Art: Hel- Norse Goddess of Death

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  1. #1
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    Hel- Norse Goddess of Death

    Hi all, I've been crazy busy finishing up at the studio with Marvel Ultimate Alliance (will have a big download of images created for that as soon as legal clears. I decided to revisit this piece, based on all of the crits and comments sent in about it.
    I added some tweaks to lighting, details to her armorand the dead portion of her face so it reads better. I redid the sky in the backdrop to be more congruent with the overall piece and punched up some core shadows and secondary light sources as well.
    The writing in the bottom I also changed from English to Norse Ruins. For those who don't read Nordic symbols all that often- It is basically the name of Balder -the god that Hel waits most patiently for to fill that headstone.

    I also worked on the helmet quite a bit, to fix some of the misreading issues and give it less of a football helmet shape.

    Regards,
    Gangus

    Name:  Hel_sm.jpg
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    Last edited by emily g; July 28th, 2007 at 02:12 AM. Reason: Made serious revisions to work
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    awesome, simply awesome

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    looks really good, but im not liking the dodge tool look to the highlights. Its too white.

    cool headdress design.



    mike

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    great image, she definitely looks like a pagan death goddess! the only thing that's not working for me is her face. I think it's the helmet that's throwing you off. try painting on a new layer and ignore the helmet nasal. once you're done, copy/paste the nasal back in.

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    That kicks so much butt. Loving it. I understand bee-dubya's point though. Without the nasal the eyes would seem to close and to far to the left of her head. Off to lose myself in your website now...

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    I do not know if you are useing "clouds" for sure, but i think you are. right now them and any difference or wierd layer settings you have is distracting and muddying it up. I would sudgest to flatten it and then paint the same colors back over the top so it at least looks more like brush strokes. also give it more fully hard edges, like her shoulder, the gauntlet, the bird heads, and the horns. use your 100% white sparingly, like, i mean a few dozen pixels total in your picture, it will give your art a much deeper and broder visual range. and the small parts that are white will really "pop". skin actually absorbes light and refracts it before comeing aout, going throuhg blood vessils on the way.

    That said, the art you are doing is difficult and skilled, and i am a big fan of your "filling Vallhala" I showed it to a bunch of friends.

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    Looks great, although after reading bwkeough's comment I do notice something odd around that area. The helmet looks like it changes perspective, with the half on the left appearing straight on, and the other half angled more in the direction of the head.

    Anyway, awesome rendering.

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    The "two face" look is an interesting take, though her upper torso in myth is supposed to be "living" and the lower half "dead." I'm kinda bothered by her tits hanging out since nudity doesn't seem like a Norse motif (like it would be in southern cultures like Greek and Roman). Ah well.

    I like the detailing and the overall texture of the piece.

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    I like alot of things in this painting but, something about it is not connecting. Im having a hard time trying to figure out whats going on in the BG for one. Is that her cape or mountain type thing? Also, you have alot of great detail going on here but, I think alot of it is getting lost due to the lack of hard edges. I think that mayb certain parts need to be broken up a little bit. Like where the helmet meets the face for example. of evn parts of the helmet, parts of her arm bands and clothing. Like those straps going around her chest. I love all of the lower half. what you did with the skulls, the hand, an whatever it is shes leaning on. Everything that Im telling you may be a personal taste thing. But, i think alot of it can really pop with some hard edges and some nice contratsts. I really love your work BTW and the complexity of your subject matters. I only hope one day I can execute paintings the way you do.. Thanks for sharing

    Mainloop- man i must be dyslexic.. cuz i thought you asked how many people are on lsd

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    wow! nice work Glen. I wish I could say the same about the weak ass crits that are given here and on other threads. 'cmon you guys do you post stuff just to be posting stuff without giving much thought? Sorry Glen for using your thread to vent.

    Skin absorbing light through the blood vessels? wtf?

    no "tits" in Norse motif? you're kidding right?

    Try harder. type less, draw more.

    There was much rejoicing in the realm of the Harvest Gods when man created the beer, light could not penetrate.
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    Very well done!

