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Thread: New Artists Seeking Help Come Here!

  1. #121
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    Catapult Beetle:
    Nice, although you do wrong with the sphere, the shadows dont look like
    that, well the highligh ON the sphere is good, but not the shadows under the sphere.
    Tiava: Try more perspective, just something easy to get a hung of it , right!?

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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by vigostar
    nsae- hey there.. glad to see that you jumped in on these assignments... first of all... I would like to suggest you use some sort of medium other then computer for these excersizes. The best thing for a starting artist is to learn the tools of our great artistic ancestors before you jump into the 21 century.. Having that said your perspctive looks ok but, the artwork as a whole looks pretty sloppy. Read some of the previous comments I left to some of the other artists. I try to stress the importance of pride in your artwork even though it may seem to be remedial these are the building blocks of your trade. So, embrace it and love it enough that you would never want to do something just for the sake of working on a project. Learning is the key to improving. If you jut draw and learn nothing then you will never improve. good luck on your drawings.

    Master Krepta- this is def. a step up from your last post. However your bottle still has no structure. Also, with all due respect to Kai's advice I think you should learn how to manipulate your pencil without the use of outside materials. You can get an amazing range of value just by using the pressure of your pencil. Learn how to blend with just that before you move onto other mediums. also take into consideration that most professional artist do not use a smudge stick. Usually it just "muddy's" up the artwork. Creating beautiful strokes and confident lines are the key to a great drawing.

    Also, just a suggestion Ian. I think the next assignment should be to create boxes which should be filled with a range of value from ultimate black to pure white. Have maybe 20 boxes all equal in size and fill the boxes going from dark to light. The key is to change value from one box to the next. Sounds easy right. Well, try it and see how easy it really is. Each box should contain a noticabley subtle change in value. This will help you guys understand and get the hang of controlling your pencil and visually seeing a small spectrum in value. these boxes should be done neatly. Meaning that they should be completly filled, rendered in evenly, no lines outside of the inside square and this should all happen with your good old trusty pencil.

    Also, if you guys and or gals are not finding any of my comments or suggestions usefull then please let me know. I'll save my comments and suggestions for another thread.
    Hi Vigostar, I seem to have totally missed this post. I didn't see your topic suggestion. I think it's really good I would have put it as topic 4 if I had realized. So sorry about that. I will officially make it topic 5.

    Also your comments are really helpful, each one has new important information. I'm learning alot from them. So please keep posting here, I really apprieciate it.

    Last edited by Infinitum; April 15th, 2006 at 07:26 AM.
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  3. #123
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    Your doing well everybody, keep it going.

    Cup of Joe - I think the extra contrast is good on the glass. I the base would be bigger though. Also you need to show the thickness of the glass more. At the moment the edge looks like it is only the thickness of a line.

    Good to see you having ago at Vigostars suggestion. I'm going to officially make it topic 5.

    Tiava - I'm pleased you like mine. You are probably right about the shadow, It may be the mistake in the elipse throwing it off.

    You chose a difficult object to draw there. I think you have done well at it. The perspective is a bit out but not by much. I think you have got the glass effect very well.

    I like the teddy. So good job on that to. He does seem smudged on one side though but that could be your scanner.

    Nsae Comp - Good job, this is a very clean drawing. I am pleased to see you have learned from your earlier attempt. The only thing I would say is that the shadow of the right hand cone seems to be at the wrong angle. Unless your light source is very close to the objects the shadows would be of a more similar angle. Good work though, I'm pleased to see an improvement.

    Orkun - Good job. It took me a few minutes to work out what it was but that is because I have never seen a pipe like that before. It looks like an accurate drawing. I think it is one of your cleanest drawings so far. Well done.

    Kei-th - Don't worry about being late. Everone has lots of other things to do so people will be late sometimes. I have had a really busy week myself which is why I am only just getting a chance to comment now. So don't worry, as long as everyone does their best then thats fine.

    Master Krepta - Good to see you doing Vigostars assignment.
    I'd say the same to you as I just said to kei-th so don't worry. Good luck with your interviews.

    jjohanson - No problem being early. Not a bad drawing, it's good to get outside to draw sometimes. However it looks to me like the curved sprinkler bit is out of line at one end. Also try and make your straight edges straighter. Use a ruler if you need to. Remember, the original designer of that sprinkler will have used a ruler to create those edges. If he intended them to be straight then you must do the same to create an accurate drawing.

