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Fans of Superman, especially those of us who are Comics artists, will find this article very interesting.
This article talks about how comparisons between the Superman of comics/the upcoming "Superman Returns" motion picture and Jesus Christ were not only evident but intentional.
Take a look and share your feedback...
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Doesn't really come as a huge shocker, the man is patrionism defined, and he's a real dick too.
I've seen this comic posted on imageboards about this sinner pope who was 'left behind' after the judment day thing, then he gained some strange powers. Pretty funny stuff.
Jamen jag tror att han skäms, och har gömt sig. Vårt universum det är en av dom otaliga spermasatser som Herren i sin självhärliga ensamhet har runkat fram för å besudla intet.
Soooo, let me get this straight.....Is evil to make a movie of the Da Vinci code becuase it has non-christian messages....BUT
Is ok to turn known iconical figures to make christian propaganda and reach the non-christians ( love the one sided aspect of that word...probably as much as anti-christian.)
My questions are this, Aren´t you concerned about making movies as propaganda for the christain religion to get more people to "turn"?
Are you ok with the fact that the use of this stange new way will work for the same reasons "the Da Vinci Code" did?
Don´t you worry about the quality of believers you will get with this form of advertising?
Prometheus: Those are hilarious.....
Quote from a cover:"Who wants a wife so stupid that she doesn't realize I'm Superman when I take off my Clark Kent glasses?"
Shamagim: Totally agree with you on the propaganda angle
I think superman is more of a condensation of humanity's struggle against the chaotic forces of both the world (and humanity itself) into a personality. As in, all that crap falling onto people that he stops. Unless something has desperately shifted in the focus of this new movie, like terrorists or satan are toppling falling signs onto people.
IIRC superman was largely intended to tap into Neitzche's posthuman ubermensch ideal. It's just a matter that Jesus also falls into much the same pattern.
In fact (and now I'm just reading off wiki ) Nietzche listed Jesus as near-ubermensch...
So yeah... Superman possibly more idea than person. Just so happens that other people have encapsulated the idea and one is very well known...
It seems to a be a recurring theme in literature/fantasy/scifi as well. Gandalf, Aslan, Sheridan from B5, hundreds of others I could name. I don't think it's propaganda so much as just cultural iconography.
I don't really see it as that big of a deal.
I´m talking about this comment and Skelton purpose :
"These story similarities, along with others, are important because Skelton said present-day Christians can use the analogies to reach out to those who are non-believers."
Is this right?
I thought Superman was a personification of closet homosexuality and unrestrained violence? Wasn't that why the public was really ticked by comic books in the 70's or something?
I'd find it rather funny that Superman is a metaphor for Jesus considering that his first writers were Jewish.
But wait! Superman's parents were Jewish, and so were Jesus's! The coincidences! They abound!
Actually I think Robocop would be a better metaphor for Jesus. Except with more guns, killings and robotic mayham. But he did come back to life to fight for justice!
It seems like the resurrection theme is common in literature. Keep looking and you'll find it everywhere.
The creators of Superman were Jewish immigrants, and Superman himself was supposed to symbolize the American dream: coming from a different country (planet), starting a new life in America (Metropolis) and achieving your dreams (flying, laser vision, super speed, red tights and a cape). This information was presented in an extra on the "Unbreakable" 2 discs DVD. The Jesus persona is present in many icons, from Superman to Neo in the Matrix, like Oregano pointed out. This could very well be whether some like it or not, not Jesus could be one of the earliest examples of a true Hero. An Anglo-Saxon Peom "Dream of the Rood" depicted Christ as a hero battling his way towards the cross. Many people closer to that time period considered Jesus Christ their hero, a figure full of sacrifice and herioc charisma. Again, this isn't propaganda, this is just our history and culture, and to some our faith.
Actually, they're both metaphors for Dionysus. Or Mithras. Or Tammuz, Hercules, Attis, Osiris...
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Visions has it right. One of my history professors back in college spent a whole lecture talking about how Superman is Jewish.Originally Posted by Mr. Visions
Elwell - Well, to the best of my knowledge the prediction of the Christ came long before those guys, so that's probably the our way around if your including Jesus. But, I don't wanna start some big everyone arguing theological dispute. So, I'm just throwing that out there, wooosa -
Parker D - That's extra ineteresting, never knew all that in that much detail. (and then the details dissappered: something about his home planet being destroyed like sodom and gomorah, entering Jerusalem (Metropalis) and raising the New Israel. Is that right?)
Last edited by Mr. Visions; June 16th, 2006 at 11:40 PM.