    !darkchild!

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    mcotie: Show me some bare-breasted babes in ancient Norse art. I'm all eyes for ancient arts.

    Why are getting offended at critiques to someone else's work anyway? It's fine if you don't agree, but don't take it personal. If you have that much time to get worked up about it, then you need to take your own advice.

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    um hang on, I don't think the ancient norsemen spent much time painting pictures of anything, tits or no tits. if they did, google's image search for "ancient norse art" finds a whole lot of nothing online.

    it could be that a viking for 1000 years ago would find this representation of Hel vulgar, but who's to say that Hel isn't in the mood to shock and disgust?

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    This is just a nit pick, but the coffin should say "Baldr". Why would the norse anglicize it?

    Höðr wouldn't have a coffin that said "hod" on it after all. Just like my grave will not feature an anglicized version of my name.

    And for name stylization, I wouldn't have made the round parts quite so round. The futhark didn't feature rounded characters of any sort.

    In fact, I'd even have gone so far as to have written Baldr in runes.
    http://members.aol.com/JehanaS/futhark/runes.gif

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    bwkerough: Carving seems more their mode of expression, with mostly plant/animal/design work going on (occational human designs, just not as many). Greek/Romans had tons of nudity in their art, so I expect that in work depicting their gods...I was just saying it was weird to click on a link to a pic of Hel (who I adore) and see something I'd associate with a different culture.

    That certainly doesn't mean that it shouldn't be done! It's just not what I was expecting.

    Negafen: Ooo, runes are a good suggestion. I hadn't even noticed the "Balder" inscription before--it's a very nice touch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mirana
    mcotie: Show me some bare-breasted babes in ancient Norse art. I'm all eyes for ancient arts.

    Why are getting offended at critiques to someone else's work anyway? It's fine if you don't agree, but don't take it personal. If you have that much time to get worked up about it, then you need to take your own advice.

    Last I saw this aint ancient art; it was painted a few days ago. It 's a new painting with new ideas. If Gangus were to paint this in ancient norse style all we would see is a bunch of dogs, birds, and flowers with their legs, necks, and stems twisted up in an artistic style pillaged and raped from the ancient Irish.
    My beef is with the flaccid critiques across this forum. When I first joined you could get good beefy crits from artists that had a portfolio that rocked and you didn't feel offended by their points. You understood what they meant by just by looking through their work, their posts. In my honest but humble opinion, If an artist on this forum steps over the line to offer crits, they must be prepared to back up their argument with some examples. dig it? You could get nice solid well deserved praises without clicking away from a thread feeling like 20 people just participated in artistic oral sex. Now it seems like the only "quality" éloge du jour is "Dude you roxor my soxors". Or my favorite is "You suck. I hate you for being able to draw so good". Talk about wasting time. When I take time to read stuff like that on this forum I want to reach through the internet and strangle the lost time from the jackleg that posted it.

    I'm pissed and this thread set me off.

    and as far as having time... what the hell is that.

    mitch

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    I really like the vulture headdress, nicely done, but the shine on the right edges of the helmet(our left) just seems confusing. Also, the helmet seems to be twisted to her right. it doesn't actually follow the centre line of her face. If you flip the canvas horizontally this might become more evident to yiu. Anyways, thanks for sharing.

    ras
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    absolutely great

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    I love it when people use animal skulls in their work it gives it an exotic,classic feeling.

    Some details draw the attention away from the face like the bright pink on the vulture heads and the bright white spot on her nipple. Looks a bit like the vulture heads were more important than the girl.

    "Create like a god, command like a king, work like a slave."
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcotie
    wow! nice work Glen.
    Um, Mcotie, I dont much want to get in on this argument, but technically, that was all you said. So isn't your crit "weak-ass" as well? How about before you critique other peoples critiques, you say something worthwhile...