    Catapult Beetle - Welcome. I'm pleased you like the thread.
    Your first one is good. The only mistake I can see is the shadow on the sphere. At the moment it looks like it is floating. The shadow would start further under it.

    Your second one is very good as well. However I expect the metal areas would have more reflections on them. You need to include these to create the metal effect.

    Your glass is quite good too. However the base and top seem to be at different angles. I know refraction probably did that to a certain extent but I think you have maybe exagerated it too much. The overall glass effect is good though.

    Tiava - Not bad, but try to make your lines firmer. The perspective is a bit out on the first drawing. The base seems to be at a different angle to the top. It can help to draw a faint drawing of the overall simple shape, In this case a cylinder, to use as a base.

    Your second drawing is better but the perspective is a bit out on this one as well. You have drawn the details quite accuratly though.

    Dile - Perspective is not always easy to get the hang of. The purpose of this thread is to help each other to improve our weaknesses. I am going to do a topic focusing entirely on perspective after the next one to help with that.

    Good work everyone. I am pleased to see so many people willing to learn.

    Last edited by Infinitum; April 15th, 2006 at 07:26 AM.
    Have faith, these things should never be easy.

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  4. #124
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    thank you ian im glad....i will send you a photo of my pipe.. it's so useful pipe

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    Heres my attempt at line only. next time i will try a less complex object when i dont have the time to devot to it. next week should be better. only one intervew to go (fingers crossed)


    "I do what I do because I dont know how to do anything else" Kevin Smith

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  6. #126
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    Orkun - No problem. I'm looking forward to seeing the pipe.

    Master Krepta - Not Bad. The perspective is a bit out and you still need to work on forming up your lines but I understand you have been busy. I'm pleased you made it on time. Good luck with your last interview.

    Here's mine.



    Have faith, these things should never be easy.

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  7. #127
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    here is my line drawing, sry I'm late.



    its the phone by the way, not the cat

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  8. #128
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    Kais - Good work. The phone looks good. The right side looks slightly wrong but that might be how it really looked.

    I really like the cat by the way.

    Have faith, these things should never be easy.

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  9. #129
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    Topic 5

    Ok, here is the next topic. As suggested by Vigostar. (Thanks Vigostar, Sorry I missed it before.)

    Quote - "Also, just a suggestion Ian. I think the next assignment should be to create boxes which should be filled with a range of value from ultimate black to pure white. Have maybe 20 boxes all equal in size and fill the boxes going from dark to light. The key is to change value from one box to the next. Sounds easy right. Well, try it and see how easy it really is. Each box should contain a noticabley subtle change in value. This will help you guys understand and get the hang of controlling your pencil and visually seeing a small spectrum in value. these boxes should be done neatly. Meaning that they should be completly filled, rendered in evenly, no lines outside of the inside square and this should all happen with your good old trusty pencil"

    I know some people have already done this but I think it would be good if everyone had a new go at it. This is a fundamental skill and so is worth doing many times.

    The deadline is - Saturday the 22 April.

    Take your time over it, Get it right.

    Good luck Everyone.


    Have faith, these things should never be easy.

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    New Artists Seeking Help Come Here - A mutual learning thread for learning the basics of drawing. Everyone's welcome.

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  10. #130
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    Yarr! Looking good guys.

    @Infinitum: I like what you've done with the place mate, are those new drapes? Just as an idea/follow-up topic, you might have us draw perhaps the same item as in Topic2 but break it into simple shapes similar to Topic1. I think this might help some people on the path to visuallizing better perhaps?
    ----

    Sorry to be the first lame-ass to go digital here, I'm going to try and redo any of these I do digitally with pencil as soon as I figure out a reliable method of "digitizing" it... maybe it's time to buy a scanner...

    Hope this doesn't look too crummy... that cylinder elipse screams noob... damn; maybe I'll even have to redo this one.


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  11. #131
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    Doodoodoo, having fun here.

    You know, I'm really not a "lines" kind of guy haha, tried to keep this as close to what I'd do with a big ol' stick of graphite, kneaded eraser and maybe an eraser shield as I could; doing my best not to use those cheap digital tricks and ctrl+z.

    An empty bottle of water in a glass with garbage in the bottom on my desk = modern art!


    Edit: Eep! Topic three is transparent object/s? ... 'doh! Maybe I'll switch em. Edit: Good lord it's hard to draw from life on a computer haha, I'm going to call it quits until I figure out how I can get good ole pencil-n-paper on here. Cheers!

