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  1. #1
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    do you believe in horoscopes?

    or does it sometimes happen you read a horoscope and think it's crap but somehow it happens anyways?

    f.ex.: i read i would be at my most creative,and i just thought "yeah,whatever" (because i'm currently not drawing as much),but later on,what happens? bam! i produce on of my best pics to date.

    ok,this may not be an optimal example (as a devoted artist i should probably be at my best everyday ),but i hope you get my point.

    so,do you believe in horoscopes?
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    Romance is likely to be the focus for you today. Both Jupiter and the moon will conspire to keep your mood unpredictable and fickle, but a positive aspect influencing your ruling planet will mean that you’ll be radiating charm. Just don’t break too many hearts today, Taurus!
    I'll take "Fucking Bullshit" for 400 Trebek!

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    i love all patterns in life. as a past student of philosophy and psychology, i've drifted away from belief in anything Truthful. i tend to be eclectic, believeing in whatever fits my fancy and personal code of "truth".

    answer: sometimes.
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    Let's see my horoscope for today is:
    When the difficulties indicated by last weekend's clash between Mercury and your ruler Mars first arose, you expected the issues would be sorted swiftly. However, you've since learned that certain misunderstandings are as ancient as they are complex, which means you'd best be prepared for the lengthy discussions that will be needed to untangle them.
    Point-by-point Translation:

    1. There was some kind of difficulty you faced last weekends. Well duh. How many weekends go by in your life when at least one thing doesn't go wrong?

    2. Whatever the problem is, it didn't go away on it's own. Okay... so far nothing terribly insightful.

    3. You wanted it to resolve quickly. Unless you're some kind of masochist, this applies to everyone.

    4. It didn't resolve as quickly as you wanted to and you had to do something to fix it. Batting .1000 so far.

    It's like fortune cookies. "You will find love". Well, yeah, someday.

    Horoscopes are usually accurate because horoscopes are usually so incredibly vague that they could easily apply to anybody at any time. But they're written in a personal, conversational tone that makes them feel personalized when really, they're just the same general life advice repeated ad nauseum.

    I prefer the I Ching myself. It's not about prognositication or prediction. It's about listening to and interpreting your intuition. (yes, I know some people believe it's mystical, but for me, it's just the medium I use for communicating with my gut instincts which is all most divining tools really are -- a testament to how smart our guts can be when we listen to them).
    -------------------------
    In the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "I drank what?"

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfacto
    I'll take "Fucking Bullshit" for 400 Trebek!
    haha,well i check more than one if i have the time.
    (and not everyday)

    mep:how does the i ching work?

    edit: and i admit i don't really believe in them (because they seem too generic),but sometimes some things make me consider my actions more.
    Last edited by Carnifex; March 21st, 2006 at 03:10 PM.
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    It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Robot and I collect different free newspapers on the way to school and then pick the horoscope we like best, that says something about how consistent they are..
    /fd
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"

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    They always seem to fit me so perfectly...even the other signs lol. I think they're very general.

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    Tristan Elwell
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  10. #9
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    Post The Book of Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnifex
    mep:how does the i ching work?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Ching

    Basically, the I Ching is a manual for interpreting hexagrams which are randomly generated via various traditional methods, the most common being the casting of coins or dried yarrow sticks (though random number generators are fine for modern users -- I used to have one on my Palm). Once, you've generated a hexagram, you look up the pattern in the I Ching and see what it has to say about your current state of affairs.

    Some of the lines in the hexagram can be classified as "moving" or "unstable" which means that they can be inverted to determine the "future". A good I Ching reading interprets both the generated hexagram and the "future" hexagram.

    But the descriptions of each hexagram are written like the Bible... you can read anything into it if you really try hard enough. Each description contains a load of general advice that basically represents millenia old philosophical pondering. The portions of each description that stick out most to you as you read them depends heavily on your state of mind and what you are already thinking about.

    Thus, you could choose any hexagram you want at random, and the text would probably feel insightful. It's not about the forces of nature or mysticism moving the hexagrams for you in a way that actually means something. It's about turning off the analytical part of your brain for a minute or two and listening to your feelings. As you read the I Ching, you develop an emotional response to some parts and not to others. You're not interpreting the symbols so much as you are interpreting your own emotional reaction to the symbols and that makes it truthful in the sense that you at least know something now about yourself. And self-knowledge is always the first step to accomplishment.

    That's also why the I Ching is usually so accurate when people use it. It's not telling you anything. You're telling yourself everything that you read in the I Ching, it's just a medium for communication with yourself that enables people to be a little more honest with themselves.
    -------------------------
    In the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "I drank what?"

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    I believe in nothing which attempts to predict the future.

    Have a research on "cold reading" Carnifex. Horoscopes are written in a similar vain.

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    Yeah, I HATE horoscopes, palm reading, fortune telling: anything that takes your money and "predicts" stuff. Total BS.

    It's always the same. You'll find similarities in anything if you're looking for them.

    What kian3001 said: Cold reading. People will fall for it everytime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell
    A very good read, as were the links in it, thanks.
    The Forer effect is awesome.
    /fd
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does?"

