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  1. #511
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    Now I show the WIP at the level where both the green and orange prefab .gih brushes have been applied and I have painted some lines with the paintbrush where the color has been set to a gradient that features purples. Everything is in different layers to facilitate cleanup with the eraser as needed. I can see a purple line where I forgot to erase it off some blue. I'll have to go fix that now.
    Name:  penultimate.jpg
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    Below I think is done except for going through at high magnification and cleaning out all the little boogers of stuff that isn't supposed to be there. I'll save the final at larger dimensions because it seems like the way it's done over in Environment of the Week.
    Name:  last WIP.jpg
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    Final:
    Name:  EOW113_arttorney.jpg
Views: 473
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    Last edited by arttorney; May 29th, 2009 at 06:13 PM.
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  3. #512
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    Hey man.

    An impressive amount of work you have in here.

    I just wanted to pop in and just say some things.

    I think that the quality of your work seems to be really inconsistent, and its almost like when you do a study you dont retain most of that knowledge you should have learnt from it. This seems to be because you rush and dont think about what you are doing.

    Am i right in the thinking that you know more art theory than you know how to apply with your own work?

    Slow down and think; and if just simply slowing down there are a few things you can try. Write a list of the things you know you are constantly doing incorrectly, and as you draw run your eyes over it and ask your self if you are repeating these mistakes. Be brutal with your self. If you think that you partly fixed it, that isnt good enough, if you didnt fix it redo it till you do.

    I guess the main point i want to get across is the idea that you shouldnt be calling an image finished until you dont have any crits for yourself because what good can we do if we are just pointing out the things that you know already.

    I really hope you keep up with this and start to produce some amazing works!

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  4. #513
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    Well, I suppose you must be right about the part concerning knowing more than I can actually execute. I probably spent thirty hours drawing perspective boxes and gridding referenced images into that Dracula's Castle drawing. Then the crits I got were that I should have used perspective boxes and reference. No duh.

    I am very deeply upset that it does not seem to matter how much time I put in, or how much I go over and over the same drawing. It still looks good to me when everybody on CA thinks it sucks and tells me the thing I should have done is the exact thing that I did. This is why I am becoming convinced there is something really wrong with my eyes or the visual centers of my brain. I am not perceiving things in conformity with the apparent consensus outlook of the world.

    Similarly, I took a reference picture of an articulable drawing dummy and measured all distances and angles both on the reference and on the computer screen as I drew it on there (I mean with ruler and protractor and calculator). Then I get told the perspective is off. The whole world I am seeing as I go through my day to day life is apparently off. Luckily, I haven't crashed anybody while I was driving lately. I wonder why that is.

    It is frustrating for me that I like what I draw. Others don't like what I draw. Therein lies the rub. I love that Cyberspace I just drew. I am certain I will get no votes and several people will tell me the perspective is off. Then I will stew a few hours over wondering how on Earth the perspective can be off on a non-objective drawing. I am on the road and I'm on a library computer, so I have no further artwork to offer until next week. Sorry.

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  5. #514
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    I don't think perspective is that important for the kind of stuff you do. Maybe some research into composition and color theory would be more appropriate.
    It seems you like to draw, to experiment. Imo you should just continue to do your thing. As long as you like what you do, everything else doesn't matter much.

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  6. #515
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    .............. fair point. Although I would never say your work sucks. Let me talk off the top of my head, cos I haven't really thought this argument out, but it's bits of what are going through my head at the moment. I'm sure you can find research material that will go through this in more depth and detail.

    <cut rambling>

    I don't want to ramble off topic. But there's nothing wrong with "Cyberspace" up above. I think that these pieces you do are pretty cool.

    <cut more rambling>

    I had to edit this post when I got up. It was unhelpful and uninformed and only came out cos I was having a bad day yesterday and was trying to help you from the perspective of a fried mind that needed sleep. Now that I've had some, let me say that alesoun's response (below) is far more lucid and far more helpful than my ravings.

