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Thread: School: To All

  1. #1
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    School: To All

    Does everyone feel like school is a big waist of time? I get home and I'm learning twice as much as when I'm in school. Not all of school, life drawing and anatomy are ace, but some of my other classes are just a time sink... *sigh* in theory they seem like they should work but the formulaic redundancy is unbelievably oppressive. I try to make the best of it but having to do hours of busy work is ridiculous. I'm trying to get my homework out of the way so that I can then study art, what the &UCK is that all about?! Is it just me, seriously, or are there others who feel this rut...

    Two Einstein’s of truth.

    Albert Einstein
    The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.

    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.
    Albert Einstein

    ras

    EDIT: Rant= bad spelkling./
    Last edited by rasdasa; February 10th, 2006 at 08:58 PM.
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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by rasdasa
    Does everyone feel like school is a big waist of time?
    here's the real deal:
    School: To All

    if your school doesn't resemble this, then perhaps you need to look closer at what it can offer .

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    Masque... LOL

    I've asked the same thing but I've invested a lot of money already. The art institutes are kind of like "Art Tech Schools". I've not heard great things but that's an option. The skill level will only increase if you do your own shtuff tho. Hands down. You've gotta apply the stuff to your own work. Learn on your own. School can only do so much.

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    Spelling aside, I feel like that quite frequently, rasdasa. Not so much this semester, since miraculously, two out of my four classes are tremendously useful and a third has ins and outs of usefulness. The fourth goes from being tolerable to being horribly bad.

    Overall, my experience with art school hasn't been great. I've felt exactly like you do. Having to finish my homework so I can get down to actually learning things.

    I think the problem isn't only with art school. It's with the liberal arts too (english, philosophy, history, etc.) won't prepare you for the outside world.. getting a job, becoming a freelancer, actually making a living.

    Just the other week, my painting teacher went off on a rant at me when I said I wanted to gear my projects towards my portfolio (I'm graduating at the end of the summer, and I want to have some newer A-material, right?). She asked why I was there, and said she thought my school was a great education. Painting was about playing and working and exploring. Not about portfolios and making a living. She'd had so many students in the past that went on to become doctors, teachers and lawyers. I said that's great for them, but I want to be an artist.

    The biggest problem with art school is that, in my experience, they seem to actively discourage the students from learning about the practical business of becoming artists. In addition to that, they don't teach the people who want to how to do marketable art. Little wonder so few are able to figure it out.
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    I learned a ton in school and I'm still learning two years after leaving, so... I don't know. It all adds up?
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    Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one. Creativity is not endorsed by many of the faculty in my school, but the ones who do support it are rays of light!
    It's a shame how something which you hoped would make you the artist you wished to be begins to somehow hold you back and become an obstical to your goals.

    ras
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    I find most of them are very open to creativity so long as it's their sort of creativity. Your own be damned!

    Rasdasa, where do you go?
    Art is long and time is fleeting

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    Quote Originally Posted by rasdasa
    Does everyone feel like school is a big waist of time? I get home and I'm learning twice as much as when I'm in school. Not all of school, life drawing and anatomy are ace, but some of my other classes are just a time sink... *sigh* in theory they seem like they should work but the formulaic redundancy is unbelievably oppressive. I try to make the best of it but having to do hours of busy work is ridiculous. I'm trying to get my homework out of the way so that I can then study art, what the &UCK is that all about?! Is it just me, seriously, or are there others who feel this rut...

    Two Einstein’s of truth.

    Albert Einstein
    The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.

    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.
    Albert Einstein

    ras

    EDIT: Rant= bad spelkling./
    People go to school to learn how to learn, if you're able to constantly recognise what news things you need to keep track of, learn them without supervision and be able to systematically test yourself to evaluate the effectiveness of your own learning (this is required for success in every industry) - then school really don't have much more to offer you.

    Try enrolling yourself in a tertiary institute, depending on your age however, you may have to produce evidences of your maturity and competence. You'll have to talk to a career guidance counsellor about that.

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    sorry 'bout the spelling tease, ras, i had this image i couldn't escape. damn Muse can be a nag

    i understand your angst, maybe it will help to know that it happens outside of school, in the career world as well, from time to time. the questioning thing, i mean, like "whot the hell am i doing here? WhereTF am i going?"... it seems to be a fairly natural human condition to be uber-dissatisfied with current state of affairs now & then.

    as a kid i would have sold my soul (FWIW) to finance art school, but had no buyers, so you have a big plus just being there, believe me. i'm interested what it is you're learning at home that you feel is more valuable, and what it is at school you think is useless?

