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  1. #1
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    Transparent brush strokes and color mixing in PS/Painter.

    Hello all, I have a sort of specified question about transperancy in brush strokes in ps. Traditionally with acrylic I can thin down the paint and slightly change the value, color, and transperancy of the paint. But in ps I'm not sure how to achieve that.
    I'm going to experiment with it right now changing the flow and opacity options and hopefully that gives me the look I want.
    Technically I know that it's best to paint the right stroke withe the correct color, value, and shape the first time around and I try to do that, but sometimes I just want transparent strokes (almost as if I diluted the paint with water) to add subtelty.

    Color mixing:
    After messing around with the color window I've chosen to stick with HSB mode. (Hue, Saturation, Brightness)
    This has been the easiest way for me so far to be able to mix the correct color and value I'm looking for, but sometimes it doesn't seem to work the way I want it to.
    For instance, with traditional paint, if I want to add a little alizarin crimson to my paint, I do so and it subtely changes the hue, but with ps I'm not sure how to achieve those soft color changes. I guess I'll have to play around with how ps handles color.
    Most likely it's due to my inexperience, so I guess I'll just have to stick with it and in time I'll get the hang of things.

    If anyone has any suggestions on brush/color options or know of any way(s) on how I can get these brush/color effects please let me know, I'd appreciate it.

    thx
    -ink
    Last edited by I.was.ink; February 2nd, 2006 at 04:00 PM.
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    its easy, and will improve your piece greatly."


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  3. #2
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    use the number keys. 1 changes opacity to 10... 3 changes to 30... and so on. very fast and good to use.

  4. #3
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  5. #4
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    I.was.ink, mate do yourself a favor and try the Painter IX demo:Clicky

    You'll find it much more akin to traditional painting not only in the brush types but the mixing and control.

  6. #5
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    One thing I do with the Color palette is set the color ramp on the bottom of the palette to "Current Colors." (Click on the little arrow in the top right corner of the palette to change this.)

    This will set the color ramp to be a gradient between your currently selected foreground color and background color.

    So... say you have a color that you want to add more red to. Double click your background color square and change it to red. The Color palette will now show a gradient between your color and the red color. You can pick anything along that gradient that has the amount of red you prefer.

    I also use this when I'm thinking, "I want a color that's a mixture of THAT color and THAT color." I just pick the two colors with my eyedropper (one as the foreground and one as the background) then I use the gradient to pick the mixture I want.

    emily

  7. #6
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    is there a way to imitate the blending that occurs with Artist Oils in Painter for Photoshop? thats really the only reason i use painter these days

  8. #7
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    Chris: That's a really helpful tip I didn't know existed.THX!
    Seth: Yeah, I know about th ewet edges option, but I still don't exactly like how it looks, but what I need to do is add it to only a few set of brushes and I think it'll help. Thx for the reminder.
    Idiot Apathy: I already have painter 9. I really like it, but I still can't get it to work how I want. I do love the palette knife though.
    Emily G: I HAD NO IDEA YOU COULD DO THIS! I have got to try that. I always think to myself, "I wish I could mix deep hookers green and light blue violet like I do with acrylics and I just don't know how."
    Then, BAAM! you give me the answer.....thanks!
    James: I actually paint on several and it does help a bit. I'll keep that in mind.
    Main Loop: I'd like to know that as well, but I think by messing around with brushes I got something sort of close to the paint stroke I've been wanting. It's not perfect, but it helps.

    I was looking at Ashley Wood's MGS paintings/drawings and some of the time I can't tell what's digital and whats not. So I adjusted brushes, downloaded some, played with the settings and found some settings I like.They're not perfect, but they're pretty good for what I'm looking for.
    So I cooked this up while looking at Ashley Woods pshyco mantis.
    Transparent brush strokes and color mixing in PS/Painter.
    I'm pretty pleased with the overall mood and textures.
    I think things are starting to work.
    I'll just have to experiment more.

    If anyone has any more tips and tricks for anything related please let me know.
    Thanks
    -ink
    -http://iwasink.com/-
    DS Illustration
    "Get reference.
    There is nothing wrong with using a photo to help you see things.
    No one complains about life drawing,
    so take a photo.
    its easy, and will improve your piece greatly."

  9. #8
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    which leads me to a question...

    for you digi artists out there, I see alot of piece in grayscale and then finished in color. Is that a common technique or is that just some pieces I've seen which began as a sketch and then the artist decided to take things further?
    "Every little step considered one at a time is not terribly daunting" - Ethan Coen

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  10. #9
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    It depends on how i feel really. sometimes I just right into color but I still make a grayscale copy to flip on and off as I paint the color one so I can fix value problems. One thing I highly advise is to use the HSB sliders so that you can work faster, see everything in numbers, and paint accurate saturation, hue, and value. TO use the HSB sliders just click the little arrow thing to the top right of the color tab and choose use HSB sliders.

    If you havent used them before you might not like them but use them and get used to them because you will benifit greatly from being able to loook at something and say it's 40 percent value and so on. It trained my eyes to be really accurate.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by I.was.ink
    Color mixing:

    For instance, with traditional paint, if I want to add a little alizarin crimson to my paint, I do so and it subtely changes the hue, but with ps I'm not sure how to achieve those soft color changes. I guess I'll have to play around with how ps handles color.
    Amonitor doesn't have all the colours that the real world has. Even with millions of colours (or whatever) it's not "real". It's different a light that you see. So it will always be somehow different. Texture is not real on a monitor as it can be on a canvas (and thick paint,...). And so on...
    It always will be different. It's just something to get used too.