    Last edited by donalfall; June 7th, 2009 at 01:40 AM. Reason: rambling gobbledegook
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  7. #516
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    Okies, Arttorney. I like your landscapes, but I see that you have problems with drawing people. Howzabout we do some work together? You're not going to be around for a week, but you might see this anyway. Why don't I do a sketch of you and show each step on the way, and you do the same? I'm busy right now, but give me a day or two; I'll go first. Don't go giving up on me, now.....

    Sorry, it's gonna be trad, because I really suck at digital.

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  8. #517
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    I appreciate all the input I have been getting lately and I can see that people really want to help. I wish I could be more helpful in my own cause, but a lot of things are going on in my life right now and none of them are good. Perhaps the worst part of it is that the evil I see is not a grand respectable kind of evil. Rather, it is the contemptible result of people being too lazy and stupid to live a proper life.

    It'll be next Wednesday afternoon before I can return to drawing.

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  9. #518
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    Well, I had a cancellation of a court half day and so I could continue forward with something I had decided to do last week. Don't worry Alesoun. I would be happy to try to draw people with you. It's not so much about whether I will give up. It's about whether or not I will care about certain things.

    I have been out of the loop in the gallery scene for too long and I have a digital art gallery convenient to me. I liked my first effort at GIMP abstraction and wish to prepare several more image pipes. These are made by throwing some random shapes of construction paper on a scanner. Below each of the original scans you'll find filter manipulations. After erasing some shapes, I will rotate and size before saving them as the .gih files in my brush folder.
    Name:  random pile #30001.jpg
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Size:  376.9 KBName:  cartoon pile #30001.jpg
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    Name:  random pile #10001.jpg
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Size:  308.4 KBName:  various pile #10001.jpg
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    Name:  random pile #20001.jpg
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Size:  338.6 KBName:  diffraction pile #20001.jpg
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  10. #519
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    I have been busy configuring a computer I just bought for $80 and installed Fedora 11.0 on. On the one hand, it is very cool to be able to tweak a system with all kinds of whatever open source software. On the other hand, it is very time consuming to have no choice but to tweak your computer in order to get it to work the way you want. I'm about done. I can do everything I need to do for work except there is still a little trouble about online fillable .pdf forms. I am hoping that I can solve that by editing my preferences toward the Open Office I just installed. AbiWord seems a little weird.

    I wasn't sure if you said we would be drawing each other or drawing ourselves. Here is a picture of me as I look when I am trying to work and the wife of my boss gets in the mood for taking pictures. I redacted the name of a client that was on the box.
    Name:  self portrait 10001.jpg
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    I also have the picture of Alesoun upon which I based my drawing of her. It's a good picture and worth exploring in another medium.

    Last edited by arttorney; June 12th, 2009 at 11:47 AM.
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  11. #520
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    All right. My suspicions are confirmed. It is apparently the castle walls that are bothering everybody. I had tried to draw those as a sort of parabolic hyperbloid, but everybody's mind is seemingly trying to view them as being ordinary walls of unvarying height and extending uniformly to viewer. Note to self. Never expect anybody to "get it" unless it is so patently obvious that there has been no element of design creativity expressed. (Strangely, my Fedora computer doesn't seem to want me to use other colors of text on v bulletin) (Ha Ha! And it thinks colors is a misspelling. It likes "colours" though.)(I am pretty sure I could do the colors/colours if I input the bulletin board code manually).

    Now then. I am looking to draw Alesoun as Athena coming out of Zeus' head after it gets smashed open by Hephaestus. This would be practice drawing people. I guess the guys will be half naked, but no boobies (since Athena sprang forth in a full suit of armor. (Oh sorry, "armour." (Sheesh! I feel like Dan Quayle. Or is it Quayloe?))). Sorry to all the teenagers who come on here looking for boobies. Well here's one
    Name:  Athena1.jpg
Views: 373
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    I get some pretty incredible headaches, so I know where Zeus was coming from on this one. The Greeks, though, may have just been making an allegory about what a headache kids are. Who knows?

