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Thread: Training Dvd's, Workshops and Books VS Artschool

  1. #27
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    Sep 2004
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    You can just be a better you. You can't be Marko, you can try, but you will only be seen as someone who is trying to imitate someone else. People will respect you if you are being true to who you are and you are doing your own thing, not copying others. Just use your life experiences, but if you don't have any, go out and get some.

    I don't have anything new to add really, I need to experience life more.

    Question to Marko: Do you think you can succeed reaching a goal, even if it's not specific? I'm asking this because a lot of people today seem just to be wandering around saying "I want to be a doctor", "I want to be an artist" but instead they're just sitting in front of the TV, being nothing. I guess that's my biggest fear, that I won't have any goal later on in life.
    Last edited by Profil; April 26th, 2006 at 04:46 PM.
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  3. #28
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    Jul 2003
    Los Angeles. CA
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    thank you guys for all the imput, i am enlightened!
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  4. #29
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    Jul 2004
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    great thread, thanks alot folks

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  5. #30
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    Mar 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Profil
    Question to Marko: Do you think you can succeed reaching a goal, even if it's not specific? I'm asking this because a lot of people today seem just to be wandering around saying "I want to be a doctor", "I want to be an artist" but instead they're just sitting in front of the TV, being nothing. I guess that's my biggest fear, that I won't have any goal later on in life.
    I'm not Marko, but yes, you can reach a slightly unspecific goal. Notice I use the qualifier "slightly". If you're wandering around saying "I want to be an artist", but all you really do is sit in front of the TV, than you're lying to yourself. You don't want to be an artist.

    People are very simple and easy to understand creatures sometimes. When they want something, they do what it takes to get it. But everything we want comes at a cost. Sometimes we want our free time, our money and entertainment. Most goals require giving up some or all of those things at least a little bit. People who don't give those things up to achieve a goal are lying to themselves about how much they really want to achieve that goal. It's not worth giving up some free time, money or chuckles in front of the idiot box for them. They don't really want it as badly as they thought they did.

    Their mistake is either not being realistic about what they have to do to succeed or they chose the wrong goal. They should've found something they wanted more and pursued it instead.

    But that doesn't answer the question really. It's okay if your goals start out as kind of vague. "I want to be an artist" is okay ("I want to be a designer" is better ). When you're just starting out on a new path, you really don't know all of the different places it can lead to. You may say right now, "I want to do concept design for videogames." Then you enroll in an ID program somewhere and learn in the first couple of years that you really enjoy designing products, or furniture. You may take a graphic design course as an elective and discover that you love typography, and set out to become a world class type, logo and graphic designer.

    Or you may find that you want to try a lot of different things over the course of your career.

    You can start with a vague goal, but just make sure you don't leave it vague forever. At some point along the way you will narrow it down to a few possibilities rather than hundreds. You probably won't narrow it down beyond that (I hope not at least). You'll always be interested in other forms of design (or whatever). You'll always try your hand at other things once in a while, just to keep your mind fresh if nothing else. Your career may settle on one thing, but hopefully your side projects will always be diverse.
    Last edited by MEP; April 27th, 2006 at 12:42 AM.
    In the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "I drank what?"
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  6. #31
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    Sep 2003
    Las Vegas, NV
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    Just wanted to say thanks and wanted to make sure I was locked into this thread for future updates. I often think that if I would just chill out and enjoy the drawing more it'd turn out better. I certainly have a more uptight way of dealing with my work that breeds countless hours of frustration. I often am not thinking enough when working either. Just trying my best to get the anatomy right or whatever. Maybe I just need to drink more and relax more when I draw. Heh. Thanks again for the great info. Lots to re-read in here.
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  7. #32
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    Feb 2004
    between metro stops in VA, DC, MD
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    I really love this forum, there's no other one quite like it. I've been creating this character for VOID ( a site where you create a character and battle other artists through sequential pages which are judged on writing/art quality). And he's this old black man who's centuries old and is just this really chill, funny old man who likes to hang out at bars and make people laugh. He's a bad ass fighter too, but I want people to focus on his funny, easy-to-get-along with personality. I wanna protray that visually but I'm completely stumped, now I have a new approach to this design and like someone said, I feel like my eyes are open now.

