Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 65
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Longtitude 64,72°, Latitude -21,88°
    Posts
    442
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Fine Arts my a** !

    I just needed an outlet for my rage.

    Thing is I went to an art exhibition here in Iceland. It was an exhibition of the final projects from the graduation class of Visual Arts from the Icelandic Academy of the Arts.

    Some of things there were quite good, in fact one of the first pieces I saw was incredibly good, it was a music video for an icelandic group called Tristian, the music was incredible and the video fit very well. To be honest this made me feel VERY optimistic about the exhibition.

    After wandering around, I realised everything else was utter shite.

    It was a bunch of arty farty people trying to express themselves in a creative manner without having the skill or talent to do so. I'm sorry if I'm being a jerk, but I don't think of a piece of meat attached to a iron stick, waving up and down as art.

    Someone had glued paper cut-outs to a wall.
    Another one had takan black paint and painted very bad (unproportioned and unclear) stick figures on the wall.
    Somebody had sewn two 7" dolls, a dinosaur and a cow, having A*al sex.
    Somebody had videotaped a close up shot of a massage.


    To me this isn't art, and although I realise that there were some good pieces, there was only one piece that was really good, in my honest opinion.

    You don't have to comment on this or anything, I just wanted to be heard.
    Wanted: 30 chinamen and a zeppelin for an elaborate practical joke... can you help?


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    sarasota, fl
    Posts
    166
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    at the drawing and painting exit show at my school there were maybe 2 people that drew or painted non abstract. ive seen things at shows from meat hanging from pantyhose to an installation where the artist sat in a room with see through walls 10 hours everyday for 5 days ripping individual pages out of books(no lie). in the fine arts world if you paint with a paint brush from life your considered a dinosaur.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    830
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 11 Times in 5 Posts
    Yeah.. Theres a TV show they show here and they try to bring on arists, musicians, actors, etc once in a while..

    Anyways, this show keeps bringing this famous "Artist" who has done some art work for TV shows ("Friends" is the most prominent)

    Anways this ladys artwork is stupid. She has no talent, and honestly I dont see how anyone can like it.. But somehow she has become famous for it.. It really blows my mind. It looks like work that a pre-schooler would do, yet people pay thousands of dollars for her junk.. Its not art at all.. its stupid!

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    bavaria, germany
    Posts
    874
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
    over at sijun, i once read a comment by spooge demon (craig mullins) that was roughly like this:

    if you wanna work in the field of production art, matte painting or illustration, go to art school, learn from the old masters, acquire skills, practise, practise, practise...

    if you wanna be an artist, do everything but don't go to school, visit huge parties instead, produce just some weird stuff and make sure all people see that you are serious about it.

    pretty much sums the thing up.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    in the GTA
    Posts
    1,014
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    LoL nice one gekitsu. I don't want the "artist" title following me around, because I tend to use art as yes a way to express myself, but more so in a functional matter. When people only use it to become an artist and go to parties its humourous. Practical applications of art in the industry video games, movies, tvs, whatever that's where the long term money is

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    29
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    It's actually very difficult to define what art is these days. Every time I look at things like that, I wonder what it is that drives people to do things like this. If you guys do some research on Modern and Post Modern art, maybe you'll get a better idea why people actually do this type of thing.

    I must admit that I have actually seen some pretty interesting pieces of this kind - in terms of execution is concerned, it's relatively easy, but in terms of concept, it's actually very clever (some of them).

    There was a whole debate on this in the Art History section of these forums that was started by Lunatique. If you search for "conceptual art" you might be able to find it.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts
    1,133
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    I know why they do that. Because nobody in the art scene cares for quality anymore they just hop on and try to make a buck.

    And that works really well for them too.

    About the feelings and intentions of the artist, i think that is beside the point. Art is in the eye of the beholder.
    Power is nothing without intelligence.

    Sketchbook!

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    29
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I know why they do that. Because nobody in the art scene cares for quality anymore they just hop on and try to make a buck.
    I think it's a lot more than that (but money does have something to do with it)... I think it's more to do with a break from tradition (and probably a lot more reasons I can't think of).

    If we say art can only be XYZ and nothing else, how are we suppose to progress and discover new frontiers??

    This has been discussed before so I'm not going to go into it any further
    Last edited by mic; May 11th, 2003 at 06:30 AM.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    1,207
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 263 Times in 22 Posts
    Ninety percent of everything is crap. - Theodore Sturgeon

    I remember seing a TV show for kids ... there's an artist who can do really great stuff.
    When I saw it he arranged spoons, forks and saltshakers and stuff like that on the ground.
    In about 5 minutes there was a stunning image of the eiffel tower
    (when viewed from above)

    I kinda hate generalizations! Maybe it's true ... maybe the wrong people get famous for their stuff.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts
    1,133
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    I settle for 90% anytime ;-)

    Ok, i agree my comment should be toned down. But mic i think that your argument only holds if a. not everybody is running rampant towards the perceived new frontier and b. there is room to perceive that new frontier individually as opposed to having it prescribed by a sort of collective art-board or whatever we might call it that tries to define if the given artist has been meeting the right people.

