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  1. #31
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    Hi seedling,
    Thought i would drop by and give a couple of my opinions.Hope that is ok.
    ****************************

    Internship.
    An internship is a fabulous way into the games industry , it allows you not only a dramatically increased chance of making it into the grounds of a large and popular company, but also allows you a lot of freedom and flexibility for learning the trade in the environment.
    After 6 months of an internship, your fully aware of the scheduling, expectations and limitations of the position and the company, and will be sure to learn almost everything you need to know to do your job efficiently. ( If you work hard and absorb everything ).
    I started an apprenticeship in the games industry years ago, and while the pressure is not so much on you , you get a great chance to learn and absorb everything from the super talented people that are around you. Your workload is usually reduced from what a regular employee may have, and the flexibility is there for your progression and education within the fim.
    I recommend this route for anyone who has the ambition and a solid base of good personal work, but without the experience to apply for more senior positions .

    While intern's in some companies can be open to abuse, in the fact that they can be overworked or put onto tasks such as uvmapping all day every day..A lot of companies are not like this. When you show yourself as a profficient artist, able and willing to take on larger more important tasks, usually the opportunities to do that are there.
    There will always be situations where this is not the case and interns are relegated to making coffee and fetching sandwiches, but even then , you are inside the company and ready to take on higher tasks and positions when the time arises,
    Ea and lucasarts both have internshop programs, usually lasting 3-6 months, and can put you in a position to show your profficiency, and give you a taste of the industry. But 3 months in my opinion is not long enough to grasp enough experience to move into another company when the former let you go.

    many smaller studios will take on talented interns for a lower wage, without the phone/on-site interviews, callbacks, second interviews and so on. The process is quicker, and once there.. well.. the same as previously stated.
    I'd recommend emailing and ringing around all the games studies in your area, but also take a risk and email/ring companies in other area, countries.. continents even. Sometimes a new start, in a whole different place, can really motivate you even more to make a go of the new internship. I believe this is especially true for college grads. Moving country really pushes you into believing your new life, new job, and new stage in your life has come, and you can move forward from here with a fresh outlook.

    Straight applying
    You may think to yourself that your too valuable to go for an internship, too old, or too experienced. Well applying for a regular position is just like with any other job. The less senior the position the more the company may be open to 'warm hiring', hiring on your potencial to grow within the company as an artist. Some companies have a strick no warm hire policy ( I believe Blur studios is one ) , And will only hire new people on recommendation , experience and solid kick-ass portfolio. Of course, knowing someone in the compnay is always a great way to get your foot in the door, which is why i strongly recommened networking at cg/tech/games events, keeping on top of the technology and companies in the industry, new techniques and software.


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  4. #32
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    Thanks for the help seedling. Picture this, a high school where there are only a general art 1 and 2 class that pretty much are only able to cover the basics with some elaboration in art 2. In these classes there are a number of talented students who want, need and deserve a better arts program. What courses do you think would be the best?

  5. #33
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    Zaknafain – Awesome! I hope you will share your progress here.
    Darkwolfb87 – did that answer your questions on internships?
    Jtran – Okie dokie, I’ve added that to my list of topics. Good thing I haven’t tossed the stack of Game Developer magazines just yet. Thanks, and stay tuned.
    LadyHydralisk – Textures are made in every conceivable way. I would love to hear a play-by-play of the games courses you are taking, by the way.
    NoSeRider – you can’t throw a celestial rat around here without hitting someone’s three-headed dragon.
    Jhartford – Woot! Thank you for chiming in. Please feel free to add more to this thread. The more industry insiders who join in, the better a resource this will be for folks wanting to get into the industry.
    Woodbert – I’m going to have to think a bit on that . . . too sleepy tonight to give you good answers. . .
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.

  6. #34
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    Composition

    Whether you are a concept artist painting color sketches of a game level, or a modeler/texturer building the silhouette of a spiky suit of armor, an animator figuring out the extreme poses of a three-headed dragon in its death throes, or a level designer setting up a landscape so that you get a luscious view when you round the corner with your guns blazing – if you do any of those things, then you need to have a basic knowledge of composition. For this, we’re going low-tech.

    *******Assignment #7 - Composition*******

    Go forth and spend a buck-fifty on a glue stick and a pad of construction paper. Grab some scissors, roll up the carpet, and turn up your favorite tunes. It’s time to make some non-representational art.

    Here’s the drill. Pick out four sheets of construction paper. Cut each of those into four smaller rectangles of the same aspect ratio.