    Gracias peoples.
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  8. #33
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    Dec 2004
    Tasmania, Australia
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    I have been drawing a few characters and vehicles for my project and back to what Marko said before about using inspiration from unexpected sources, Bonedog was commenting on what goes though your mind when you draw and you have said in and interview that you prefer traditional media because you make decisions in a split second and digital leaves you with too many options because of the ability to undo things. So I was thinking about how many decisions are made when making art.
    Currently i'm drawing an Aztec queen that transforms into a cyborg snake when she gets pissed off and i'm thinking about the fully transformed creature and trying to get that down on page. I realized that with the mechanical parts of her I just had to think about digging machines, circuitry etc and blend the parts that I liked about those into my design. However when I thought of the shape of her head and the best way to draw it I was stumped because I just kept on thinking of the same thing, however the next day I thought about it some more and came up with a few thumbnails that I liked.
    Forcing creativity is nearly impossible but it must be important in the creative world.
    My question is when you’re trying to be creative and you’re pressed for time is it best to not think about your subject as has been suggested and let it come to you, or rather get a page and do thumbnails until something comes?
    When you’re being asked to draw 15 characters a day, which have to fit a particular design brief does your experience not allow time for design blocks?

    And also I like seeing a lot of movies some are trashy visual effects types but they look cool and others have more quality drama in them, a lot of industry professionals suggest viewing movies and art books of movies for inspiration, is it ok to learn from such sources for 'taste' or is it about the environment you see?
    I think that art is a bit like fashion in a since that it moves with the times for example the in the renaissance the style and demand or general taste for art at the time was pleasing figures and flowing drapery, with the coming of impressionism, style generally changed again then to modernism etc. With concept art is it safe to acquire tastes from successful movies, books, games, fashion etc with those tastes being used for design to suit its audience or will letting your mind and experiences develop marketable taste be enough?
    A good example of what im saying is Marko's redesigning of characters and how the X-men concepts 20 years ago looked fresh and entertaining. But with the change of fashion etc they look dated. Only by observing those around you do and other peoples art would you see that change in fashion, you can see it when your graphic design work and how you put that modern grundge feeling to your pieces.
    I was looking at a art book from the 1980 and bright colours and abstract designs were all the rage so if you lived back in the 1980's and redesigned the X-men im sure that it would turn out differently.
    How much of your designs are based around modern tastes and fashions? It must play a role or you would not be a "meterosexual pirate".
    An example of fashion in concept design is in the original Alien the computer screen designs in the movie were very old school monochramatic box screens and in modern designs of the future all the screens are LCD and some are projected in the air and controlled by hand like in Minority report.

    Quote Originally Posted by James Kei
    polishing a shitty design will land you straight into a big pile of boring.
    So is the design of a character more important then the concept of a character?
    What makes Conan the Barbarian design look dated and Aragon from LOTR's design look fresh?
    When they are both just dudes with swords the story behind there costumes and the way they look are more important.
    And some people prefer old school designs to new age ones.
    Something which I find interesting is that we bought an Xbox 360 and I played a few games on it but the games that are really addictive are games like Tetris and pacman on my mobile. So it might not just be about getting the design to look the coolest by like Andrew Jones said its like "hitting that perfect cord" in relation to making a design memorable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marko
    Even my favorite artists are graphic designers and typographs, or abstract painters cause I think there is more to learn from their simplicity then from any overrendered illustration depicting Barbarian #157, Warrior-Princess #72 and Uberdragon #10.345.
    So when designing a concept that is been used before is best not to use other peoples designs for that same concept as they will limit your possibilities. Using other sources of inspiration will open your mind to other possibilties not though of before. But this is all just to do with the design of a concept.
    So is a concept artist role more of simply putting the design down on paper or do you have more power into the outcome of the final concept?
    I'm sure that experience in the industry will solve a lot of these questions and I propably shouldn't let it worry me and just draw but it's interesting to think about.
    Last edited by Evil_Sloth; April 29th, 2006 at 12:26 AM.
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  9. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Good ole California
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    This thread deserves a bump for those that might have missed it. (like I did)