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    Tully: precisely, it's so formulaic it's mind numbing. I can't tell you what school though, I feel guilty doing that! Seems unfair, especially since I like the head of the school. I can say that I speak to my friends who attend other institutions and feel the same way, that's actually why I came on here, to see just how many were going through this.

    Jeri: Thanks for the info. It's more about the mass mentality. Everything is dumbed down so while there is plenty of work it's incredibly mind numbing and undeveloping. How do I know? Because when I get home and apply myself I learn 3 times as much as I do in most of school.

    Masque: Goos sir, don't worry about the joke, it brougth a grin to my face. Anyways, There is nothing in school that I'm learning that is useless, it's just not time as well spent as it is when I get home. As I said earlier, some of it is ace, like life drawing, and Anatomy, but some of it is all too rigid, all too confining, such as our approach to cartooning. It kills me. I have a sketch book that has some of the stuff I do on my own time, if you'd like to see what I do at home. Which is pretty much just further study.
    http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=58180
    Leave some crits!

    Recently we've realized that our teacher would rather have it that we were quiet than to laugh in cartooning class, and I don't mean HAHAHA(loud and obnoxious), I mean a simple laugh of delight and then quiet again... it's just not healthy.

    ras
    Last edited by rasdasa; February 11th, 2006 at 08:52 AM.
    Don't hate, fornicate!

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    school is what you make of it. It's not the end all-be all of learning as you well know, but it can have tremendous value for both your career and life in general... as long as you use the opportunities it presents to you as best you can.

    Yeah , sure it sucks to have to go through the tedium... but all the better to prepare you how to cope with life outside school... which I assure you has it's own brand of tedium.

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    I've got my share of dissapointments as well. Unlike what i had been doing most of my school life, i went to art school in hopes of actually learning.
    If you take out painting, drawing and comp assisted drawing (this year) classes, all the rest of my work load (about 70%) is useless, both this year and the last. To be fair, i have a design class that has it's inns and outs of usefulness, but that's about it.
    There's that classic argument that everything will contribute and nothing is really useless. Now, in other circumstances i might agree, but for a while now there's just one thing i wanna say regarding that: fuck that shit.
    Learning how to print on copper plates might not be 100% useless, but in my time frame, the effort it takes (the kind that is starting to give the kind of pain dicussed in the stress related injuries thread a while back), and the fortune i'm paying for something i hate while i could be doing something better with my time... sorry but i'm getting bitter, not convinced.

    I feel bad too because there are some great people there (teachers and students - even the ladies at the cafeteria are great), and they don't deserve all the resentment i'm building up. As for the rest of them, well, they fit in there just fine.

    There's one little fact i've grown used to these past two years. Art schools are about money, and they don't really care wether you're learning or not. You can learn a lot there and the credential factor might help, but all the bullshit you have to put up with in the meantime, more and more i'm thinking it's not worth it.

    sorry for the long post

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    K-17, that's EXACTLY how I feel. It's simply the fact that I could be putting my time to better use. Yes, I'm sort of learning, but I REALLY have to search for it, and it's not nearly as effective as when I get home and study or get some real constructive crits off of here or my friends. If there wasn't a diploma waiting for us at the end of it all, I'm sure many of the serious students wouldn't be there. It's one thing to try out new things to expand your horizon, and a whole other thing to waist a whole school year over it. It's the money factor, not just that I'm waisting my time but also so much funds to hardly learn anything in relation to what I'm doing at home. School is what you make of it, but as Tully stated above, even when you try to make the best of it there is still individuals who will try to assimilate you into the flock and hold you back from expanding and bringing your own focus to your studies. This obviously isn't the truth in every institution, but it does seem to be common enough.

