Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Erth
    Posts
    784
    Thanks
    36
    Thanked 45 Times in 25 Posts

    Question How would you define irony?...

    Could somebody help me here with the subject... I'm in a friendly argument with another poster from another forum to whether some things are ironic or not...

    For example, he says the Titanic, which was deemed the "unsinkable ship," sunk upon its maiden voyage is ironic... I say it's just bad luck...

    Another is from the Alanis Morisette (sp?) song "Ironic":

    "Just to play it safe
    He was afraid to fly
    packed his suitcase
    Kissed his kids goodbye
    He waited his whole damn life
    To take that flight
    And as the plane crashed down
    He said "well isn't this nice"

    Isn't that ironic? Don't you think?"

    Again he says it's ironic and I says it's bad luck (once again)...

    And another:

    "Halle Berry wins an Academy Award and the next thing she does is Catwoman. The very next year Charlize Theron does the same thing."

    Again, I say no...

    Any thoughts?...
    LONG LIVE YOKO KANNO!!!


  2. Hide this ad by registering as a member
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Practically Sarasota.
    Posts
    3,281
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 11 Times in 8 Posts
    I agree with you. Irony is more like,

    Saying your whole life you want to be a terrorist, and as you are flying to (AHEM) TERRORIST TRAINING AREA, a terrorist blows up your plane.

    That's irony.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    723
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts
    Technically irony is when a word's figurative and literal meanings are opposites. In common usage it is often used in place of serendipity, coincidence or even tragedy. So by the textbook none of those are ironic, but in its bastardized form any of those situations could be considered ironic. A technically correct example is the 80's use of "bad", meaning good.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    1,860
    Thanks
    77
    Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts
    How would you define irony?...

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    133
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    it depends, ther are multiple types.
    Often there is no more than a little plaque to reveal that, against all gynecological probability, someone very famous was born halfway up a wall.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    1,520
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 46 Times in 15 Posts
    As a literary example...try "The Monkey's Paw"
    or works by Stephen Crane.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Oakville, ON
    Posts
    1,989
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Denart
    How would you define irony?...
    I think that's the gist of it.

    To me its mostly trying to hurt or harm someone but instead of succeeding, the negative action channels back to the person who had bad intent. Or that the negative action had a positive outcome in the end.

    There's a certain sense of irony with the Titanic....but I do agree its a little bit of bad luck....and a lot of stupidity instead of irony.
    ********************************
    There are 3 sides to every story. Yours, mine and THE TRUTH.

  9. #8
    Ilaekae's Avatar
    Ilaekae is offline P.O.W.! Leader, Complete Idiot, Super Moderator
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Southwestern Pennsylvania
    Posts
    7,129
    Thanks
    8,241
    Thanked 5,581 Times in 1,789 Posts
    Is it something that tastes like a rusty nail?
    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

    Ironically, the concept of SIMPLICITY is most often misunderstood by simple-minded people. --Alj Mary

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Erth
    Posts
    784
    Thanks
    36
    Thanked 45 Times in 25 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Pixeldragoon
    I agree with you. Irony is more like,

    Saying your whole life you want to be a terrorist, and as you are flying to (AHEM) TERRORIST TRAINING AREA, a terrorist blows up your plane.

    That's irony.
    haha... That's a good one...

    Here's another good example: American troops finding WMDs in Iraq and found out that it was the same WMDs the Americans sold Saddam during the 1980s...


    Quote Originally Posted by SeraphSword
    Technically irony is when a word's figurative and literal meanings are opposites. In common usage it is often used in place of serendipity, coincidence or even tragedy. So by the textbook none of those are ironic, but in its bastardized form any of those situations could be considered ironic. A technically correct example is the 80's use of "bad", meaning good.
    I can't see those as ironies at all... Purely bad coincidences I think... He says the Titanic's timing to sink in its first sea voyage was the irony and not the sinking itself... I mean, it sounds plausible but it's hard to see the irony for me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Delight
    it depends, ther are multiple types.
    Yeah, there's situational, verbal (basically sarcasm), and dramatic (which still eludes me a bit to what it really is)...
    LONG LIVE YOKO KANNO!!!