    Last edited by Idiot Apathy; April 15th, 2006 at 03:56 PM.
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  12. #132
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    May I still get in on this ? This is the first time I've seen this topic. I would love to take part, I'll Try to catch up this evening and post at/before the deadline.

    ~Mr_S_14

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    ~"Fear is my courage." ~Mr_S_14
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  13. #133
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    ok, so i was inspecting this thread in search of knowledge and i decided to give it a try. Im not an art student (im a graphic design student and programmer, i plan to apply my drawing skills in digital art), but i readed Andrew Loomis books and i have improved a lot, but im still away from where i want to be.
    So heres my try at the 20 boxes, and its a really good excercise, not only to better the perception of tones, but it also helped me in doing something i never did before, in the last 6 boxes i started to use the pencil i a different way, with a very slow, firm, and long movement of my arm i apply graphite in the paper, before what i did was to give many little fast strokes, but this newer technique gives me much more control than before (control of the strokes is an issue for me, sometimes when i am on the edge of an outline, and i want to keep my strokes inside that outline, my hand betrays me and goes like crazy surpassing the outlines...).
    Ok so, watch my scale and help me improve please, thanks a lot.



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    @Christian223:

    Just because I'm a dork and was curious I took your squares into photoshop, ran a median "blur" on them to get an average value for each square, thought you might want to see what I found. I don't think this should be called all that scientific or precise but I think the relative values should still be fairly accurate. These are measured by Blackness, 0 is white 100 is black. Starting from Top-most left to Bottom-most right-
    19 27 33 39 45 53 57 60 65 70 70 76 74 75 73 77 82 80 85 83 86 ... that's 21, I guess the last one was just the paper then haha. So pretty even changes except in the middle, you might try starting with light and ending with dark if you wanted now, that helped me out when I was doing this sort of thing with paint. Peace !

    @ Mr_S_14: I'm not running the show but I'm pretty sure it's all open and all gravy, more the merrier right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinitum
    Kais - Good work. The phone looks good. The right side looks slightly wrong but that might be how it really looked.

    I really like the cat by the way.
    thank you, yes, the right part should be slightly higher to get the perspective right.
    I'm happy with my cat, except maybe with the belly, I find it too big

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_S_14
    May I still get in on this ? This is the first time I've seen this topic. I would love to take part, I'll Try to catch up this evening and post at/before the deadline.

    ~Mr_S_14

    Sure, just jump in !!!

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    Thanks for the advice, Dile & Infinitum. I'm always trying to figure out how to improve.

    Here's mine for Topic 4(Line Drawing), a RAM chip I had lying around:




    And Topic 5. Looking at it now, I think my gradient has too many darker values.




    I drew the sphere from Topic 1 again. I'm not really sure how the shadow is supposed to be, is this any better?




    I also redrew my glass from Topic 3, to try to make it straighter. It still looks skewed though.



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    A useful trick when starting out with shading and being worried with values is to make one of these gradiant boxes of about 10 in like 1 inch by 2 inch rectangles and punching holes in the center of each rectangle, so you can check your value on your drawings by simply putting it over each shade. Don't know if that will be of any use to anyone but it always helped me check that i was going as dark as i should. (Oh, and it might be easier to just cut a 10 x 2 inch sheet of paper and shade them right next to each other for this, so then youll have a tiny thing to check the values.)

    BTW, Very cool idea and thread, thanks for starting it.

    I'll have to try and get all the topics done and join up soon.

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    Oops! I guess I missed that last one. Here's #5. I may do some more of these, they're good practice!



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    Ok, im also learning, but i can give you an very good advice CupOfJoe, make sure that your pencil is really well sharpened, make it end in a point, like this ^, and use the graphite part of the pencil in an horizontal way paralell to the paper, that way you can do more uniform tones by putting much more graphite in the paper (like mine) and you wont be able to see the strokes (like yours).

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    hello.Sorry for joining so late into the lesson.Hope that isn't a problem.
    I could really use the experince i could get from here.I really need
    to nail the fundamentals before i move on to anything else.I have to catch
    up, so here i go:
    #1

    #2

    #3

    #4-I used my computer speaker

    #5


    I apologize for the fifth one.I know that you said there should have been 20
    boxes,but i could only get to 10 before i reached pure white.sorry

    this is a great idea Infinitum.good thinking

    catapult beetle-good work with the glass.you can see the design without
    forgetting that it is transparent.i also liked the detail in the ram chip

    christian223 and cup of joe-thanks for showing me what a complete
    shading exercise should look like.I'll try for twenty next time

    idiot apathy-i like the whole transparent on transpernt thing,but I couldn't
    really tell if the bottle was transparent a first glance.I thought it kind of
    looked like it had water in it,which would make perfect sense,it being a
    bottle and all.

