Crisis in the Middle-East
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    Crisis in the Middle-East

    Been watching a lot of CNN. Lots of crazy, and horrible things happening to a part of the world already in turmoil. Innocent people being cut down in a batte over 2000+ years of religious strife. With the way the American media is laying things out, it seems as though things are continuing to escalate.

    Here's hoping cooler heads prevail and that the zealots on both sides are brought to thier senses. Prayers go out here for those who have family/friends/etc overseas in any fashion near the fighting, and for those of us in this community near the violence. Lets hope the talking starts soon.

    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed, The world in arms is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross."

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    Amen to that mate!

     

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    hmm

    Last edited by sleep; August 16th, 2006 at 07:52 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helium Macaroni
    ... a batte over 2000+ years of religious strife.
    It's actually been only like 60 years... That's what I read at least.

    [
     

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    I watched a documentary called "Death in Gaza" last night. A shocking film in which the cameraman himself was killed by israeli soldiers. I recommend everyone to watch it. It will definitley open your eyes.

     

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    Israel has only been around for 60 years... that's when all the current Middle East BS started... U.S. one sided support for Israel over the years as it's government has brutalized the native palestinian population through kidnappings, murders, herding them into ghettos, rejecting their basic rights as human beings etc.... that's what our "terrorism" troubles are all about.

    U.S. Policy toward israel is completely skewed by jewish lobbysists in Washington. It's painfully obvious how corrupt our government is when you look at the current conflict in Lebanon and see our President's response to it.

    This situation makes me sick. Our government could do so much to end the bloodshed but they don't. Israel and the U.S. in it's complicity is fomenting a larger war in the middle east. Doesn't it strike you as strange that just because a couple Israeli soldiers were captured (where were they captured I wonder... possibly having already crossed the border into Lebanon?) that Israel then responds with a full blown attack on major lebanese infastructure? This was a preplanned attack. They were just waiting for an excuse and the pawns to fall into the right positions.

    It's crazy.. it's just like WWI. if israel attacks syria... then Iran will attack israel. If iran attacks israel... then the u.s. will attack iran (which people in our government have been itching to do for years.) al the pieces are set for a major escalation. The israelis were simply waiting for a few conditions to be set, one of the biggest was Iraq/Hussein being out of the way. Now that U.S. forces provide a nice buffer between Iran and Israel, any Iranian attack most likely will fall first and hardest on Iraq...

    fuck. I hate these war mongers. Isn't it plaibn to anyone paying attention that a large part of the violence in the world today is fomented by these fuckers in our government and the israeli government...

     

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    Dennis Leary had a joke saying we should get all the people in Iran and get all the people in Iraq and put them in one big country and call it 'Irate'.

    What does that have to do with Isreal? Only that people seem pissed off over there in the Mid East.

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    Well said Chingwa.
    Also to take into consideration is that the independant media no longer exists. I am unable to even watch the mainstream news channels anymore. As almost everything is unbelievabley biased. We are all being lied to. And that is NOT a conspiracy theory. The filters that skew the truth mean that most Americans sympathise with Israel, in its own "War Against Terror". If the general public were shown the actual reasons, I believe things would be different.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kian
    I watched a documentary called "Death in Gaza" last night. A shocking film in which the cameraman himself was killed by israeli soldiers. I recommend everyone to watch it. It will definitley open your eyes.
    http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?...=Death+in+Gaza

    ....i dont even known what to say....

     

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    I spent part of my childhood growing up in Beirut and it was interesting to say the least - still have distant relatives and family friends there.
    Whats even more interesting is this whole thing with Syria - they just got kicked out after Hariri was asassinated and it would seem like the perfect opportunity for them to worm their way in to aid hezbollah - which is now unlike before - a legitimate political party in Lebanon. Then you have Iran feuling the fire from the other side...with Israel just goin trigger happy...and the lebanese people, as always, caught literally in the crossfire.
    I dont know where the hell this is gonna end up - last time this happened in 1982, the world go to know the words Sabra And Chatila- lets hope things dont esculate to that level.
    I have fond memories of that place - that might sounds insane but when you're a kid, its one big adventure for you. I was actually hoping to go back soon, but with this insanity, I might have to wait another 20 years.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kian
    I watched a documentary called "Death in Gaza" last night. A shocking film in which the cameraman himself was killed by israeli soldiers. I recommend everyone to watch it. It will definitley open your eyes.
    Kian, that documentary, which had rave reviews here in Canada, was shown on TV a little while ago and, unfortunately, I missed it. Thanks DannySketch for the link. I just finished watching it and am speechless. It was brilliant, powerful, and frightening.