    Last edited by arttorney; June 14th, 2009 at 02:22 AM.
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  12. #521
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    Here is a little custom map I made of where the best live area seems to be on a certain magazine cover I won't get on anyway.
    Name:  live area.jpg
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    Here is a better thumbnail of the kind of composition I am looking at for a Birth of Athena entry to the big contest. Poor Alesoun won't be recognizable in her Greek helmet (in keeping with contest rules.) I am aware that the two anvils aren't properly in perspective with each other. This is just a thumbnail or rough of the idea I am working. They will get fixed, just asZeus and Hephaestus will no longer be wearing MMA trunks in the final.
    Name:  with figures.jpg
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    I'm totally jealous of all the friends Alesoun has. Guess I shouldn't act like such a jerk all the time.

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  13. #522
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    Damnit! You just reminded me I have a dentist appointment! Can you make him buff and cute? A gal can dream, can't she?

    If I said what he's really like, he'd make me suffer.....

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  14. #523
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    Sorry about all the ranting lately. It's kind of hurtful for somebody as egotistical as me to find that people aren't out there eagerly lapping up everything I post. It takes time to process that.

    If I didn't want people to see, then why did I put it on the internet? The corollary I have been learning is that if I want people to see, then apparently I wanted them to like it. (I don't generally make art with an intent to shock or offend.) The hard part: if I wanted them to like it, then I should have made sure it is something they will like. (This is the subtle part of what Muz said). I have long known I can't figure people out (on very many levels). Therefore: ongoing quandary. QED ("How to step outside of myself and criticize my own work from that outside viewpoint?")

    At least by complying with the request for stepwise progression I can show the people who check in that I do use reference. I try very hard to make a drawing that makes sense. I put in a lot of time on a lot of these things. To go along with the fact that the anvils are not in synchronized perspective, I have now added a furnace entrance that extends downward lower that the feet of Hephaestus (duh). This is why I make a pilot drawing, though, so I can catch myself in the bonehead things I do sometimes.

    No. I am not going to do a paintover of some photos. Yes I use grids. I also use mapping, whatever digital crutches I can figure out, art's little surprises as they appear, and I read books.

    This grid matches the one on the digital file I created this morning having dimensions of 1800 (top) x 2400 with 33 vertical lines and 44 horizontal lines (300 ppi). The picture I post today is what I will look at while I draw the preliminary relationships in a layer of the digital file (which currently has nothing but a grid). I will make corrections to the anvils to make them one big anvil that is properly in perspective with the people and walls. Of course the recessed fire area will have to be in perspective with the wall it is in, but also must end at or above the floor. I have other references for armor and Hephaestus arms. I need a left arm for Zeus. I need heads of Zeus and Hephaestus for which I have taken the photo and gotten model releases. I'll do that in Arizona next time I'm there because almost all my California friends are Chinese Americans. If I make Zeus and Hephaestus be asians I'll be right back in the zone of confusion for people. As noted above, I don't think Alesoun will be recognizable in that greek helmet anyway, but I will probably draw some girly hair coming out from under the helmet just in case my Greek Bikini Armor doesn't come out obvious enough. Athena was better known for her brains than her looks, but she was definitely female. There will be strong rim lighting from that fire. secondary lighting will be emanating from the cracks in Zeus' skull and I am currently thinking about making that a cornflower blue color (not quite a complement to the fire color).
    Name:  athenawippilotgrid.jpg
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    Last edited by arttorney; June 15th, 2009 at 05:33 PM.
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  15. #524
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    For this digital version of this, I first map out some key points.
    Name:  athena WIP001.jpg
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    Then, the digital guys usually seem to just start drawing blobs that they increasingly refine into becoming the picture. For the pen and ink one that I am thinking about also doing I would more likely try to have the perimeter defined by an open line (mainly because there is that much less pencil for me to have to erase later.
    Name:  athena wip 002.jpg
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  16. #525
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    You, me and Black Spot going the classical route. How's it going?

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  17. #526
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    Well, I'm incredibly busy at the moment but I am getting a little work in here and there. I am making a traditional pen and ink of the Athena one as it turns out. I have nothing really to show as yet.