    ras
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    Take it easy now guys, hehe.
    When I went to High school, I majored in Technical Sience and Maths. After that I realised that I wanted to do be in advertising. "man so those 3 years where a waste!" I thought to myself. Continued to GD school, only again to realise that I wanted to to art. "Man another waste, an on top of that, it was pricey as hell, I hated it, my class was shit, as my teachers etc etc" Its only now afterwards, that I realise that I draw ideas from all my knowledge EVERY day, when I create, and make desicions etc. Even though right now you may feel that its crap, and you dont understand why this and this is important to know, you will most likley make something out of an idea realted to that knowledge at some point. Now you sound like little kids whining "School is crap, all we learn ais shit like algebra, when we could use our time for more fun stuff. I like sports.
    Embrace all knowledge for gods sake. No matter how useless it seems now, you will use it at some point in your life, even if it be it subconcius.
    Man, what a rant. Does it make any sense?
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    I get what you're saying timpaatkins, but at the same time, I think that if you're a dedicated person who knows what they want to be doing and are paying your school however many thousands of dollars per semester to teach you things, they should try their damndest to teach you what you're there to learn and get you ready for the real world. Not everything is teachable in that area, but at least they could attempt to get you ready. I've actually had a teacher at my school ask my class "Why the hell did you come to art school? Almost nobody can make it as an artist."

    Most of the students in my school can't draw for crap, unfortunately. They might be able to, but the teachers in the place don't teach us how! Any skill I have, I've gotten through the minimal life drawing I've been offered and under my own steam (and with CA's help). They teach as though they know that everything they're teaching will be useless in a practical sense (which might be fine in high school, but when I'm three months away from actually getting into the real world, I need some actual preparation), and not only celebrate that fact, but actively discourage us from doing practical things. Pisses me right off.
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    timpaatkins

    Sorry, but saying you'll draw from whatever you had in the past just doesn't cut it. And that's a beatiful argument too; you just can't ever go wrong when you say it. Yeah, i'll probably draw from from all that crap in the future (assuming i don't quit first), just as i'd draw from something worthwhile, if i had it.

    And if calling crap crap makes me a kid, well shit, no wonder the whole adult run system is so screwed up.

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    Wow, personally I'm completly blown away by this. I LOVE my school. Sure it's an ass load of money, but in the semester and a few weeks I've been here everything about me has grown. My art most defintly has improved a mass amount as well as how I think about things.

    Even my bullshit art classes have helped me. The community of people around me is the greatest. Even though CA is great, it's infinitly better to have a real community around you. People who room right down the hall who you can spring ideas off of, where CA you compete with 30,000 other people for attention.

    I've always been fairly dedicated when it comes to my art, but I'd still be drawing like I was last year if it wasn't for the direction I've gotten here.

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    school is more a waste of money than a waste of time. I think you can learn as much from a decent art program at a regular university as you would learn in an overpriced art school. it all boiles down to how hard you work at it and how well you use the resourses your school provides you.

    the only real important part of art school that you will not be able to get by bypassing school is the contacts you make. you never know, maybe that girl you dated junior year that sucked at drawing feet turns out to be the art director at the new yorker in a few years.

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    I'm not saying every school is bullshit. Just mine in particular. I don't know about the rest.

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    Everyone thinks their school is bad and other schools are better. Everyone also thinks their professors and program planners are out to screw with their future. The fact remains, schools cannot cater to every individual's needs....that would be the ideal situation...tailor make every curriculum for every individual, but it cannot happen when you have 100 students in every intake with 100 levels of difference in abilities and 100 different expectations.

    Also, all schools are the same, or at least are run in similar ways (unless the school is privately funded and owned and have no tax or government/industry guidelines to worry about). I've been thru an art college in Singapore and I'm now in a college system in Canada....despite 12 time zones and a huge cultural difference, the way the schools were run looks remarkably similar.

    I enjoy my time in school. What I don't get, I make up for it with my personal projects. I read 5 times more than when I was stuck in the industry 2 years ago (I already read a lot back then) and I have time to explore other things in life.

    Maybe I'm on a different level with Einstien, but school hasn't killed my curiosity.....it actually helped increase my thirst for information.



    PS: Though I have to say, the best school ever is out there in the industry. You hang around other talents long enough and you'll be forced to improve because of the interaction, the awe you have of your fellow artists and the deadline which your clients (boss) demands of you. And best of all, you get paid!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by darth massacre
    Everyone thinks their school is bad and other schools are better.
    I didn't say that either. If they're all crap then that's the way it is.

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    Alright, as would be expected, there will be as many who disagree as agree. As each school does differ, so does each faculty , and each professor.
    All Tully, K, and I are saying is that even though we might be learning something right now, our most precious currency, that of time, could most definitely be put to better use. I spent 7+ hours this week, I swear I'm not exaggerating, 7 hours+, using cartoon figures and with tracing paper fitting simple forms over them as overlay.. that's for cartooning, obviously. 7 hours of that. 3 hours in class, and a rediculous 4+ hours at home... and we are already 3/4 of the way through the school year. This isn't first week of school!
    Time well spent? Not for everyone....