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    only matters of science can be falsified. in fact, that's a defining aspect of science - its theories and paradigms can (and will) be falsified. thus, whatever scientifical proof one can find for or against matters pertaining to humanity's Mythos, they will all miss the mark.

    astrology, like the existence of God, is true to whomever believes. "belief" is to Mythos as "proof" is to Logos. and both are matters of perception.

    i find it comfortable to steal or borrow from both sides according to what suits me the best in every moment. in the same that i dress myself according to the weather, i adopt the mentality seemingly best suited for my surroundings / situastion / temperament. we are many-faceted.

    thesis > anti-thesis > synthesis
    mythos > logos > chaos
    myth > science > life
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    Horoscopes don't work for me. When I was born, the stars were in different positions and so the astro figures were different. I think I was born under either the Squid in a Bucket or the Chevy Impala...
    No position or belief, whether religious, political or social, is valid if one has to lie to support it.--Alj Mary

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    Quote Originally Posted by squidmonk3j
    only matters of science can be falsified. in fact, that's a defining aspect of science - its theories and paradigms can (and will) be falsified. thus, whatever scientifical proof one can find for or against matters pertaining to humanity's Mythos, they will all miss the mark.

    astrology, like the existence of God, is true to whomever believes. "belief" is to Mythos as "proof" is to Logos. and both are matters of perception.

    i find it comfortable to steal or borrow from both sides according to what suits me the best in every moment. in the same that i dress myself according to the weather, i adopt the mentality seemingly best suited for my surroundings / situastion / temperament. we are many-faceted.

    thesis > anti-thesis > synthesis
    mythos > logos > chaos
    myth > science > life
    I more or less agree with you. If you can't conclusively prove something either way, then it's true to you if you believe it.

    EDIT: Wait, all I did was summarize your post. Why did I write that?
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    horoscopes are self fulfilling prophecies in someways, but i do look at my past horoscopes to see if they where right, sometimes they are scarily accurate. I'm a very superstitious person, if any of you have seen drugstore cowboy, i'm like that superstitious x10.

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    I've always thought they were worthless - I'm about the polar opposite of what Libras are supposed to be...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobin
    i do look at my past horoscopes to see if they where right, sometimes they are scarily accurate.
    *****
    Quote Originally Posted by Floris Didden
    The Forer effect is awesome.

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    i was so inspired by the blatant uselessness of horoscopes I made a web site dedicated to defaming the mockary and abuse that this sort of thing does for vulnerable people with a credit card (psychics, tarot cards, list goes on guys).

    They tell you what you want to hear and are pretty vague.

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    Well I find stuff like that interesting, but I'd say it's 50% bullshit, and 50% whoah! 'Cause at new year, me and my cousin went to see a psycic just for a laugh, to see what happens, you know? And she sussed out things about my family which were wrong at first, like....totally wrong, but as she went on she said stuff which was actually quite true, eg. Parents splitting up, and that I move between parents etc etc. Quite a lot of dissagreement from my dad when it comes to my career choice. That is certainly true...cause I want/ hope to do art, but my dad wants me to be a doctor or ....somthing important. : S So that shocked me quite a lot....And she figured out things about two of my male friends, she described one of them in detail....it was rather freaky....cause, well, he.....um....

    But...I think people like them have studied psycology or somthing and know all about very subtle facial expressions and body launguage, and they can make stuff up too. And maybe guess it right.

    so my answer is...... I don't know : S

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebecca
    me and my cousin went to see a psycic just for a laugh, to see what happens, you know? And she sussed out things about my family which were wrong at first, like....totally wrong, but as she went on she said stuff which was actually quite true,
    Classic cold reading.

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    IMO, what any type of prohesizing all comes down to is the law of averages. If they make 4000 fortune cookies that say "today you will buy a new car", chances are at least one of the 4000 people who get one of these cookies plans on buying a new car. so theyve now made a beliver out of him/her. Its like how people said nostradamus (as well as other ancient prophets and oracles) predicted year 2000 to be the end of the world. thing is, several prophets also predicted it to happen in the year 1000, 3000, 4000 and so on. chances are, one of these guys made a lucky guess and will get it right.

    also, consider a horascopes ability to affect the sub-concious. If you get a horascope that says"you will have a good day today" perhaps, out of a desire to belive in such things, you will make a sub consious efffort to stay upbeat. you wont allow petty things to bother you, you will walk around with a smile on yourface, and as a result, the horascope has become truthful through your own efforts to make it so.
    "The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain,
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    which is probably a good thing isn't it?
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    Yes, but the thing with these future-seeing mumbo jumbo is that there's always people who start to treat it more than just a bunch of encouraging words and proceed to get in your face towards everybody about their authenticity.

    Those motivational posters (albeit corny) are a much wiser investment of people's time.

    Heh, Elwell, you go to Skepdic too?

  26. #25
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    Horoscopes are like placebos.

    That's not to say that placebos don't work.
    -------------------------
    In the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "I drank what?"

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