    I am soon to finish up an acrylic of chriskot that I said a would do long ago. I am also working up a set of three abstracts to submit to a digital show. Cyberspace is the first, and this is a WIP of the second. I still want to give it a little love in the lower left and I will probably crop some from the bottom. I am also going to do a portrait of you. I haven't decided medium yet. I might have done charcoal over the weekend but I had to waste a lot of time over a "crises" an idiot legal client created for herself.
    Name:  wip abstract 2.jpg
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  18. #527
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    Just one Pepsi, and she wouldn't give it to me!

    I still need to do more work on this.
    Name:  chriskot 2.jpg
Views: 231
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    check it out. I'm such a dumbass I accidentally took a movie instead of a picture.
    mov00215.avi

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  19. #528
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    Here is what I did in the lower left corner of this abstract.
    Name:  displayabstract 2.jpg
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    Ohh! Put your mouse cursor on the right slider bar of your browser and "hold click" it. Then move your hand slightly forward and back, kind of fast, so this image goes up and down. It looks really freaky. Don't do this if you have epilepsy, though.

    Last edited by arttorney; July 12th, 2009 at 06:12 PM.
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  20. #529
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    Five jets in someone's lymphatic system.
    Name:  abstract3.jpg
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  21. #530
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    WIP
    Name:  chiron 30001.jpg
Views: 211
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    And, here is what jets in a lymphatic system look like when they become angel fish from Hell!!
    Name:  abstract3_1.jpg
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    Last edited by arttorney; July 14th, 2009 at 11:56 PM.
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  22. #531
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  23. #532
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    Boy! Auto levels sure does impart some graininess.
    Name:  chiron50001.jpg
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  24. #533
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    You know what, arttorney? I don't know where you're going with the digital stuff you're doing, and I bet you'd find it difficult to formalise it.

    I'm going to sit back until you work it out.

    I don't do digital, so I have nothing at all to say about it, but I'm watching with interest to see where you take it.

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  25. #534
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    I'm just doing abstract expressionism, though slanted a little back toward Kandinsky and I'm using digital means instead of real paint. Nothing special here I don't think. Instead of dripping like Pollock, or making amorphous masses of red like Clyfford Still, I am using a GIMP version of custom brushes called "image pipes."

    I needed three digital pieces to enter in a digital show being juried by someone from the LA County Museum of Art. There you have it. My ugly secret exposed. I am getting back into the Southern California gallery scene.

    Name:  chiron60001.jpg
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  27. #535
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    Some of your abstract work reminds me of textile art; particularly embroidery and collage. The jets in the lymphatic system make me think of dyed, creased silk.

    This one http://www.conceptart.org/forums/att...7&d=1246906075 makes me think of combined applique/embroidery. The textures are very strong.

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  28. #536
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    I know you have expressed hatred for the GIMP in the past, but I think you would be amazed at how easy it is to do that kind of work when you know where all the bells and whistles are hidden. I have a really cool screenshot program on my Fedora computer so I will be able to make a show and tell post when I get a bit of time.

    I am currently balancing the getting of a living with the production of this newborn thing.
    Name:  chironpen10001.jpg
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  29. #537
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    So many things on my plate! I'll get to the Alesoun drawing yet, and also finishing up the newborn thing and also showing how I make those abstract patterns etc. Suddenly though I need to make a crash redux of an old oil I made back in the days I was an art gallery president. A grant funded publication of local character wants the image to go with a specific poem by a local author. Here is the image they saw on my website:
    Name:  onramp.jpg
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    The oil itself is on a collector's wall in Santa Monica. No time to seek her out and get a high res image. Here is the digital redux I am working on. I know a bit of detail still needs to be added.
    Name:  onrampredux.jpg
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  30. #538
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  31. #539
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  32. #540
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    Centaur foal is looking good so far, Arttorney.

    I don't hate Gimp; I just hate being beaten by it. I have memory issues with this pc, so I've had to unload Gimp. If/when I get a new pc battle will recommence.

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