    I really, really like this Gangus. A very unique headdress and cape design. I've heard it said her living half was her upper, but the split faced idea makes a point just as clearly (if not more... I wouldn't notice if a woman had dead legs, personally)

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    wow, so different from your other painting, man so bad ass, please post more

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    Glenn your stuff is always amazing and inspirational, love the fantasy stuff keep it coming, your stuff for X-Men Legends was also pretty great. I could never achieve your level of work but it does make me work harder. Also just wanted to say hi - it's Jason Erina - one of your old GD students from Windsor, you were always a great help when it came to illustration, technique, and your insight and knowledge was a great help to me so just wanted to personally say thanks.

    cheers, jay

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    Those are possibly the most terrifying nipples I have ever seen. Love the colours and those skulls

    My only real issues with the piece are the face/helmet relationship and that lettering. The helmet looks like it's pointing in a different direction to the way the face is and the nosepiece looks like it's too close to her face to actually allow her to have a nose. The lettering isn't bad or anything, but it's pretty obvious that you used a font. I think it'd look better if it were actually painted is all.

    Art is long and time is fleeting

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    Quote Originally Posted by Territhyme
    Um, Mcotie, I dont much want to get in on this argument, but technically, that was all you said. So isn't your crit "weak-ass" as well? How about before you critique other peoples critiques, you say something worthwhile...
    touche.

    It would appear that way wouldn't it?

    But before I pass the salt and pepper to add to your foot before you shove it in your mouth, I'll let you know that I already gave Gangus a few crits on that piece before he even posted it in this thread.

    mitch

    There was much rejoicing in the realm of the Harvest Gods when man created the beer, light could not penetrate.
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    Wow, the tension. as for the actual artwork, I love the texturing. Man, I have to hand it to you gangus, you really know how to make a painting come to life. As for the tit popping out, who cares if it is accurate. Last i knew this was gangus's interpretation, and if he wanted an exposed tit, by God let him have it. Thank you for going against the grain. Very masterifully done, man.

    -darkgenius

    Last edited by darkgenius; January 29th, 2006 at 02:50 AM.
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    regarding critiques

    I do not know why, when I post - it brings out all types of reactions
    and controversy.

    In all honesty I post for the following reasons:
    To get meaningful critiques, and use this forums' fresh eyes
    to catch something that I miss on a piece as I may be too close to
    a painting to see myself. For example - On my last post (Thor-triumph and defeat)
    someone pointed out that the hilt of the hammer was pointing away from the viewer and the head was facing the opposite direction.


    The other reason I post (and I can be truthful about this) is to get involved
    with the art community and get my name out there a bit more. Plus- it's
    selfish- but wanting to raise the bar for myself and this forum to impress it's members is the kind of inspiration I need with a full time job and two young children to raise (It's tough to keep pushing in my older years- Any help for inspiration- I'll gladdly take, and certainly not pretend that the "oohs! and ahhs!" are not apreciated)

    What I believe rightfully pisses Mcotie (and myself) off are those "critiques that are posted (perhaps not purposefully) to cast a negative light or misdirect on a work, when they are based purely on personal bias or lacking in substance, or just plain old expressed poorly and not backed up.
    Saying that the head bothers you for some reason you don't know why - isn't a crit!
    If you see something that doesn't look right think about it some more
    and/or have a little faith, sometimes I think people here are more willing to accept interpretations based on the name of the artist who posted:
    If you want my explanation of it ask: The helmet doesn't sit perfectly (and boringly) symetrical as half of her skull is withered and decrepid, consequently if you really want to be technical there would be no way the
    center of her nose piece being centered perfectly. This might change how you feel about the piece or better spark in myself a way to make it clearer.

    Just saying you don't like something isn't good enough in this industry.

    As for throwing out comments like "tits hanging out",
    One they are called breasts, calling them tits cheapens this and much of the other work on this forum, and as darkgenius aptly put "who cares if it is accurate, last I knew this was gangus's interpretation" I also get a kick of how so many people know what Viking gods looked like - with horns without horns, nude or clotherd, etc.
    Last I remembered
    I don't recall the Discovery channel special of when scientists unearthed the lost city of Asgard.
    If I get another comment like that I might just go totally crazy and make my
    next painting of God, but paint him as a woman!