    In the next hour, I want you to turn each of those sixteen little rectangles into a small collage. Tear paper, cut paper, stick it together with glue-stick and trim the edges. Don’t fuss over any one of them. The goal is to try different crazy things just to see what happens. Try minimalism. Try confetti. It’s about using color and shape to move the eye around, and it’s about finding what works through trial and error.

    Ding! Time’s up. Line up your collages and take a good look. What works? What doesn’t work? Is there one that you would stick to your fridge with a magnet so that you could ponder it a bit longer? Is there one that makes you think “ugh, straight to the trash”? Why do you have these reactions? What it is that’s pleasing or not pleasing in these scraps of cheap randomness?

    ********#7 B*********

    Pick a game from your collection, and play through to some point that you find particularly pleasing to the eye. Take a screenshot, pause the game, or just make sure you’re parked somewhere that a monster won’t maul your level 20 masticator. And roll up the carpet again.

    This time, I want you to replicate the composition that you see on the screen. Use that same old cheap construction paper. Don’t try to make a perfect paper-doll of your character – just hack out an approximate shape. Use big blocks of color – no agonizing over details. Don’t worry that the colors don’t match so well. Don’t spend too much time on this.

    The final product shouldn’t be identifiable to anyone but you, because, in theory, you have reduced that complex image to its essentials. It’s so abstract that all that remains is composition.

    What works about this composition, and what doesn’t work? What works or doesn’t work about the colors and the patterns?

    Keep this as quick and fun as the first time. Repeat it a few times with different scenes or different games. Or venture forth from games and try it with photographs or paintings.

    Be sure to sweep the floor and wipe up stray glue when you are done.
    Last edited by Seedling; October 7th, 2006 at 10:31 AM.

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  8. #35
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    LadyHydralisk – Textures are made in every conceivable way. I would love to hear a play-by-play of the games courses you are taking, by the way.
    Ok when I update my sketchbook I will try to add all of the nitty gritty, such as essays they make us do and so on. I'll also recape what I've been doing since January (my freshman starting month)

    Great exercise in composition! I would never have thought of using composition like that in a game! I always regretted that this didn't get covered at the CRA as a rule, I always struggled with composition, bordering on paralysis.

    I already have black construction paper and a glue stick on hand, I have kids. Omg they are going to love this, after they are done being banned from drawing on the marble table with glitter glue yesterday.
    ---- -
    sehertu mannu narāṭu ina pānāt šagapīru ningishzidda
    abrahadabra

  9. #36
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    Hello, thank you so much for posting as you did in Seedling's game industry advice thread jharford. That sort of in-depth viewpoint is very valuable and greatly appreciated. Big thanks as well to seedling for starting this thread, and posting all the informative and helpful information (and for humouring us with the PM bombardment).

    As far as cold calling goes, would it be considered unprofessional to e-mail a company out of the blue asking about what they have set up, and where one can go about applying? From what I gather, alot of companies do not really advertise for interns, and often these sorts of positions are hidden away from the average job seeker. The website disclaimers politely asking people to avoid making unsolicited calls, and professional culture overall, would seem to deter this sort of thing?

    As well, aren't internships usually reserved for fresh graduates? I don't consider myself too good for such a role at all, quite the opposite, and would humbly welcome such an opportunity. As an older guy, though, and with zero professional or practical industry experience, how inclined are companies to take a look? It seems even less likely, the farther (geographically) one is from said company, that they'd consider it. Forgive me if the tone seems argumentative, that's certainly not what I want to convey considering you've taken the time to post all this great information. I'm earnestly wanting to know where to go to find these sorts of spots, to get an opportunity somewhere.

    Thanks alot for taking the time guys, it really helps outsiders like me.

    Cheers

  10. #37
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    More on Internships

    Hiya Shaolin!

    Mmm. . .comp day! Our team had to do some crunching a little while ago, and in compensation they gave us today and Monday off. So I am doing some painting and being an internet monkey. Woo!

    To answer your questions – I don’t think it is unprofessional or unreasonable to contact a company in order to ask about internship opportunities. After all, the information may only be available from the source. Just make sure that you are polite in your request. If the company’s main phone number leads to an answering service, then don’t start dialing similar numbers in the hope that you’ll hit a real person – because chances are you’ll dial my desk and I’ll be befuddled and annoyed and unable to help you.

    The other option is to go ahead and send a portfolio (or a link to an on-line portfolio) and resume and a cover letter saying you are looking for an internship, and follow up with a phone call a couple of weeks later.