    Of course there are exceptions. I think that if you have any of the great conceptartists on this site arrange eiffeltowers out of spoons and kitchen appliances the result will be far more aesthetically pleasing than if you have a bunch of random modern/abstract artists do it (and then pick from the ones that just graduated their art college, not the picasso's and so on).

    Because there you have the large portion that is just doing a trick. (o look i have reached a new frontier i rip pages out of a book for 5 days! -- if i go sit on the pavement and flip over pavement stones for 5 days, that would be *another* new frontier i guess )

    *rant* sorry

    yeah this discussion is getting old. So let's keep it going we might hit a new frontier ;-)
    Power is nothing without intelligence.

    Sketchbook!

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Californication
    Posts
    1,091
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 39 Times in 20 Posts
    you guys know the real history of exhibition art? A bunch of untalanted "artists" in N.Y. figured out that it's ALL about marketing. So they ran around calling their shit art and the naive public just believed them, even if they never understood it. Now we have mastwers programs in universities atempting to study this shit, and these people hold themselves up on their own pedastools believing they are somthing that they are not.
    Either way, some of it is intersting, while most of it is crap.
    It's the same thing as lisitening to music that has a rythm and lisitening to another piece that is just noise.

    But in the end, it's all in the eye of the beholder..

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    173
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    This is what I have learned from being in both art and design school (6 year total):

    Most of these people we are speaking of here are talentless in art...what their talent lies in is bull-shiting people into thinking what they just made was art. They tell you how tortureous/angst ridden/melencholy/ etc. their lives are. How this is an expression of everything they think and see. They string about 100 words in a row that make no sense to a sensable human being. IMHO if you need to explain your art that much...or confuse someone into thinking its art...your not dong your job as an artist. Art is a visual medium. If you have to explain it constanly you have failed.
    Last edited by boehmke; May 12th, 2003 at 03:42 AM.
    -PHUNT-

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts
    1,133
    Thanks
    11
    Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
    I wonder what would happen if i would take a randowm piece of the type of art we discussed and put it on sale on a flea market.

    Let's say it gets as much attention as the 1982 Diana Ross LP with scratches and a ripped cover, or a full collection of power ranger toys with one arm missing. Let's say someone would pay 5 bucks for it. That would prove that the BS is required to sell it as art and the BS is 90%+ of the value.

    Does that imply that taking the powerrangers and glueing it to the diana ross album and putting it in the window of the gallery would make that sell? No, it has no BS story. (Or the BS stained the gallery so much that putting it in the window implies its art and it would sell anyway ;-) ) Strange.

    I could be totally wrong of course but there is only one way to find out. Let's do the exeriment (and yes, that counts as art too!)
    Power is nothing without intelligence.

    Sketchbook!

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Gnomon School, LA
    Posts
    217
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    i can agree 100 percent with what is being said in this thread. i'm graduating from a good liberal arts school next weekend, and i originally was a Comp Sci major and i changed over to studio arts. now obviously the school i was at wasn't a true art school . the art program really wasn't that great and in turn, i'd say 75 percent of the senior thesis exhibitions were abstract in nature. it really is a joke the way this stuff is done.

    i'm not sure the student can always be at fault though, as is the case of my school. generally speaking, it seemed to me that most of the instruction by professors was pushing students into that abstract mode. suffice it to say that the program needs a ton of work, of my 2 and a half years in the program, which included 3 drawing courses (yes 3, thats it) we did figure drawing for maybe 2 or 3 weeks in the introductory drawing class. talk about a joke!

    so ultimately, i feel that because the instruction wasn't that great, not only did the professors push students to the abstract mode, but naturally students gravitated toward it because of the lack of training they received.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    York, PA
    Posts
    3,226
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 205 Times in 54 Posts
    Usually history goes in pendulum swings...we gravitate from one thing to another and back again so hopefully since we have run out of "shock value" pieces of art we will start getting back to realism. At least we still have www.artrenewal.org !!!!

    I guess I have to share one of my museum going nightmares. Once I went to the museum and there was an exhibit where they showed these items...a sink with dolls legs stuffed up the pipes...half of a room full of big huge plastic noodle looking things...a pile of sand with mirrors behind it...and a tree (inside the museum) with a broken tree house hanging from it. Everyone was frowning at me in the museum because I burst out laughing and I said, "You have got to be kidding me...since when does filling a room with giant plastic rigatoni mean anything???" And all I could think to myself was that someone actually got paid for that crap..makes no sense.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Gnomon School, LA
    Posts
    217
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    let's hope we will swing back into realism! by the way, great story Mindcandy. i would have loved to hear that in an exhibition!!!