    Tiava-I really like the teddy bear and the juicer.the Cd box was cool
    too,and the lines on the side of the jewel case gave it a sense of depth

    orkun-the pipe was realistic,but I noticed that the ring on the outside of
    the upper part of the pipe disappears when it wraps around to the other side.
    whereas you should see the ring on the other side if its transpart.

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    conductor- thanks for critics... you have to see my pipe.. if you draw transpart things sometimes you cant see the other side bec the lines so slim..

    Last edited by orkun; April 21st, 2006 at 04:31 AM.
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    Catapult, I love the RAM Chip. Its so clean and liney ^^

    Apathy, yours are also quite good, but Id really like to see if you can do them without the computer too. Computers have the nice undo-function I always miss when drawing pencil 8). Also you can more easily overdraw things when drawing on PC.

    Ill do the next topic tomorrow, today I drew some anatomic figures that I dont want to post (way too bad for your eyes ^^) but they were fun to do anyway. Since that is something I cannot do (especially faces) Id love to learn how to draw the human body. But I guess first its time for the basics anyway ^^

    There is a day when all departs
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    someday will be unmade.

    Be prepared of me these days
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    break way just as do we.

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  24. #144
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    hey guys just wanted to drop in and say hi... doing well I see... Just a general comment.. I like what most of you have done with the little assignment I gave out... catapult beetle and christian did great jobs with those but, and theres always a but. Im a tad dissapointed to see that no one other then catapult used a ruler to construct their boxes. I know you guys have rulers and I know that all of you can color between the lines so why not do it. Ok, heres the thing.... The more attention to detail you put on these sort of tidious tasks the easier it will be to put your attention to detail on artwork that you will actually want to work on. Also, moving quickly is great but, speed comes with time. So, dont rush anything. Take your time. Think about what your doing and about all the pencil lines you put in.

    Conductor- you said that you couldnt do 20 because you reached white at 10. I will be the first to tell you that you can most def. put in 20 boxes. Actually you can probably do 50 boxes if you wanted to. It takes time and most of all patience. This excersize in HS taught me so much about value and how to build up mass and volume. Most beginners have tons of trouble creating a nice looking portrait and its not beacuse their proportions arent down right its usually because their range of value is non-exsistant and they rely on smudging to get the job done. Forget about smudging and smudge sticks. Learn how to create values by pressure and cross hatching using lines.


    Ok, so heres another drill if anyone wants to take a shot. Take a blank white sheet of paper and crumble it up. Then open it up a bit so that its not a ball but, just looks like a crumbled sheet of paper on your table. It would be great if everyone used a lamp to set up their light and if you have a lamp to do so I want you to set up the light slightly above the sheet of paper but, behind it. The idea is to realize those range in values from the previous drill. Being that you are going to have tons of little creases and folds in this sheet of paper, you will realize how important the different shades are. The key here is to resemble the sheet of paper. Meaning that you have to ultimately create mass out of something that is basically flat.

    Here are some helpfull tools to get you started.
    1-draw in very lightly the general shape of the crumbled paper.
    2-Block on all the major folds. Major fold ONLY
    3-Very lightly shade in the darkest areas first while paying close attention to the other parts of your object. After this part is done you start to lay in the other major shades while moving back to the original dark shade that you lightly shaded in originally and bump up that shade one or two in value depending on how light it is. This is the format. Keep on going back and forth from the previous part you shaded to a newer light part of your drawing. If you keep on flip flopping between parts your range in values should work out. Its a tough assignment but, it will be fun. Good luck.

    Mainloop- man i must be dyslexic.. cuz i thought you asked how many people are on lsd

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    Ok, i made a nother ones scales starting from white to black a sugested. I didnt use a ruler because i need to practice the control of my hand, because i cant control it right now, please notice the hideousness of my lines, and notice the scale of the middle, the line of the top starts nice but in the middle of it it curves, and it happened in the line of bellow too!, i wanted 2 perfectly horizontal lines, and both came like mirrored version of a curved line...
    Ohh well... i think the values came right this time, i mean the one of the middle, the other ones i could finish the 20 values until black.
    Any advice is appreciated, and if you want help me more, please visit my sketchbook (signature) and give me more advice, thanks youuuu 8)



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    I found out that after the 14th box I reached the blackest box I would manage to do, so I decided to draw some between-boxes and number them in the right order so you could see a continously(is it spelled like that?) darkening from 1 to 20.
    I´d like to give you numbers like apathy did, but I don´t know how. Would be glad if you could tell me

    And yes, I used a ruler for the boxes ^^

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    break way just as do we.