    I don’t know of any internships that are reserved for fresh graduates, though I suppose it’s possible. We don’t have such limits. Our oldest intern’s children were all grown up when she joined us. She switched over from a career of costume-design and costume-making, and was taken aboard to design costumes for our characters. She learned Maya and Photoshop on the job, and was long ago promoted to a full-time modeler/texturer.

    Geographic distance from a company can lower your chances. Sometimes a company needs low-hassle hire in a hurry, and in that case, you just may not fit the bill. But then maybe you are exactly what the company is looking for, even though getting you there will be inconvenient.

    If you really are hot stuff, you might even get lucky enough that a company will create an internship just to get you on board. We did once create an internship specifically for someone with whom I had gone to college. Because his drawing skills were phenomenal, and because I was able to vouch for his incredibly good work ethic, he was offered a position that hadn’t previously existed.
    Last edited by Seedling; October 7th, 2006 at 10:31 AM.

  11. #38
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    Game Industry Salaries

    To celebrate tax season, every April Game developer Magazine publishes the results of a survey of game developer salaries. Here they are:

    The typical salary for a game animator or artist with less than three years experience is $45,675. For artists and animators with three to six years experience, that number goes up to $61,065, and greater than six years is $69,457. The totals are higher for lead artists and art directors. (But please note that there is no data on lead artists or art directors in the less-than-three-year category, presumably because there are none.)

    Game designers make slightly less, and programmers make a good bit more. Quality Assurance (game testers) with less than three years experience can expect to make about $24,797.

    This reminds me that I should actually read more of these magazines, instead of just letting them stack up in the bathroom.
    Last edited by Seedling; October 7th, 2006 at 10:32 AM.

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  13. #39
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    Maya Versus Max Versus Other

    When it comes to 3D art programs, there’s Maya, there’s 3D studio Max, and there are other various programs. Which one should you learn? It depends. Some companies use one, some companies use another. Some companies have different teams that are each working with a different tool.

    When it comes to getting hired, some companies will need an employee who absolutely knows a specific program. Others will have the resources to train a new hire with whatever program they are using.

    An no, you don’t get to pick which software you use as a 3D artist, that I know of. (Though things can be a little more flexible with 2D programs and plug-ins for 3D programs.)

    So, do you learn a little of as many 3D programs as possible, or do you throw all of your eggs in one basket? Well, I’m afraid I can’t answer that for you. But I will point out that you will need to learn at least one program well enough to create samples for your portfolio. And that if you want to be an artist, you also should be sure not to neglect your fine-arts education in favor of learning tools.

    If you have a favorite company that you would like to someday work for, then it might be in your benefit to find out what software they use.

    A note about 3D programs: there are so very many buttons! So many tools-within tools! It’s so overwhelming! Here’s my secret: I only know how to use about 5% of Maya. That’s all you need to do professional low-poly modeling.

    In other words, figure out what you need to accomplish your 3D goals, and then do not waste your time learning the rest of the 3D program. Because, seriously, you could spend months just gaining an understanding of every blasted button - and then never use those buttons. Your time is better spent doing figure drawing, unless you are interested in being a technical artist.

    It used to be that Maya was available only to professionals, due to it costing about as much as a small car. That meant that students had only two options: find a class that taught Maya, which was a rare find; or, learn on a pirated copy. The makes of Maya finally addressed the hypocrisy of forcing their future users into stealing the program by releasing a free learning version, which, I suspect, can be downloaded from their website. The learning version has a giant, ugly watermark across the screen. However I can assure you that if you submit a portfolio that includes samples with the watermark, you won’t be thought any less of for it. It tells the company that you don’t use pirated software.

    I don’t know if Max has a free student version.

    If anyone has links to sites where free 3D programs can be downloaded, feel free to share!

    On a final note, it is fairly standard when going from one company to another to have to learn a new program. It is very typical for a new employee with several years experience to whimper and whine that “it wasn’t like this in Max! This is confusing! Argh!”
    Last edited by Seedling; October 7th, 2006 at 10:32 AM.

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  15. #40
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    From Observation to Concept Art

    Drawing or painting from life is like eating your vegetables: sometimes it just makes you want to whine “I don’t wanna!” while lusting after ice cream. However, unless you are willing to push forward with life drawings, then your drawings from imagination are likely not to improve much, either.

    *******assignment #8 – From Observation to Concept Art*******

    Find a real-life object that is made up of one or more interesting materials. Light it, and draw or paint it. Make your rendition of the object be as realistic and life-like as possible. If you are painting, then focus on colors. If you are drawing in black and white, focus on rendering details that reveal what the material is.

