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  1. #1
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    What happens when you ask if its paid work

    end of the arguement, now i hope we are all the better for it.
    Last edited by alti; February 14th, 2006 at 10:57 PM.


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  3. #2
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    you forgot to blank out some of the names

    long and interesting read.

  4. #3
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    Damn. You're not alone on this, that guy /was/ acting completely out of line. That's the attitude I get too sometimes actually when folks present me with ideas and I decline because it's not paying work. I can only do so many freebies before it starts eating up my time I can use to..oh I dunno...earn enough to eat.

    The thing about this convo that astounded me was he /kept going/. Wow...that guy will never get anyone to work for him if he keeps /that/ up. Honestly if I were in your situation I would blacklist that guy and his associates and warn others. If they're that immature from the get go imagine what they'd be like if there were artistic differences in the project?
    Last edited by Necronomicouch; February 14th, 2006 at 04:36 AM.
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  5. #4
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    yeah i was blown away by the nerve..

  6. #5
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    WoW this guy gave a great impression of what kind of employer he is. What really ticks me off is how he gets pissed when u mistakened the job for pay. And on top of that he wants to test your abilities, if he was intrested in the first place he would have already seen the work you've done and new your capabilities. I think tricking you into some free work

    And on the other hand you gave yourself a bad impression posting this. Blowing the horn, posting this conversation with a possible employer is not a good idea. This was a private conversation between 2 people. This is not good buisness etiquette. -would u want other employers seeing you post this stuff?

    Maybe if you posted breifly what happened it would have been okay.

  7. #6
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    i got the dudes permission he was fine about it.

  8. #7
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    That was interesting... Funny how you missed that one name...

    I think you caught up with him on a bad day...
    LONG LIVE YOKO KANNO!!!

  9. #8
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    i personaly was realy annoyed with this dude, just where he starts on about me being a money hungry artist.- maby just plain hungry, but give a guy a break, i politly asked if it was a paying gig, because i was on the lookout for anything..

    seba boi - yeah there was a ton of text to go through, but its sorted.

  10. #9
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    I don't think that's what Kresh was getting at. It's not to matter whether you edited his name out or not, but the fact that you went so far as to bother posting the entire conversation on a forum makes you seem unprofessional too.

    I can understand your frustration and need to vent - especially when you're under a heavy work-load, trying to make ends meet and someone gets all self-righteous on you. But maybe a simplified version of the conversation would have been enough to get a thread going.

    It seems you missed the other person's name a couple of times, better edit it out - you don't want it to appear to be left in intentionally.

    as should Necronomicouch.

  11. #10
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    hahaha oh man...

    "********** says:
    If the only reason you take work is because its paying, you will never be happy.

    Alti says:
    yeah but i need to pay my rent,

    ********** says:
    Money while it is needed, never will bring you true happiness and fulfilment. To get where you want to go, you have to take risks."


    nice of him to go Tyler Durden on you I'm amazed how you managed not to block him after the first few minutes

  12. #11
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    Holy crap...

    Apparently this guy knows the meaning of life and happiness: working for free for him.

    Too bad his eternal happiness doesn't involve an eternally filled stomach.
    My work: [link]

  13. #12
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    look, i would think it to be unprofessional to if i just threw this online without asking the dudes permission, but he wanted to see peoples responses too.

  14. #13
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    That's clearly someone a working artist would never fully see eye to eye on with. Although I think I grasp what his point is. It's just a little over bearing and self righteous for my tastes. I've encountered that 'tude before. But to be honest if I had a project I was working on I'd want talent who felt strongly about what I was doing, working with me (without hobbling their own input and experience, of course). At the same time I wouldn't be put out if someone asked if it was a paying gig. Nor would I piss in their cornflakes over the inquiry. A professional should expect to have to field that one.

    Hey, at least you know now that you never, ever want to work for this dude
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  15. #14
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    I think that is good that you posted this!

    I have been working freelance for years and still get surprised when I find out someone I know did some work for free, no matter how good a deal may sound I always want to get paid at least minimum wage, why would I give away my work that aside from the time I spend on working on, I have been learning and gaining experience for years, that to me is worth a lot!!

    Reading this, whoever the employer is, him getting so upset because you don't want to work for free? as if that is a bad thing!, makes me upset!, and I don't even know who you are alti.

    And I disagree on the comment that posting this makes you seem unprofessional alti... there are a lot of young artists out there who have the talent, but do not know how to make deals with employers and just reading this can give them a heads up to watch out for people like this, believe it or not, there are people out there who know they can get artists to work for free or for a lower fees.
    Last edited by sepulveda; February 14th, 2006 at 03:18 AM.