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  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiava
    Id like to give you numbers like apathy did, but I dont know how. Would be glad if you could tell me
    Hehe, it's not really necessary - I was just having one of those geeking-out moments out of curiousity.

    However if your curious too - You'll need Photoshop or an equivelent, all I did was color pick the average (I did a median blur) value out of the seperate boxes and use the value scale in Photoshop to tell me the number. I don't know, it's pretty basic, if you don't know how but are still curious let me know - I'll try and find some time to do it for you, not that it takes very long.

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    Unhappy i dont understand...

    Vigostar -
    Here are some helpfull tools to get you started.
    1-draw in very lightly the general shape of the crumbled paper.
    2-Block on all the major folds. Major fold ONLY
    3-Very lightly shade in the darkest areas first while paying close attention to the other parts of your object. After this part is done you start to lay in the other major shades while moving back to the original dark shade that you lightly shaded in originally and bump up that shade one or two in value depending on how light it is. This is the format. Keep on going back and forth from the previous part you shaded to a newer light part of your drawing. If you keep on flip flopping between parts your range in values should work out. Its a tough assignment but, it will be fun. Good luck.

    can you send me a sample to me ?
    my mail orkunyuce@gmail.com ...

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  29. #149
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    Idiot Apathy - Welcome. I'm pleased you like the changes i've made. I'm planing to use more of the information you sent me but I havent had chance yet. I've been really busy this week. That is a good topic idea as well. I will use that for either the next one or the one after it.

    No problem using digital, I could do with learning alot about digital from you.

    I like your first one. Good shapes and tones. How do you get the digital to blend so smoothly? I really strugle with that.

    Your second one looks good. The bottle looks abit big to me but maybe that was how it looked.

    Good work and thanks for joining in.

    Mr S 14 - You can join at any time. Don't worry to much about catching up. I will give anyone advice whenever they do a topic. That way anyone can join at anytime and people can revisit old topics.

    Christian223 - Welcome. Your variation in tones is good. I would try and keep it cleaner but apart from that good job.

    Kais - I like the cat as it is. What was it for by the way?

    Catapult Beetle - Good drawing of the ram stick. Your lines are clean and accurate so good job. Just make sure for a line drawing that your pencil stays sharp.

    The gradients are quite good but I think you are right that you have to many darks.

    The sphere is better. I am pleased to see an improvement. I think you shding should follow the form more though. It would improve the feeling of roundness.

    Your glass is better as well.It does still look slightly skewed. I think the perspective on the top elipse is causing that.

    Well done for redoing these. It is good to see you learning from the advice.

    Gila - Good idea to put holes in the values. I think I will give that a try.

    Cup of joe - Not bad values but try to be cleaner with your lines. Take your time over it.

    Conductor - Welcome, i'm pleased you like this idea. The shapes and perspective on your first one are good. I think you should work on value though. Your shading needs darker darks and lighter lights.
    Looking at your other drawings I think the same applies. But also try to spend more time on them. As Vigostar as already said, try to think of each one as a portfolio piece. Really work at each one.

    Tiava - Anatomy is on the way, don't worry.

    Vigostar - Very good advice. Thanks. I like that idea for a topic. I will use that as one of the next two topics. Thanks for posting. I really apprieciate your help with this.

    Christian223 - I think your first attempt was better. Remember quality over quantity. Also use a ruler for straight lines. It is a myth that artists shouldn't use a ruler.

    Tiava - Not bad tones and good that you used a ruler. It is a little confusing to addd extra tones underneath. It would be better to do a new one thatn to add others to it. But still not bad.

    Good job everyone.

    Have faith, these things should never be easy.

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    ok so maybe you can tell me if i did this about the right way. I started with my "darkest" dark on one side and pure white on the other. i then went down through box 19, 18, 17 and then boxes 2,3,4 etc till i was finished. I noticed that 5 through 9 kinda look the same. would it be easier to get a good translation if i started at one end and worked my way down?



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