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September 8th, 2006 #1
Looking for help & feedback: industrial-type composition
Well, I gave up on fish eye perspectives for now [cough] and decided to draw something with an interesting composition and colour contrast.
Basically, I have three ideas for the composition, but I can't seem to get any of them right. I wanted to try and sort of use the machinery as a partial framing maybe, or block out most of the water as the brightness of it distracts from the window.
This is very much a WIP, and I [once again] made the mistake of starting with the character instead of the composition as a whole. *sigh* But anyway. She will be holding some sort of energy ball later on, after I get the composition right.
The setting is meant to be semi-sci-fi, semi-industrial, so i tried to put in some [possibly broken] machinery.
Please help me? x_x
Wanted to get a nice thumbnail thing going
Last edited by Kaoru; September 19th, 2006 at 09:02 PM.
Hide this ad by registering as a memberSeptember 8th, 2006 #2
Love the machinery... You could add cool reflections on the metal to keep things interresting. Especially when you put in the sphere.
September 8th, 2006 #3
Having machinery in there helps, but honestly nothing about this piece says "industrial" to me. Try making the window transparent/semi transparent and show a real industrial scene outside maybe. Take and make just a few quick sketches, 10 or so minutes each, of the composition including the character, try adding and taking away some things with each sketch. It will come together.
Edit: Looking at this again i see you did thetransparent window thing, but it's really not that apparent at a glance. Compositionally, the girl seems to be the focus of the picture, so you should try to move her OUT of the center of the picture. The comp is rather boring with her just sitting there in the middle like that. Adding some reds and oranges in also would help to create a bit of diversity colorwise, which should help to perk it up a bit, and the additional light sources would help to create some interesting effects by way of reflected light, as well as helping with the overall contrast you mentioned (the cool blue versus the warm red/orange).
I think you should try to mix the two pictures you show there. The texture in the first one on the ground looks cool. It would be interesting to see those textures on the wall around the window. And on the girl (this may just be a personal thing) You may want to ease up on the ribs there. MAybe it's just me, but that makes her look a bit anerexic, which is totally unsexy.
Last edited by Sepulverture; September 8th, 2006 at 12:39 PM.
September 8th, 2006 #4
I'm not sure that it was a good idea to give up on the perspective, because it has come back and disconnected her left leg and placed it several feet further than it would otherwise be. The perspective, along with a natural angle of incidence are also going to impact the light shining on the floor. Right now it appears to be a circle somewhat smaller than the window (which won't happen and have these results), but it really appears more to be a shadow cast from a simialr window directly above. Now, if you're going to cover it, it's not an issue, but remember to have the stuff reacting to the window (and don't be afraid to add some warm lighting on our side).
I assume that you're going to fix her right hand; because if that's her thumb, she has some serious wrist problems. Her foot, too, is tiny and not reacting to her kneeling on the floor (Google "kneel" and you'll see some good images).
I can't see enough of the mechanical stuff to really help, but I will say that it might give more depth were some of the bits to cover the figure (just in a couple small places to establish the relationship).
There a certainly a lot of cool things going on here, though. The composition has some strong potential and who doesn't like a hot chick's mid-riff?
September 8th, 2006 #5
Marty666 - Thank you! Yeah, I think I might even make the "sphere" a different colour or something. I keep on having this urge to add more red to the image.
Sepulveture - Yeah, I suppose I should make the scene that's visible through the window more pronounced. But then I don't want it to distract from the overall shape of the window. *dilemma* Thanks for reminding me about her ribs, too; I always fill the figure with loose brushstrokes, and sometimes it turns out to make too sharp of a contrast. Anyway you can relax now, I have fixed the rib problem!!
dogfood - Hello again! Yeah, I know what you mean about the knee/leg... I've been battling with it for a while now. I suppose I will just have to lower it. Yup, I'm fixing the right hand. I've actually not drawn all of her fingers there; it's meant to be an open palm, the sphere will sort of be resting on it. Thank you so much for your help!
*goes to Google*
September 8th, 2006 #6
lol when i saw the window i thought of star wars... any ways if what i say matters than to me the pose looks a little strange
September 8th, 2006 #7
Well, I've fiddled around with the composition and kind of fixed her legs.
Haven't decided yet on where I'm going to add the red... I plan to work on the scene visible through the window.
Do you think I should have some parts sticking out over the window? Hmm.
September 8th, 2006 #8
Definetly getting there, now she looks to be more present in the eviroment (vs the floating as it was before). I still don't feel like she is "actually" sitting there, but that can be fixed with putting together a good enviroment composition.
I'll throw a quick enviro up when I get home to show you. .
I agree with Sepulverture on the colours, definetly needs more colours to help guide the eye around (can be done once a good comp is established).