    That's not a "it might all pay off in the future" that's a "7 hours I'll never get back" feeling. If you are focused, you know when you're learning, you can feel yourself assimilating and growing. Doing that exercise above I felt like I was vegitating, fuk, I knew I was vegitating.
    I get home for the weekend and feel my sketching is rusty. It's an individual thing, obviously some totally agree others feel the exact opposite, and so to each their own.

    ras
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    I might have to disagree on that most precious currency thing.

    It's probably just my school, which is ridiculously overpriced (i'm not saying this out of spite, really), but it's quite a blow to the wallet here at home. It ought to make it easier for me that my parents are paying for it, but it weighs on me every time i think about it. If i didn't have to answer to them that they might be wasting their money, i might've quit already. It's becoming more of a question of what i'm most afraid of than what i want more. I know it's something i gotta deal with though.

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    One thing that I'm suprised hasn't been brought up...What is your other option? Leave school? for what? You never have the amount of free time you do while you're in school. Once you get out, you spend most of the day doing what other people want you do to, whether you are going to learn anything from it or not. If you get that "thats 7 hours I'll never get back feeling" from your school work, how do you feel about the 8+ spent at work everyday. Even in an art related job, you're going to be doing plenty of shit that you think is boring/uncreative/shit. One of my coworkers and myself have been warned at work about "arting up" some of our work too much because it looks better than some of the other stuff and thus isn't consistant with the rest of the crappy work.
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    Precisely. Most of us are all out of options. Thus, we bitch.

    Sure bitching probably won't change anything, but not bitching won't change anything either, so might as well vent at least. Is that a wrong thing to do in this board?

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    Quote Originally Posted by K-17
    Is that a wrong thing to do in this board?
    Not at all, 'speciallly since it's lead to a good discussion with a number of viewpoints and attitudes. I'm particularly interested in student's opinions of the value of an art school education because my daughter is looking to possibly attend one next year, and my finances are meager at best. The cost/benefit ratio is a major concern for me. Obviously each school will have its own pluses/minuses, but from reading a number of posts on the subject, I am getting a notion that art schools are in general overpriced for the benefits they convey, and that an Art major at a liberal arts college isn't necessarily all that undesirable an option. I obviously have to research more, but I value the opinions of those who are experiencing/have experienced a contemporary education in visual arts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K-17
    Sure bitching probably won't change anything, but not bitching won't change anything either
    Bitching alone won't change anything. But don't bitch and you explode It's all good.


    @ Ras - Which school do you go to?
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    Tully,

    Do you go to NSCAD?

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    Romance: Sure do. How did you know? It's a hell of a step up from Mount Allison Fine Arts Dept where I spent my first two and a half years of university, but the same problems are still apparent in many areas. Illustration class and human anatomy are my saving graces.. they almost make up for all the crap I've had to do for the past few years.
    Art is long and time is fleeting

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthogua
    One thing that I'm suprised hasn't been brought up...What is your other option? Leave school? for what? You never have the amount of free time you do while you're in school. Once you get out, you spend most of the day doing what other people want you do to, whether you are going to learn anything from it or not. If you get that "thats 7 hours I'll never get back feeling" from your school work, how do you feel about the 8+ spent at work everyday. Even in an art related job, you're going to be doing plenty of shit that you think is boring/uncreative/shit. One of my coworkers and myself have been warned at work about "arting up" some of our work too much because it looks better than some of the other stuff and thus isn't consistant with the rest of the crappy work.
    That seriously blows man, but remember, at least you are getting paid for it and not paying an arm and a foot for it. That's what makes it even more frustrating. Also, there are jobs that are alot more challenging in the real world, I'm not talking about wantintg to do what I want as in wanting to draw only monsters, I just mean that I don't feel like I'm growing while doing this, but school is exactly where you are "supposed" to be growing, not being captured in a bubble of diluted art. Fine, school will never cater to all, totally understandable, but then gives us the freedom to focus our projects more upon the styles and ideas we wish.


    darthM, I can't tell man, it's one thing to vent here but another to bring an unfair view upon a school that can't defend it's self. Besides, there are faculty members and classes I trully appreciate at school, it's just a shame that so much of it is a waste of time in my eyes.

    ras

    edit: spelloingk
    Last edited by rasdasa; February 12th, 2006 at 08:24 PM.
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