    If I were to go to "Manu is Malins's" highly rated and coveted 5 Star (I'm reminded of the "Seus's" sneetches) post of "purple flight"
    (here's the link: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57892)

    and posted a comment like:
    "I believe the 2nd rabbit piece is just way too repetitive, and you use way too much white (more than umpteen pixels worth!!), plus if there were that many rabbits together they would be mating, as everyone knows that rabbits are so horny -so you obviously didn't put much thought into your piece"

    Even though personally his work just isn't my personal preference- I would never dream of turning his thread into a negative spiral of misdirection based on my own personal bias. If I did, I hope there would be an Mcotie to smack me in the mouth.

    It's bad enough Manu has to suffer elusive comments like:I don't know why your work effects me so much. and so forth.


    Critiqing is just as much a form of art as art itself. There is a great deal of learning to be done when teaching, and this forum could focus more on this.
    It's not that I am a suck and can't take crits and I certainly don't believe that my work is beyond reproach - I believe the amount that I have been willing to change elements of my previous works on this forum should bare some warrant on this account.


    This post probably won't make me too popular here, but
    kiss'n ass is certainly not how I want to make it in this business.
    I'll check back from time to time, who knows maybe I'm addicted and I'll be back to post for more shillackings one day

    Thanks to everyone who posted with positive critiques and apreciation on my previous pieces.


    Regards,
    Gangus



    PS - Thanks for writing Jason E, it honors me that you feel I had helped you so much, please send me some of your recent works so I can see the progresses
    you have made recently.

    Last edited by Gangus; January 29th, 2006 at 10:44 PM. Reason: spelling mistake
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    Mcotie- with all due respect but, I honestly do not feel like the only persons that should be allowed to post crits to the pros are other pros or artists that are on the brink of. some people may not be able to articulate their words as well as others be we all try to do our best. For instance I am not familiar with many termanologies within the art community but, I try my best to make the artist understand my point. Yes, there are alot of people that say things with no substance but, there are tons of pros that do the same as well. I just think if the idea of "not being able to crit unless you can draw" is a poor example of what this forum stands for.

    Gangus- my apologies for using your thread as an arguement post. Your artwork is fantastic and I hope that this post doesnt hinder you from posting here in the future. I for one never like to crit the pros because of examples like Mitch with his "you better have something to back it up" comment. The only reason I offered a crit was because you seemed so receptive on receiving crits on your last Thor post. In any event I apologize once again. Hopefully this arguement was enough for it to not happen again.

    Mainloop- man i must be dyslexic.. cuz i thought you asked how many people are on lsd

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    Her breasts look like it's part of her armor. Make it look fleshier.

    THis is a nice one, though. I feel you can improve on this.

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    While we're on the subject of "personal bias" let me point out that I there was no negativity in my post. It is the two of you who implyed some animosity to the comment.

    I didn't say you SHOULDN'T paint it, I didn't say it LOOKED BAD. I said it bothered me because I hadn't seen it as a Norse motif before. A comment which included things I liked about the piece as well as praise for having a "different take" on the character. My comment was with quite a bit of consideration and included my first reaction to it--which was surprise after I scrolled down. If my wording was somehow misleading, I made sure to clarify later.

    As for "misdirection on a [comment]," the great thing about being a chick is that I can call something I have (TITS.) any damn thing I want to. The last person who should be offended is a guy about his ficitonal, 2D representation of a woman. Next time I'l just call them "two sacks of fat and glands--one of which is rotting off her rib cage" (or is she mummifed?) and see how well that goes. It's just a word--you're the one who put your own meaning to it.

    I didn't even take offense to anyone else's comments and was having a perfectly fine time discussing. I've commented on your works in the past and loved them. However, if the two of you are going to get all soap box on me about a casual comment that was no personal attack, or negative in any way, then don't be surprised if you don't get kind words in response.

    What the HELL, boys? Your comments are totally out of nowhere.

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