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    317
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I would agree with a lot of what has been said in this thread. Most of the artwork that has been so well recieved by the public (or should I say art world?) in the last twenty or thirty years leaves me baffled. Making art from noodles, meat products or glued dolls really does nothing for me but leave me depressed.

    It almost seems that every "fine" artist in the later part of the 20th century felt obligated to be insincere and was more interested in shock value than asthetics.. and the public expected them to act like Andy Warhol or something.

    Still, I'd just have to repeat what others have said. It is not all bad. Some of it is beautiful and very well crafted.

    Realism, by itself can be just as unemotional and boring as the rest. Think of the super-realism of the seventies. After viewing some of that crap I am left just as empty as I may have been looking at soup cans. Also, the neo-classical artwork of the eighties was just a sham. An insincere attempt.. but it was a realistic sham.

    I don't know why I felt like responding here but I did. I have read this thread with some interest since it started.. I just think it is helpful to remember that throughout history, for every great and innovative artist out there (whether they are using an abstract method or a realistic one) there are a legion of hacks out there trying to emulate them. I think it has been that way probably since the first cave painting.

    Personally, I think most true innovators have moved from the gallery space anyway. There are so many other ways to get your work out now.. with print and the internet and movies and games and..

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Seattle, Washington
    Posts
    614
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I blame it on the art critics. I don't think there's anything wrong with conceptual or contemporary art, but the wrong artists are getting the most publicity. I could be wrong of course, because I'm not familiar with the contemporary art scene.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Gnomon School, LA
    Posts
    217
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    mindcandy, thanks for the link to Art Renewal....sweet site! i've been kinda bored at work recently, so today i've been reading through everything there and it is really great stuff. anyone who hasn't read it, i'd suggest giving it a read, its really interesting stuff

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Seattle, Washington
    Posts
    614
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Longtitude 64,72°, Latitude -21,88°
    Posts
    442
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    oh and by the way, I have to mention this..

    One guy had a blank canvas but there were some green marker lines here and there

    Apparantly, this was his way of showing that without context, maps don't mean anything. Maps are what we want them to be.

    I feel so stupid, I never realised this.

    :bsflag:
    Wanted: 30 chinamen and a zeppelin for an elaborate practical joke... can you help?

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Gnomon School, LA
    Posts
    217
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    hahahahaahaahhaahahaha, i can't stop laughing after reading that kortez, thats just too funny

  24. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    16
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    It kind of makes me wonder, is it worth going to art school anymore. It’s not cheap and it looks like I will be learning crap. $50 000 is not a small about of money for me.

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Black Rock City
    Posts
    1,986
    Thanks
    586
    Thanked 1,221 Times in 134 Posts
    here is the best article i have found on the web about this subject


    [URL=http://www.artrenewal.com/articles/2003/Decline_Education/decline1.asp]



    http://www.artrenewal.com/articles/2003/Don_Gray_Art_Education/don_gray1.asp

  26. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    York, PA
    Posts
    3,226
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 205 Times in 54 Posts
    Great article, thanks Andrew. Lays it all out...awesome.

  27. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Cambridge, England
    Posts
    170
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Am i the only one who this that hates artrenewal's politics with a passion. They seem to want to drag art back to the time of Bouguereau.

    I have to admit I hate most modern art with a passion and it seems to have become more to do with interia decoration than art. I mean there is lots of absract stuff I could imagine putting in a room as nice design to add some interest to a wall but not pay these rediculous prices that we have seen. I don't however write all of it just because I think the majority of it should be burnt. There are nugets of gold in them there hills . For example I have to admit that I don't get Picasso. His stuff just doesn't do anything for me. I have looked round the picaso musiem near Barcilona and thinking that most of the stuff was not at all interesting. However even I can't write of all his stuff. Picasso's Guernica is for me one of the most moving war paintings I have seen. Even Sargent one of my favorate painters never created any war paintings that I think can touch the emotion in this. And this is from somebody who hates Picasso and worships Sargent .

    Looking through the modern masters in ARC wtf are painters like Lucian Freud. There are some tecnically very gifted painters there but they all leave me cold. How can a site talk about modern masters without mentioning imho the greatest living portait artist. I will not say that I dislike the painters there I love some of William Whitaker's stuff but the artist that they have shown there represent such a narrow view of art. I have no problem with people who think that the art on display there is the pinical of art but I strongly object to the atitude that this is the best form of art and we should forget all modern art.