Like Jeri said...
Actually, didn't christian groups say the same thing about Chronicles of Narnia also??
So Superman is either gay or Jesus I guess. Whatever floats your agenda.
You are a level 8 ninja and even though you have a lot of weapons sometimes your ninja moves are your most powerful.
Well, C.S. Lewis was a Christian and many of the metaphors in the Chronicles of Narnia are directly related (Aslan = Jesus Christ, who is referred to the "lion of Judah"). If you don't believe it, He wrote about it in a letter to a fan -
Same with J.R.R. Tolkien, which the two were very good friends.
Also, the outlash against comics which started earlier that the 70's was due to the graphic violence and sexual tones depicted in noir comics, especially titles such as MAD and Tales from the Cript. Superman to the best of my knowledge was never considered gay (*cough cough LOIS LANE!).
Last edited by Mr. Visions; June 17th, 2006 at 12:00 AM.
You may be referring to "Seduction Of The Innocent" written in 1953 written by Fredric Wertham. Because of Wertham's sloppy research and lack of credible sources to back up his conclusions, he and his book have been largely discredited.Originally Posted by JERI
As far as the subject at hand, considering the number of superhero titles & characters available to the reader, it could be seen as giving a society who is largely monotheistic (believing in a single god in case you don't know) a little taste of polytheism. The stories are mostly about extraordinary beings performing extraordinary feats in the service of a greater good. Attend any comics convention in a major city and you'll see the true believers making their pilgrimages.
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Well as far as the link Tsnipes posted... it smells strongly of "paid movie tie-in" to me. After seeing how wildly popular "th passion of christ" was in the theaters (I mean come on you have a built in audience guilted into going to see it over and over again! ) I just think hollywood is tryin' to get in bed with all that christian dough. ($$$$$ <-- this kind of dough).
Would be easy enough to exploit and magnify the similairties and then pay a christian author half a mil to write a book. while you're at it, you could bribe some clergy to "suggest" the book to their congregations... voila! Instant return!
If Superman is Christ, then you can just as well say that Jesus is a poor man's Moses, or that God is a knockoff of Zeus.
But that may leave a bitter taste in your mouth.
The themes that are present in Jesus's story are present in stories from practically every mythology from every time and every place. Every hero is Jesus and Jesus is every hero. Though Jesus in this case could also be replaced with any number of names: Moses, Vishnu, Buddha, Herakles, Baldur... more recently Superman, Luke Skywalker and Neo. Humans make these stories for a reason, and we're no different than the people who lived 2000 or 5000 years ago in that respect.
Everybody read some Joseph Campbell. Hero with a Thousand Faces is a great book. Or watch that PBS series he did with Bill Moyers, The Power of Myth. Comparative mythology is a fascinating subject.
I know religious people hate it when you call their religion mythology, but one's got to call a spade a spade.
Actually, that's not exactly true: Tolkien was in fact surprised of the christian interpretation, he was actually very worried about being called a heretic when he wrote the Lord of the Rings (this is mentioned in his "Letters"). Of course, since he was a catholic, his way of thinking "poured" into his books, but he really wasn't intentionally writing about that.Originally Posted by Mr. Visions
And well, in fact this is an example of how everything can be "read" differently, depending on who does the reading (and when, and where), this doesn't mean one interpretation is more "valid" or "true", they're just... well, interpretations.
But I must admit that in some cases (like this Superman stuff) I kind of think that some people just read toooo much into some things.
Isn't why that sort of hero is dubbed the "Christ figure" in various stories and such? The story resonates with most people for a reason, Christian or not. The fact is that the story strikes some sort of cord in us... maybe it's hope, love, sacrifice, salvation??? We've seen these sort of stories recreated time after time. It shouldn't be a surprise that we find these things rooted into our movies and pop culture. History has shown us as writers we're constantly influenced by the "Christ Story".
It was funny tho, I watched the Passion of the Christ and wasn't really moved at all... even as a Christian. But when I watched Narnia and saw Aslan being ridiculed and killed I teared all up. I just found that to be an interesting experience.
Oh and Entroid is right... Tolkien hated allegory but he was a Christian so certainly that would bleed into his works. But Visions is correct regarding Tolkien and Lewis' friendship. Tolkien was actually responsible for the converting of Lewis to Christianity. He was an atheist and now he's regarded as one of the greatest Christian minds of all time.
Like Tully said,
It's all the Hero's Journey.
YES. Thank you. I was going to bring this up, but it slipped my mind.Originally Posted by Tully
Or my mind slipped.