    2medusa
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kian
    I watched a documentary called "Death in Gaza" last night. A shocking film in which the cameraman himself was killed by israeli soldiers. I recommend everyone to watch it. It will definitley open your eyes.
    yeah I saw this about a year ago, powerful documentary, what a tragic ending. Its really sad how the complex situation is escilating like it is. To everyone directly or indirectly related to this region, besafe and our prayers go out to you.

     

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    While I believe that many of the actions that the Israeli's have taken are despicable, I also believe that in order for this conflict to end, someone needs to "win." Right now, Israel is definitely the likely canidate. I cant imagine this conflict ending with compromises. They're all too stupid.

     

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    Another great documentary to watch is called:
    Peace, Propaganda, & the Promised Land.
    Its quite disturbing how skewed the media can become.

     

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    Well.. when I say 2000+ years of religious strife.. I'm back-tracking all the way to.. well, the birth of the religions.. heh. I realize that the conflicts and the intensified friction has been existent ever since the birth of Israel after WWII.

    And Chingwa, I wholeheartedly agree. I'm a little at odds at how the nation was created to begin with, being carved out of previously occupied land and then governed, so it seems, but a group of rather rabid colonial zionists. (I think I'm using that term correctly.) I find it fascinating how at every bloody turn we (as in the U.S.) back them unilateraly dispite the egregious human rights violations they've commited. It continuously paints us into a corner. Then we wonder why militant islamic terrorism comes to our shores.

    Last edited by Helium Macaroni; July 16th, 2006 at 04:56 PM.
    "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed, The world in arms is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from an iron cross."

    ...I have a sketchbook?
     

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    wasn't it also the brits' fault for dumping the jews in israel after WW2?

    i don't know very much but some guy used to mention that everytime such a conversation came up.

    Last edited by ah.heng; July 16th, 2006 at 06:27 PM.
     

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    Yeah, That's sort of how it started. I remember someone telling me that the israelis and the palestinians got along all right at the begining but something happend, I have no idea to be honost if this is true, thats what i heard though.

    Hey, Rascar Capac I was in Beirut, Lebanon last summer, it was fantastic, they where really starting to rebuild and shape up while i was there. The hotels where magnificent, they had a fantastic beach, and had some hot ladies.

    [
     

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    The Jews have always been there, just like the Palestinians.......I mean the Bible says so......me ducks for cover

    I just think it's the cowboys and indians, only the indians have machine guns, rockets and suicide bombers now. Hey, the indians weren't treated all that great either.

    http://faculty.cua.edu/Fischer/Compa...ell/ISRAEL.htm
    After reading this, I've come to the conclusion they're all a bunch of hard asses over there.

    Last edited by NoSeRider; July 16th, 2006 at 08:15 PM.
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    One of the most amusing aspects in many subjects is just how intense some people can hold opinions without really knowing the facts. And I'm not pointing out anyone here or even this conflict; it's just that I've had several discussion with folks who were ready to bleed at the eyeballs until they finally admitted they weren't really sure of the circumstances.

    And in case anyone were interested in the world or seeing some consistant examples of human nature... history is absolutely riveting.

    I'm serious.

     

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    Bah!! Who needs history? History is for silly people who like to LEARN! I'll just believe what I WANT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kian
    in its own "War Against Terror".
    The way I see it "terror" is a rather relative term. That anyone can use legitimately. For instance, getting carpet bombed, or smart bombed, or whatever the fuck bombed from a 1000 feet up is sure to instill some terror to those hapless souls underneath those bombs. Who becomes the "terrorist" then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taj
    Hey, Rascar Capac I was in Beirut, Lebanon last summer, it was fantastic, they where really starting to rebuild and shape up while i was there. The hotels where magnificent, they had a fantastic beach, and had some hot ladies.
    Well the reason that Hariri's assassination caused such outrage and got the Syrians kicked out was that he was the man given credit to the rebuilding of Beirut after the civil war. The man was their hero.

    I have a book on Beirut that shows photos of beirut before and after the reconstruction - its astounding. I really have to go back - it will be a surreal feeling after all these years, visiting my old school and apartment building...

    And yes, Lebanon was known before as the Paris of the East - the weather over there seems to be like California where I am now - I guess one of those other places where you can go surfing and skying on the same day...(does anyone ever do that?) and middle Eastern women are beautiful.