    Done with that? Spiffy. Now come up with something out of your imagination that is made of the same materials. If what you painted was made of metal, you could design a suit of armor or a robot. If it was cloth, perhaps a costume would do. Wood? How about some wooden machine with gears and whatnot. Get creative.

    Now do a second drawing or painting of this thing you have dreamed up. Use your still-life as reference for your colors or details. Try as hard as possible to get the quality of your from-imagination piece to match that of the still-life.

    If you like the results you got from this exercise, repeat it with different materials to build up your own internal materials library.
    Last edited by Seedling; October 7th, 2006 at 10:33 AM.

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  17. #41
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    Game Design

    There are three general categories of jobs involved in game-making: artists, programmers, and game designers. Artists make the game pretty, programmers make the game go, and designers make the game fun.

    Most of what I know about game design I’ve learned by osmosis, so it isn’t the best information ever, but it’s better than what I know about programmers. (As far as I can tell, programmers type lines of voodoo and brackets, and poof, there’s a game!) At any rate, a little second-hand info about game design might be useful to you, so I’ll add what I know to this pile, and if a real game designer comes along and fills in the details, great!

    By the way, I know artists in some other industries go by the term “designer”, but in the games industry the term really doesn’t apply to the artists, except for the few oddballs who have one foot in art in the other in game-design.

    Designers work in spreadsheets and word documents. Sometimes they have to know some programming, and (at our company) they are in charge of assembling the assorted bits and pieces of art into playable areas.

    At this point I should probably add that I’m one of those oddballs with a foot in art and a foot in design. I’ve been building landscapes for our game for some time, and on Tuesday I’ll be moving from a desk on the artist’s side of the room to a desk on the designer’s side. So hopefully my pathetic knowledge of what game designers do will increase.

    Anyway. . . getting into game design from the art team is rather indirect and odd. The typical route is. . . well, there isn’t. Even more so than with art, there is no such thing as a college course that leads tidily into game design, that I know of. A typical game designer went to college to study something else, and while he was at it he played a lot of games and got into running D&D campaigns and modding* computer games.

    Working on an indy game project is, from what I understand, a great way to prepare for a career as a game designer. And modding. I have asked the designers repeatedly what advice I should pass along to students wanting to learn this stuff, and they always say modding. Designers aren’t required to show portfolios, but I don’t think it could hurt for a potential designer to have a portfolio of one or more well-put-together mods.

    Aside from that, I know of one guy who wrote his thesis paper on Massively Multiplayer Online RPG’s, and I know of three guys who founded their own tiny little company, worked for a time on their own MMORPG, and then used that as leverage to get designer and programmer jobs all together, as a team.

    Traditionally (not that an industry so young can have much in the way of tradition) people also work their way into the design department from QA – Quality Assurance. Otherwise known as Game Testers. Those poor souls have to sit in the dark and play unfinished and not-yet-working bits of games over and over and over and over, and then write up reports on what’s broken. I have all sorts of admiration for game testers, because I could not do what they do and remain sane. However, it isn’t a bad role for someone in need of an entry-level job and willing to start at the bottom and work up.

    From what I understand, QA departments have a hard time holding on to experienced testers, because the pay is low and because so many of them use it as a stepping-stone to design. So there’s another opportunity for those eyeing the games industry for any opportunity: lead game tester.

    **********Assignment #9 – Game Mod**********

    Make a game mod. Go!

    Okay, that’s a pitiful set of directions, and I apologize. I’ve never made a game mod, and I couldn’t tell you the first thing about how to get started making one. But if it weren’t so much like what I’m already doing at work, I suspect I would be doing it for fun.

    One thing, though. If it’s game *art* you want to make for a living, then it may not be worth your while to get deeply into modding. A little modding could probably teach you a lot about the overall process of game-making, and about how art is used in games. But if modeling characters is what you really want to be doing, then focus on learning how to make the best dang characters you possibly can. Be cautious about getting significantly sidetracked by fun activities.




    *Some games ship with tools that allow you to build your own modules out of the game engine and art assets. Such player-assembled versions of the games are called “mods”.
    Last edited by Seedling; October 7th, 2006 at 10:33 AM.

  18. #42
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    Shucks. . . I guess my bad breath scared everyone away. . .
    I think you are awesome, and I wish you the best in your endeavors, but I am tired of repeating myself, I am very busy with my new baby, and I am no longer a regular participant here, so please do not contact me to ask for advice on your career or education. All of the advice that I have to offer can already be found in the following links. Thank you.

