landscape? What sort of story is it?

    Figure out what's going on with the composition and you will have somewhere to go with this painting.

    Btw, I think a mob of armed people/elves/monsters etc could make a very interesting feature

    Last edited by Kaoru; September 18th, 2006 at 05:59 AM.
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    Thanks, Kaoru!

    I Know for certain the focus is the dying elve's face and more broadly the situation in the foreground. Extending the canvas? I was urged to tighten it up to draw the focus in...

    Aside from that, There are going to be others in the backround, but I'm not sure how many or where.

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    I would not put Azura in the sky like you have her now. It looks like she is staning on a rock obscured by cloud, suggesting a mortal spying on the murder. My suggestion would be to omit her or do something like just her face suggested in the sky. Right now the want to be Tribune frame Nerevar nicely in a triangle. Azura, the way you have her throws that off. Great stuff so far, can't wait to see if finished.

    oh, extend the canvas vertically to give the enhance the sugestion of Azura looking down on the murder

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    I can see that ommiting her would help focus on the tribunal, But wouldn't her face being there do the same thing?

    I don't really see her standing on a rock or 'spying' but maybe thats due to the fact that I always work close up on her and see her face... Having only her face would make it easier to see her expression, but then I'm again faced with the problem of her stealing some attention...

    I'm also weary of extending the canvas up, then everythng (including the ever important expression fo the actors) is scaled down to compensate. I'll try it though.

    Last edited by Jason Rainville; September 18th, 2006 at 01:28 PM.
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    they are all pretty stiff and flat, you should add some perspective or a different angle to mix up the depth and action

    my .02

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    Hey... I am an Elder Scroll fan and I can tell you several things. First is Vivec. He is bald and half of his body is gold and the other is ashy (like dark elves) but that comes after the murder of the nerevar so the ashy skin thing is out but I believe he is still bald and his sking fully gold. Almalexia has red hair and weird tattoo's on her stomache and her skin is gold as well. For Sotha Sil... well you never really see his face in the game, only the dead corpse you find of him when you play tribunal so I do not know much of him. As for lore wise you are pretty accurate except the location. It is believed he got murdered by his councilors inside Red Mountain after they took back the tools from Dragoth Ur. If you have any more questions feel free to ask or just look it up in the Elder Scroll Offical web site... that or buy Morrowing: Game of the Year Edition... it is only $20 I believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazelure
    Hey... I am an Elder Scroll fan and I can tell you several things. First is Vivec. He is bald and half of his body is gold and the other is ashy (like dark elves) but that comes after the murder of the nerevar so the ashy skin thing is out but I believe he is still bald and his sking fully gold. Almalexia has red hair and weird tattoo's on her stomache and her skin is gold as well. For Sotha Sil... well you never really see his face in the game, only the dead corpse you find of him when you play tribunal so I do not know much of him. As for lore wise you are pretty accurate except the location. It is believed he got murdered by his councilors inside Red Mountain after they took back the tools from Dragoth Ur. If you have any more questions feel free to ask or just look it up in the Elder Scroll Offical web site... that or buy Morrowing: Game of the Year Edition... it is only $20 I believe.
    believe me, there's some expert discussion going on at the es forums about this. This actually takes place in the sermons and for some reason outside of time, sotha needs to have a grey robe in line with a mage schooled in mysticism along with his battlemask, trueflame and hopesfire need to be in there, and vivec could have long or short hair as he did have long hair before he cut it to make some weird enchanted shirt....

    Look in the lore section of es forums and you should see the topic. The stuff that's being discussed in there is way over my head.

    EDIT: and I know they are chimer and always planned on them having golden skin (akin to the Altmer) from the start.

    Edit yet again: I really think I'm going to scrap this and try again sometime. It's been voiced that the whole comp is off. I wanted to make a formal composition, as if the actors were holding a pose, but it's not coming out the way I wanted. Not only that but Nereavr's face should be much more slight, but recent attempts to remedy it have only proven my need for more facework.

    I don't think I'm ready for this just yet, hopefully more studies and time spent planning will help...

    Last edited by Jason Rainville; September 18th, 2006 at 09:13 PM.
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    Wow... they are actually fighting over that? Well when you play Morrowind and when you meet up with Vivec he is bald so I assumed he was always bald (damn poet) and truflame and hopefire does need to be in there (the blue one belongs to Alemexia and the red one to the Nerevar) and beyond that.... well that is just beyond my comprehension of playing the game. By the way sorry about the skin thing... could not realy tell what their skin color was from the pic. Anyways good work.

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