  16. #15
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    its unprofessional no matter if he says yes or no. Its not wise to shit where you eat.

  17. #16
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    come on kresh- a complete random starts mouthing off at me while i'm at work and i cant show people..

  18. #17
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    alright I wasnt trying to bust on you or anything. You do have every right to be mad.

  19. #18
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    I'll say this much. If you're getting this much hassle to even find out if it's paid work, it's not worth it.
    * Help a CA artist! Visit the Constructive Critique section! *



  20. #19
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    Edited my post to leave the name out. While Kresh /does/ have a good point, I wouldn't even go so far as to call this individual a potential "employer" if he had no intention of paying in the first place. To me this whole situation reeks of "will u draw mai charactur 4 free? No? YOURE A BITCH!" which is something I come across all too often. At any rate, I would have ended the conversation /long/ before Alti did to avoid something like this.
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  21. #20
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    What was that quote? 'Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience'

    We had a douche like this in irc, it was quite funny. He offered shitty rates then said we were all greedy and lazy because people got pissed at him...then he told us to get real jobs and said we were a starving artist cult and I was a terrorist and things like that. Anyway I was super nice to him the whole time and he just got more and more ridiculous...so be nice no matter what and they'll show what an idiot they're being.

    I find it crazy that people expect artists to work for free because they like doing art...would you ask a mechanic to fix your car in his or her free time because they like their job? People are assholes....be nice anyway.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Necronomicouch
    At any rate, I would have ended the conversation /long/ before Alti did to avoid something like this.
    yeah, im impressed by his patience.
    very dumb creature that work-because-you-can guy
    //we are just vaudevillians!
    And dont you ever forget that!

  23. #22
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    Dude,

    You carried on that conversation way longer that I would have. Once I found out the job didn't pay I would have said said "OK, bye" and logged out.

    I almost seems like you were trying to convice him of the error of his ways. I once heard a saying: "You can't teach a pig to sing. You'll only annoy the pig and frustrate yorself in the effort." Don't give these idiots more of your time than they deserve.
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  24. #23
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    either he was having a bad day or he's a geniune idiot

    I know it happened to me once, in IRC. I went on in a discussion like i was the retard from outer space, then a couple hours later i came to my senses and was like "wtf?". By then the damage was done though.

  25. #24
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    everything from you finding out its not paid seems like the biggest waste of time ever, what came out of it, nothing. i would have just ended the conversation when he started gatting all noob on you.

  26. #25
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    You know what's unprofessional?
    Negotiating a job through IMs.

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  27. #26
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    i know what you mean elwell, but the conversation was started by this dude, i was just minding my own buisness.

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell
    You know what's unprofessional?
    Negotiating a job through IMs.
    I thought I was the only one who thought that.

    Not to mention any means of communication that breaks up your thoughts and you end up responding to the 2nd to last or 3rd or 4th to last thing the other person said is a great way to get into fights in general...

  29. #28
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    for me its just a cheaper alternative if i allready have the persons contact, i mean international call rates are tough, but most IM programs have voice wich is handy too.

  30. #29
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    What a maroon. I stopped reading about halfway through. I'm sure he didn't get any smarter in the rest of the conversation.
    "Every generation sees the past though the lens of its own time." - Thom Hartmann

  31. #30
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    Hmmm...

    I am the person he was talking to. I admit I was heavy handed in my delivery of my thoughts. But, I am also a working freelance artist, a writer. I know how it is hard to sometimes find work and keep food on the table. That is not where my beef was. If you read my words closely and unbiasly (hard to do on a forum full of starving artists, like myself), I was offended at the fact that he OFFERED to work on MY project. I never asked him to work on it.

    He seemed very eager to work on the project, UNTIL he found out it wasnt paying, and shrugged it off. Now, if he had merely asked if it was a paying project, I would have responded much differently.

    Also, I just got home from Borders, where I was reading about various creators coming to together to work on a project they believed in and turn it into a successful movie/film franchise.

    I work with, and have worked with top industry professionals all for free. Why? Well one, I believe in a collaboration, each artist brings something equal to the table to achieve a singular goal. I bring the creativity, direction, story and writing ability, and the artist brings whatever their specialty is.

    Do I believe all artists should work for free? Well, of course not! None of us could support ourselves. But there is a difference between working for a company and working with fellow creators to create something great and worthwhile.

    I do apologize if I offended, but hopefully you can catch the meaning behind the words.

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