    DS Illustration
    "Get reference.
    There is nothing wrong with using a photo to help you see things.
    No one complains about life drawing,
    so take a photo.
    its easy, and will improve your piece greatly."
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  10. #35
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    Jan 2006
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    Great thread (btw, thanks for the bump, ink).
    I'm a graphic designer and an illustrator-wannabe. Even when I'm not a concept artist, I think there's a lot of points in common in these disciplines. I'm currently on the last year of what you could call a BA in graphic design with a minor in illustration (education system is quite different here in Argentina, so it's a rough conversion). The level of my school is quite low (and so is the overall level of the country in that subject), but I think the thing that staggers my learning process the most is not that, but the lack of people with the same interests. That's, in my opinion, one of the most underrated things about schools: the possibility to relate to people that's roughly at your same skill level, and which whom you can share knowledge in a different way (that's when CA comes in). I think sometimes you learn more from your colleagues and sourroundings than from teachers (but don't get me wrong, I endorse academic education). Perhaps this way of thinking is just the result of being mostly self taught (books, DVDs, CA, practice, etc) because of the shallow approach to the discipline teached in my school.
    This was said all over the thread, but I believe that any form of visual communication (be it GD, illustration or CA) is only a means, not an end. Those disciplines are hollow if there's nothing that needs to be communicated with them. Even the more personal work sticks to that principle.

    Originally Posted by Marko
    Even my favorite artists are graphic designers and typographs, or abstract painters cause I think there is more to learn from their simplicity then from any overrendered illustration depicting Barbarian #157, Warrior-Princess #72 and Uberdragon #10.345.
    This must be the first time I see the word "typograph" in this forums (plus, I'm intrigued, who these favs of yours are). I wish there where GD/typography sections in

    Well, just my point of view, please keep posting your thoughts.

    Last edited by fedezz; May 25th, 2006 at 02:06 PM.
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  11. #36
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    Oct 2005
    Bologna, Italy
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    very interesting thread.Nice too see very interesting replies too.

    Actually, I don't work yet, and I asked myself the same question as EVilSLoth.But i'm still in highschool, and maybe thats my problem.I'm so damn focused on reaching what i want (being able to work in this field) that i hate my school (here i study industrail design in my art school), and i'm hating every inch of it.I get very good marks when i actually DO something, but most of the time don't because i think its just useles (it makes me feel arrogant and stupid, but shit happens).I also watch training DVD, but never copy them.Actually, I just watch most of them, not to get inspiration, but to learn how other people reach their objective in a wuick and efficient way, and i try to make my own way.I surf here of CA a lot because people open nice threads like this one once in a while, and because some very good artists give me inspiration.I sometimes copied Marko's stuff actually NOT for inspiration but 'cause i think things like "damn that is a cool way of drawing a nose" or "i never thought of using patterns in my designs" or "i've had a smudger in a draw for 4 years, and never knew it coud actually be useful".Actually i don't know if i have inspiration or not, and certainly i don't know where i get it.But i don't think other artists stuff can't give you inspiration to do something different, unlike Marko says.Actually, thought i respect him REALLY a LOT as an artist, I think different people have very different ways of achieving the same objective, but i sure agree with him (and really hope so, since i'm counting on it myself) that motivation will be able to get me anywhere.

    aw well, maybe its a whole bunch o crap, but its one of the longest posts in my life, and i feel relieved

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  12. #37
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  13. #38
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    good bump - nobody has made this into a sticky yet?
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