    I just hope things go back to the way they were before all this shit went down - Beirut seems to be the place where all the Middles east gathers to air out their differences.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Lofgren
    The way I see it "terror" is a rather relative term. That anyone can use legitimately. For instance, getting carpet bombed, or smart bombed, or whatever the fuck bombed from a 1000 feet up is sure to instill some terror to those hapless souls underneath those bombs. Who becomes the "terrorist" then?
    Exactly Eric. Adbusters magazine has an article on "Who owns the word Terrorist?". And its very true. Its a word I hear all the time from Bush and Blair, Sharon. And its complete bullshit. Its fear politics at the extreme.

     

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    Quote Originally Posted by ah.heng
    wasn't it also the brits' fault for dumping the jews in israel after WW2?
    Not strictly... A good brief history of Israel can be found on the BBC website.

    LINK

     

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    Hopefully they will move Israel to the South Pole so they can fight terrorist penguins.


    I shed a dumpload of saliva on this theme, my views on it are clear cut, as for this recent conflict, Israel is just being the pawn to bait Iran into the crisis, just like Chingwa said.
    All too convenient to be just a vendetta for a handful of soldiers.

    I hope Iran doesn't take the bait.

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    all killing and suffering is pointless.
    as what goes around comes around, i do not believe any violence is optimal solution.

    that said, let me say a few things as an israeli currently in israel:

    the media is always false. even here.

    generally, nobdoy in israel has any desire to kill arabs, conquer arab territory, or rule them.
    it is the arabs who keep pushing us, fanatically, and prefer to see us die then see themselves grow and prosper.

    many opportunities given to the palestines were wasted or exploited by them in order to hurt israel rather than help the palestine people. support funds given by israel and the international community to the palestines were mostly absued by corrupted leaders and their families.

    every palestine "goverment" and authority established, together with israeli goverment support, turned out corrupted, helpless, and eventually overrun by militants groups also fighting amongst themselves. the people have no voice, and are ultimately caught up in whatever the militants are up to. if the people oppose the militants, they suffer. if they support them, they get money.

    beirut is identical in many terms to palestine -- it is overrun and controlled by the hizballah. the hizballah is a terror organization, supported and funded mostly by Iran and Syria. the goverment of Lebanon does not reflect the voice of the people, nor does it in Syria, Iran, as well as in most Islam countries. the people get caught up in it, again, and helplessly so.

    If anybody in there really cared for their own people and country, they wouldn't be throwing themselves on the altar, sacrifying their innoncent brothers on the way. most arabs don't want anything to do with it, and many are upset at the militant groups fanatically and selfishly perusing their own goals.

    by the way, the Islam religeon, of all religeons, is the most fanatic concerning violence, and phorbids killing of any kind.

    israel's actions are hardly driven by religeous views. it is, in fact, largely unorthodoc, although essentially patriotic. you do not see or hear anyone in the israeli goverment of army top saying israel did something in the name of "god". actions are simply being taken for self defense againts a reletnless horde that follows an extremely non-violent religeon in an extremely pro-violent way.

    i do not view this conflict as a religeous conflict, not from the israeli side, anyways.

    personally, as i've said, this whole thing is rubbish, war and death will get nobdoy anywhere, and carrying a gun and saying i want peace is ridiculous.

    hopefully, the world will find peace before 2012, and we won't see another world war happening.

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    People always make this assumption that people are rational.

    Not so.

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    too bad america no longer has the resources to take care of actual world problems. no spare troops or anything. Meanwhile other countries are responding to the new middle east problems are seen as heros because they're tackling a real problem. way to go bush

     

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    I have a lot of friends in Israel in Israel right now (they live there, so they're always there, but they also happen to be there right now). I also spent three years in Israel (the last two were during a situation similar to this one, because there have been many) and I have to say this because, like Dogfood said, there are a lot of people who read and watch documentaries and watch the news and then they think they know all they need to know.
    Being there and watching entire villages be forced to leave their homes by the army because the Israeli government was trying to compromise and meet the Palestinians halfway makes you realize that they're not really out for blood.
    I know I'm not going to change anybody's mind, I just hope some people will take a breath...

     

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    Sure it started when they became a nation, because nobody wants them there, period. The Jews are the most hated people in the world, they live in a country about the size of a small US state, surround by nations that state openly that they want to wipe them off the face of the earth. I don't think you can blame them when they are a little hot headed about defending themselves.

     

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