    Perspective 101, Concept Art 101, Games Industry info,Oil Paint info, Acrylic Paint info, my sketchbook.

  19. #43
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    Shucks. . . I guess my bad breath scared everyone away. . .
    No way. This is just great information that everyone has to maul over. I guess you are covering everything so well that no one else needs to chime in.

    But I totally agree with what Stupidity'sUglyHead said:
    No matter what school you go to, you will get out what you put in. A good attitude, and a need to do art as strong as breathing are what I recommend.
    I read that you wanted to know what LadyHydralisk's course were like. I also am going for a "game design" degree at the Art Institute. Much like Full Sails, I expect, in that it produces technical artist...only crappy ones. The courses are somewhat not art oriented and are very 3D heavy. Every year there are more and more drawing class cut from the curriculum...I think we are down to about three or four??? Like mentioned earlier, you get what you put in. I draw mch outside of school and it really helps but unfortunatly 99% of the other student do not.

  20. #44
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    Alright, first off, you rock. I have been researching game developement, colleges, books, art, resumes, and everything about concept art for the past year. I have sent emails everywhere, to colleges, game dev companies, and modders. Everyone not in the industry was always quick to respond. No one in the industry has responded to anything I have sent. So to have someone 'in' helping those not 'in' is truely unique...thank you from all of us noobs.

    Helpful things I have discovered:




    www.gamecareerguide.com - This is an offshoot of the popular game developer magazine. Its still really new so its not visited much but I think thsi will become a core for noobs to get help on becoming developer ready. You can also come up with a fake companie and get free subscriptions delivered to your house...I don't think its illegal and the informaiton is....invaluable...

    Modding games is awesome experience. The game dev section of conceptart is a great place to start, the next best thing to do is pick a game you enjoy and google mod teams for that specific game. Every game has some sort of a mod community.

    Most game developers are elitists...who own noobs so much they don't talk to us...ever...

    Things I wonder about at night...

    Is the game industry saturated? Honestly, does it need anymore concept artists?

    Should I be really really good at just concept art, or should I learn basic 3D modeling and some programing and take some game theory courses? I have gotten mixed responses from people on this topic.

    I have an online portfolio (a real sad excuse for a portfolio) www.anabele.deviantart.com and its composed of entirely finished polished drawings...should I toss some rough 20 minute life drawings in there or some abstract graphic design posters?

    I am thinking about spend some money on books from www.cgsociety.org on concept art, matte painting, and character design for games. Is it worth my time or should I just draw my hand one hundred times...

    I love drawing guns, ships, cars, guns, and metal pointy things. I suck at drawing environments, anatomy, and organic stuff...should I be a jack of all trades or just try to get hired as a real specific concept artist...

    Final question. I figured out real fast that concept art schools, majors, or classes don't exist...so I went to the cheapest school with a digital arts illustration degree I could find...I have yet to regret this...in any case...should I be putting all my time and effort into my course work or concentrating on the stuff I do outside of the classes, which is more concept arty...if that doesnt make sense let me know....its hard to talk for me sometimes ....

    Okay I cheated...Hows is music handled in games? As in, is it a permanent department? If I love remixing techno would that be something I would want to put into my portfolio?...Long story short I have been yelled at by employers for not telling them every skill I have retained throughout my life...or will that just bog down the resume...

    Do you think you could put a link up to your resume/portfolio so us noobs know what we need to do to make the cut...

    And to end this wonderful spewing of questions frustrations and muttered curses, I would again like to thank you for all the time and effort you put into caring about we the down-trodden noobs...

  21. #45
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    i still don't understand why this thread is A; not stickified, and B; doesnt have ten stars.

    all i can say is its great that somebody is sharing this and takes the time to write this all down. i personally do not desire a position in the field but appreciate the info nonetheless. very interesting to see how people from different industries work in their field.

    so a big thanks and props to seedling - i think it just needs time to grow for people to become aware.
    edit - is it in the wrong section? i mean, it's in the right section but not if this is to be discovered by a big group of people. people are a bit lazy browsing to different sections in the forums. how about the 'fine art studies & discovery' or 'education and learning' sections?
    Last edited by tensai; September 18th, 2006 at 04:51 AM.
    tensai


    check the Tensai Tokyo Sketch Thread (Sketchbook)

    check the Tensai Cityscapes Thread (Finally Finished)



    Quote Originally Posted by strych9ine
    Fuck backgrounds, who needs em.

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