September 8th, 2006 #9
This scene still isn't really telling me "industrial". It is saying something more like "future science/research facility with an outdoors loading dock". You should see if you can't find some good references of industrial parks, and the insides of industrial plants. One thing that really takes away from the industrial feel is the calm blue color you used. Industrial facilities are typically loud, chaotic places with lots of dangerous machinery and exposed moving parts (this is coming from experience in working in a variety of industrial manufacturing and resource extraction facilities.. oil rigs, saw mills, and coal mines). Some of your machinery could have red lights on them. Or there can be things like caged red lights mounted on the walls. Adding some brown texturing to the machinery you have there would help a bit as well (brownish red for used, and rusty metal). Pipes, tubes, liquid spills (oh man i could tell you storie about that). Stuff dripping out of connections in the pipes. Things like this will really help to bring your environment together. I'm looking forward to seeing this one finished, because i myself am a big fan of industrial environs.
P.S. THIS is a good site for some inspiration.
September 9th, 2006 #10
I've spent some more time fiddling around with this [after becoming braindead after 1.5 hours of maths study...]
Bet you would have never guessed I was going to draw a water level. XD I'm strange like that!
Going to add some cracks and leakages in the glass later. Not exactly sure if I'm getting the perspective under the water right, but I will be working on that too.
Sepulverture - Thank you so much for the links! Very inspirational. I don't know if I'm going to draw moving parts, since everything is kind of submerged in water, but I'm going to try to draw some mechanical assembly-line type things. I'm going to add some caged red fires after I more or less figure out the composition. [To be honest, I already quickly tried it out and I like the contrast very much. Must be careful not to over-do it though].
Attila The Hun - Yeah, I know. XD I realised that after I sketched it. It doesn't really have that retro feel to it anymore though. Ah well. XD
Rayk - Hey! Yeah, I'm planning to add some warm colours to link her to "our side" of the picture. Possibly when I add another light source it will look more unified... Ahh I'm so glad I joined CA.
I'm hungry. o_o
September 9th, 2006 #11
Your update works a lot more.
However, I have a feeling that cyan isn't the right color for this. Perhaps an orange, even sepia tone would really make this one more industrial and insense, no?
September 9th, 2006 #12
I can't wait till I see the mechanix!! That said...the right foot needs to point in, it is more an esthetic element since it flows with the leg, with that foot popping out it fights the flow...other than...love the water too!!
September 9th, 2006 #13
Ok, I did a quick enviro fix up (more like idea) like I promised.
First one is your one, based on the placement of objects I tried looking for a vanishing point, to me it seems the perspective is off.
Second picture is if you put one vanishing point behind her, also move her slightly to the left so that the window can act as a framing device. I still feel that the composition is very cramped, but play around with shapes like I have and you should find one that you like. Hope it helps.
September 9th, 2006 #14
Rayk - Thank you so much!! Now I have an idea about how to work on the perspective.
Please tell me if this is totally wrong. o_o
Last edited by Kaoru; September 9th, 2006 at 10:50 AM.
September 9th, 2006 #15
You should justify the hard light she has on her.
Also the circular element behind is not giving depth at all, it is making the whole thing a lot more flat than it should.
The girl is well done though, just address those issues.
Also the perspective of things could be more interesting, the dead on, radial perspective doesn't cut it for me IMO.
DON'T CLICK THIS
September 9th, 2006 #16
September 10th, 2006 #17
I don't think it's overall a bad composition at all. It doesn't really need anything *changed* just added in I may be out of my lane here so anyone feel free to sound off at me!
The first thing I did was enlarge the canvas a bit to get a bit more breathing room. that changed the relative size of the character in relation to the canvas. It also gets her thirded nicely into the frame (positionally on the horizontal and sillouette in the vertical) and gives the central architectural element (window) framed up nicely in the top half of the image.
I then adjusted the pipes on the ceiling and added some stuff in the foreground to form a frame on either end of the long axis. once happy with that I took a look at the narrative requirement; the room is flooded and she's in a sort of 'battle pose'. It seems to me that if she's trying to stay out of the water she'd need a good reason to; so I made her power fire elemental. the fireball placed in the inner circle opposite of where her head is for symmetry.
The room is underwater, so perhaps it's not just flooded but flooding. The reason being she's in battle and tossing fireballs around, so a few leaks here and some burninating there, put a couple leaky cracks in the window and we gots something a bit more solid
I tweaked the color to contrast the flame a bit more.
The one thing I didn't tackle is her skin color, which seems quite radiant actually. I would actually say why not go off the wall and make her glow? I mean she's magicool after all ;D
Hope that helps!
September 11th, 2006 #18
Machineabuse - Thank you so much for helping me with the composition! It's not really as cluttered anymore. *phew* I think... And I changed the colours a bit, so that the shadowing on the character is the same as on the rest of the objects. I still have to work on the lighting though and develop the bottom left fire into a better shape.