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Erth
    Posts
    784
    Thanks
    36
    Thanked 45 Times in 25 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by darth massacre
    There's a certain sense of irony with the Titanic....but I do agree its a little bit of bad luck....and a lot of stupidity instead of irony.
    Yeah, more ignorance and less irony...
    LONG LIVE YOKO KANNO!!!

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    41
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Irony's in many forms. I mean, jeeze, there's a lot of irony in The Heart of Darkness.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    australia mate
    Posts
    1,624
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 79 Times in 25 Posts
    Irony: incongruity between what might be expected and what actually occurs; "the irony of Ireland's copying the nation she most hated"

    The titanic is ironic because they said it couldn't be sunk and it sunk, the song is ironic because he decided his fear of flying was false and it wasn't. I don't know enough about Hollywood actresses to make a judgement on the last one.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,347
    Thanks
    17
    Thanked 121 Times in 71 Posts
    Irony is being told you're crazy, then you figure out later that the ones that told you, you are crazy, are crazy themselves.

    I think irony is based on hypocrisy and having your own beliefs twisted by non deductive reasoning.
    My New Neglected Sketchbook
    You Ain't no Nina!.....

    "Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John Fitzgerald Kennedy
    "My mind is made up. Don't confuse it with facts." -- Terence McKenna

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    GA and the world
    Posts
    4,500
    Thanks
    65
    Thanked 122 Times in 63 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by NoSeRider
    I think irony is based on hypocrisy and having your own beliefs twisted by non deductive reasoning.
    Nope.

    You might be able to fit some instances in that size 4 shoe, but Seraph's explanation is pretty good.

    The Halle Berry/Charlize Theron thing is more about poor career choices than irony. All the others are pretty ironic.

    Especially Ilaekae's nail thing.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    147
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Alanis Morissette is hardly the best source for in depth linguistic understanding. Nothing in that bloody song is actually ironic (most of it is more cruel than ironic). The Titanic was more poetic justice (punishment for hubris) than irony. And the actress thing isn't irony either (it's just the tradition of movie producers using and actor/actress's name to sell a crap movie while that name is still worth something and the actor/actress earning some bread money in between the projects they actually like -- it's not irony so much as pragmatism).

    SeraphSword has the right idea with his definition of irony, but it's actually an extremely complex issue of dialectics. Kierkegaard wrote what most consider the definitive modern work on the concept of irony and it's called (coincidentally enough) On The Concept of Irony. If you're really interested, I suggest picking up a copy at a library (or maybe online, not sure what the copyright on the Hong translation is, but it might be available for free). Over 600 pages of in depth examination on the subject of irony and the ironic. It's a great read (like everything Kierkegaard wrote).

    Some truly funny examples of irony can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony, as well as some discussion about what is and isn't ironic. Nothing definitive really, but interesting.
    Last edited by MEP; March 25th, 2006 at 12:48 PM.
    -------------------------
    In the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "I drank what?"

  17. #16
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    74
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by MEP
    Alanis Morissette is hardly the best source for in depth linguistic understanding. Nothing in that bloody song is actually ironic (most of it is more cruel than ironic).
    I've always been of the opinion that this was intentional, and the true wit of the song. I may be giving Alanis too much credit, but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. Seems to me that she's been pretty consistent in playing these little tricks on the public.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Philly PA
    Posts
    3,389
    Thanks
    108
    Thanked 1,478 Times in 470 Posts
    American troops finding WMDs in Iraq
    I don't want to throw a gigantic tangent in here, but you're saying this as a hypothetical, yes?

    in your initial post, I say yes to the first, eh to the second, and no to the third (don't even know where he's coming from on that one)
    "Every little step considered one at a time is not terribly daunting" - Ethan Coen

    New books and process DVD available NOW!

    www.dvpalumbo.com

    Quickie blog (nudity)

  19. #18
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    4,047
    Thanks
    644
    Thanked 1,274 Times in 408 Posts
    a bunch of idiots dancing around on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,207
    Thanks
    8
    Thanked 20 Times in 18 Posts
    there is no irony, thats why it tastes like chicken
    Last edited by EVIL; March 29th, 2006 at 04:13 PM.