    And on the mixing (a similie): Photoshop don't mix paint like in real life. Real paint get's "dirty" (mixing many different hues and values) and works different than changing hues in Photoshop. The hue change in Photoshop is more like having millions of slightly different hues of pure paint on your palette. It's not exactly like mixing. Again something that you just have to get used to.

    Edit: a little example: you have a dark blue colour that you want to change a little. If you add a bright red then you won't just change the hue in real life but change the value and saturation at the same time. With digital you can just change one without even affecting the other two. /Edit

    That are just my impressions when comparing "analog" and "digital".
    Last edited by _Mario; February 2nd, 2006 at 06:41 AM.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavePalumbo
    which leads me to a question...

    for you digi artists out there, I see alot of piece in grayscale and then finished in color. Is that a common technique or is that just some pieces I've seen which began as a sketch and then the artist decided to take things further?
    It depends on personal preference. (not talking for myself, since we know how far I have to go...) I read how Bobby Chiu worked on one of his CGTalk challenges, he got all the tones and values in greyscale and colorized it.

    I changed the host. Can you see me now?

    Transparent brush strokes and color mixing in PS/Painter.
    Transparent brush strokes and color mixing in PS/Painter.
    Last edited by glikster; February 2nd, 2006 at 04:03 PM.

  13. #12
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    These are all great points fellas.
    Mario: What I do want is my paint to get dirty like it does in real life. Since ps won't do that, I may have to give painter more of a try. But thanks for the info, I never thought of ps having the ability to change one without changing the other. That's an advantage right there!
    Glikster: the pics aren't loading.

    About painter: With painter I can get the dirty brush strokes and the color mixing a little better (depends). But what I still have trouble with is making the paint come out just right. It either comes out in a big globs, or soft little marks. It doesn't seem like I can control the pressure all that well.
    Maybe I just have to play around with the settings.
    I like the palette knife cuz of it's subtlety, but I also like the oil pastel, but it seems to be really opaque.

    The other thing that's overwhelming is all the options they give us. I've heard that the pros just stick with the basics like, the airbrush, square chalk, oil pastel, and palette knife. What are your settings for these tools?

    thx
    -ink
    -http://iwasink.com/-
    DS Illustration
    "Get reference.
    There is nothing wrong with using a photo to help you see things.
    No one complains about life drawing,
    so take a photo.
    its easy, and will improve your piece greatly."

  14. #13
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    hwat i do in painter is use the aritsts oils and put the blend and wetness pretty high, like 60 to 70 percent. i start on a neutral tone cuz when the strokes blend with the bg they give you the temperature change you want. if you take the pen off the tablet on every stroke you get pure color, but if you keep it down it'll keep blending with what ever you put down before

    im still trying to figure out how to do strokes like this:
    Transparent brush strokes and color mixing in PS/Painter.
    but i can get pretty close

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by I.was.ink
    About painter: With painter I can get the dirty brush strokes and the color mixing a little better (depends). But what I still have trouble with is making the paint come out just right. It either comes out in a big globs, or soft little marks. It doesn't seem like I can control the pressure all that well.
    Maybe I just have to play around with the settings.
    I like the palette knife cuz of it's subtlety, but I also like the oil pastel, but it seems to be really opaque.

    The other thing that's overwhelming is all the options they give us. I've heard that the pros just stick with the basics like, the airbrush, square chalk, oil pastel, and palette knife. What are your settings for these tools?
    It looks like painter fits your workflow (but you still should learn some things about PS because it can do things that painter can't)

    About the big globs/little marks: That sounds like you have pressure "stickied" to both size and opacity. Try looking in the painter forum here. IIRC a guy from Corel (or a tester) put some great brush creation info and explained how it works.
    And don't mind all the options. What matters is that you solve your problem. Need some sketching? Look for tools to do that easy and fast and practice until you know some shortcuts and fell secure enough so that you don't need to look for the right menus in the programm (Just forget that there are som many options). And slowly learn to expand from there.
    Like with traditional tools. For your first sketching you didn't really need ten different mechanical pencils and a bag full of normal pencils (and thousands of erasers). Start with a small toolbox.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Main Loop
    im still trying to figure out how to do strokes like this:
    http://www.paperblue.net/bbs/data/pa...and.escape.jpg
    but i can get pretty close
    You get those strokes with the "sargent brush". I think you find it in the "artist" brush category.
    Btw. thats a nice painting. Who is the artist?
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  17. #16
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    Does anyone know if any of the Newer versions Photoshop will be able to have colors interact and mix on the canvas as they do in Painter?

    -JtJ

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaTheJames
    Does anyone know if any of the Newer versions Photoshop will be able to have colors interact and mix on the canvas as they do in Painter?
    I don't think so. Most people who buy it need it for image editing, not "creation".
    Graphic designers/photographers/magazine illustrators have a different workflow than traditional illustrators/concept artists. And with other programms like Painter and SketchBook Pro they (Adobe) have a hard fight and know that people still use Photoshop because they need it for stuff that PS can't do. And the PS brush engine has some good things that you can't get with Painter that easily (and they probablydon't want to destroy that). So just changing things to please a few (because many already got used to the PS workflow) looks less likely. They will probably just buy Corel and integrate Painter in the CS family

    PS: I don't know if SketchBook Pro has the "interactive paint" feature of Painter but I think they have a trial (or personal learning edition) of SBP somewhere on their site.

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