Ahh this is such a handful But I've learned lots of things! Will be adding some orange lighting on her legs next to the flame.
It suddenly set itself on fire. o_o
Not exactly sure how to draw water, but I hope I will figure it out...
September 12th, 2006 #19
Worked on the fire a bit! I don't know if I should keep it red or fully orange... also, don't pay attention to the lighting on her legs, that's still being developed.
September 12th, 2006 #20
I must again voice my opinion that there is inbalance with the centre of attention.
The entire scene is a frame. The machinery, the platform, the window, everything. It's quite a symmetrical scene, and therefore wants to lead our eye dead centre. My eye is led there, but I'm really not sure what I'm supposed to be looking at - the fireball, or here eyes. Furthermore her body is almost completely on the right side of the centre of the page with nothing on the left to balance it out. Her legs even point us right.
I know everyone thinks otherwise, but I honestly think that you need to rework the relationship between her face, her body and the fireball to regain the balance. I know it's only one voice of many, and I know you've probably commited to the pose already, but I ask that you just try a few things before you move ahead, just to see if the outcome may sway your opinion;
- Try placing somthing behind her, that is, something she is leaning on. The extra mass could counter the right-leaning aspect of her body. There would be a solid base and two points of interest at the top - the fireball and her eyes.
- have her facing us. Have her arms bent in front of her holding the fireball close to her chest. The warm glow could increase the interest in her face and allow for a more symmetrical design.
- have her sitting on her as, leaning backwards (to our left or right) on the platform. one hand is used to hold her steady as the other holds the fireball.
I really like this piece and I'd hate for you to work on something that in my opinion is flawed. Only a suggestion, but a strong one.
September 17th, 2006 #21
I didn't reall have much time in the past few days [had to work on my VA body of work... blargh], but here's something I quickly altered yesterday.
Rhineville - I thank you for your extensive comment. However, I don't think I want to alter the composition to make it look completely dead-on symmetrical. That would make it cliche and even more less interesting than it is now. XD; As long as both sides have similar composition elements, they don't need to be mirrored exactly, right?
To make it slightly more dynamic and balanced I decided I should change her leg position.
Still to come: water streaming out of pipes, etc. Any other suggestions appreciated All will be taken into consideration! XD
September 17th, 2006 #22
September 17th, 2006 #23
Her foot is still buggin me...other than, I love what you're doin' with it..
My mind shall idle, and the devil shall call...
September 17th, 2006 #24
It seems that you are missing some reflective light from the fires in front of her. It seems as though those flames are not giving any light.
September 18th, 2006 #25
I like very of the colors. the illumination this great. I only feel lack of a little of light in the black part. Type one "teffon" o.o
September 20th, 2006 #26
The composition is great, I can't crit this part.
Lighting is not to my taste but you're working on it still right? IMO the yellow highlights are too sharp on her.
You rendered the water great, but her skin and hair and othe details in the picture are unfinished.
Also be careful with her joints, particularly in the knee area, possibly study a ref a bit more. Also the butt seems to stick out too much. Right now the hair covers up her shoulder joint but I think you might have an issue there too.
Can't wait to see it finished.
September 20th, 2006 #27
Rhineville - Bwahaha, my baby XD Nicely put. Thanks for your feedback again~
Sidistyk - For some reason I can't get it to look right when I turn it, it looks either chopped off or non-existant. So... any help?
Henglong - Yup, thank you very much! Working on those at the moment.
Gisaiagami - Glad you like it It's far from finished though.
n1va - Yeah, I know what you mean about knees... I'm trying to find some reference pictures, but looks like I will have to take my own photos. Google is useless in terms of photos of kneeling people. Hmm, I haven't really drawn any pictures with two very sharp lights, so I might diffuse the yellow light on her a bit. Not touching the blue light!!
Here's what I've done today [around 30 minutes of trying to get it to look less like a table... *cough*]
September 22nd, 2006 #28
heres what I was seeing...
My mind shall idle, and the devil shall call...
September 22nd, 2006 #29
I don't know if this has been mentioned already but her breasts appear to be placed on a different plane to her rib cage. Also i feel you can lengthen her right arm just a little.
Looks much better now that you've fixed the left leg. And that fire is FABULOUS!
September 22nd, 2006 #30
Sidistyk - Oh, I see what you mean! Alright, I'll try to work on it tomorrow.
JERI - Hm, if you mean her raised arm, I have to agree with you. Not sure about her chest though. Will be attempting to fix!
For now, an attempt to draw some lighting from the fire. Will probably dull it down a bit.
The wire is on fire! Wow, I rhyme... time for bed. =_=''