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Posts
    2,287
    Thanks
    3
    Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Slash
    a bunch of idiots dancing around on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash.
    Bingo!

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,173
    Thanks
    22
    Thanked 101 Times in 37 Posts
    Hrm...

    - 21 people being caught and drowned in a wave of treacle (moving at 60 km/h) from a ruptured tank in boston in 1919. Rescuers had great difficulty moving through the treacle.

    - Stanley and Theresa Janus died whilst mourning the death of Adam Janus, killed by a tylenol tablet laced with cyanide by a tamperer, from inadvertently taking the same poisoned tylenol.

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Erth
    Posts
    784
    Thanks
    36
    Thanked 45 Times in 25 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DavePalumbo
    I don't want to throw a gigantic tangent in here, but you're saying this as a hypothetical, yes?

    in your initial post, I say yes to the first, eh to the second, and no to the third (don't even know where he's coming from on that one)
    Yes, yes... Of course... Hypothetically speaking...

    About the third one, I pondered about it a bit, I think he meant that it was ironic that Theron would follow Berry's footsteps to making a bad film after winning an award for Best Actress... But, yeah, it doesn't sound ironic at all...

    Edit: Why is the first one ironic?...

    Quote Originally Posted by Slash
    a bunch of idiots dancing around on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash.
    I dunno.... So say if I'm driving while listening to a song by Aaliyah, who accidentally died in a car crash, that automatically makes it ironic?!...
    LONG LIVE YOKO KANNO!!!

  24. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,066
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seba_boi
    I dunno.... So say if I'm driving while listening to a song by Aaliyah, who accidentally died in a car crash, that automatically makes it ironic?!...
    no the irony with the dancing fools where "if they had crashed" when dancing to lets say buddy holly. not if they where just dancing.

    just the same if you had crashed when listening to aaliyah when driving whould be irony. it whouldnt be irony if you just where listening to that band, that whould just make you a driver with bad music taste


    read alot of childrens fables then you get a grip of the concept of irony. they use that alot in them books.

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,260
    Thanks
    48
    Thanked 233 Times in 68 Posts
    [QUOTE=Slash a bunch of idiots dancing around on a plane to a song made famous by a band that died in a plane crash. [/QUOTE]


    slash, stop watching movies and go draw ;p

  26. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Erth
    Posts
    784
    Thanks
    36
    Thanked 45 Times in 25 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Mort
    no the irony with the dancing fools where "if they had crashed" when dancing to lets say buddy holly. not if they where just dancing.

    just the same if you had crashed when listening to aaliyah when driving whould be irony. it whouldnt be irony if you just where listening to that band, that whould just make you a driver with bad music taste
    Man, actually, I thought I had a good idea of what irony is... But now I'm more confused than before... Especially after reading what Wikipedia has to say...
    LONG LIVE YOKO KANNO!!!

Similar Threads

  1. How do you even DEFINE Art?
    By monkiblade in forum Art Discussions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: August 9th, 2011, 07:57 PM
  2. Art: There's plenty of Irony in photography!
    By Irony in forum The Art of Photography
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: December 14th, 2007, 11:40 PM
  3. SketchBook: +Irony's Sketchbook+
    By Irony in forum Sketchbooks
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: December 1st, 2005, 07:26 PM
  4. This is how you spell IRONY. HAHAHA
    By darth massacre in forum Artist Lounge
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: November 25th, 2005, 12:20 PM
  5. Irony Ahahahahahahah11111
    By Jason Manley in forum Artist Lounge
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: October 24th, 2003, 12:03 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

There are no members to list at the moment.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Designed by The Coldest Water, we build the coldest best water bottles, ice packs and best pillows.