    I agree that art education today needs to teach more of the craft of painting and less about self expression. The reasons for this are not that all modern art is crap and worthless but that if you do not teach people the craft of painting then the artist doesn't have complete freedom in which to express their ideas. How can an sombody be a properly tarined artist if they have to limit all their ideas to purly abstract stuff because they lack the necessary skill to produce realistic stuff. I don't beleve that people should produce abstract stuff but they should have the choice of which path to follow. The other thing I have never been able to understand is if somebody doesn't have good painting skills how they can claim that they created the abstract piece on purpose by placing their bruch exactally where they meant to rather than by acident. People shouldn't be sent into the world only being able to create art by acident .

    ARC has done some good stuff for the comunity with stuff like their online musiem which is excellent. But I really wish the would quite with all their politics which are more about trying to enforce somebody else view of what fine art is on everybody. If they were to be come the craft renewal center and help renew the teaching of basic craft of painting I would feel a whole lot more confortable with the organiataion.

    To everybody here I EMPLORE YOU don't subscribe to the all this rubish about all art after 1900 being efectivally worthless. There is so much wonderful stuff you will be missing out on if you just take the time to wade through the crap. Liking some modern art is nothing to be ashamed of as ARC would have you beleve. Always keep an open mind and don't spend your life trying to become a human camera. I have one of thouse and it can take several of thouse a second. Rember we are all products of this era. When I close my eyes I don't se inviting nymphs like Bouguereau painted I see xmen, bullet time and and wizard called gandelf. Lets enjoy the past but paint and create the here and now. For me movies and computer games are the really exciting creative things going on now an are the things really stimulating my imagination. I rember the way I felt after seeing the matrix and there are very few paintings that have ever made me feel that way. I love the past but people lets create the future.

  28. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Castrop-Rauxel, Germany
    Posts
    1,133
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 15 Times in 11 Posts
    Hi Lionel,

    even if I belong to the pepole who like Picasso very much I just have to say that I can subscribe your view of art. There are so many ways getting narrowminded and sometimes even Fluxus can be moving and inspiring. Fortunately there are more colors than black and white ... artists should know that

    Fipse

    P.S. YOu´tre not the only one ... I really can´t stand Artrenewal ...
    <Insert witty remark here>

  29. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    184
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I'm not completely closed to modern art. I mean, it's cool and all but not my thing, I don't have a problem with others doing it. The reson I, personally, do not do it, is because it just doesn't seem to have feeling to it. That's also why I do not see why people spend millions of dollars on a chair glued to a table, or an upside down christmas tree taped to a lightpost hanging sideways of the wall. It's great to look at, but why spend so much money on it? I'm a huge picasso fan, sad though how he's most recognized for cubism [spelling?] it was a good era for him, but I wouldn't consider it modern art. He really put emotion into it. ^^
    Don't know if anyone watches The Simpsons, but there was an episode about modern art. I guess people will just be people. I'm just going to stick to my ways of art and continue watching everything else. ^^' If anything, guys, you could take inspiration from this and put it into your drawings. :3 Make some good out of modern art. Even if you hate it.
    It's better to live on your feet than to die on your knees.

  30. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    184
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    I don't care what they make, I'm not claiming none of them make real art but I hate how some of them are dissing traditional work or illustration or conceptart, claiming they're the real artist etc. That makes me want to break every bone in their body
    Amen to that! I don't mind their art, but when they start insulting traditional work......just......grrrrr....:evilbat:
    It's better to live on your feet than to die on your knees.

  31. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    UWS NYC
    Posts
    1,253
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 8 Times in 3 Posts
    LIonel i agree with you 100 percent

    BTW its kinda hard to compare a two hour movie with character develop ment,a plot, etc with a static painting

    2 completely diff mediums

    BTW

    i think the best modern artists DID have a traditional art upbringing

    PLEASE dont generalize and say that modern artists are against traditional art--i dont know--since ive been in NY ive seen the most amazing modern art and the worst modern art i could imagine

    Ive seen twenty foot black metal walls that had black steel squares on them at diff angles and if you so much as blew on a sqaure it would rotate---it was mesmerizing


    then ive also seen hotwheels set broken to bits in the middle of a gallery ( almost added my vomit to it)

    like lionel said there is some great "modern" art going on out there

    just because its not a figuritive oil painting ( which are among my favs) doesnt mean its modern bullshit





    whew!
    Last edited by tyboogie; May 20th, 2003 at 03:48 PM.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. How to educate yourself in the fine arts?
    By markrandom in forum Art Discussions
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: December 29th, 2010, 02:08 PM
  2. Art: Fine arts
    By jayanthis.fds in forum Fine Art
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: November 22nd, 2008, 06:12 AM
  3. Fine Arts.
    By a_ in forum Education & Schools for Artists
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: September 16th, 2003, 09:22 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Designed by The Coldest Water, we build the coldest best water bottles, ice packs and best pillows.