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  1. #1
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    Kojima- "Games Are Not Art"

    Interesting article, though not the full version, a good read.

    http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?op...=2098&Itemid=2


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  3. #2
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    Have the utmost respect for Kojima. Metal Gear Series is one of my favourite games of ALL TIME. but gonna have to somewhat disagree with him a bit on this one .
    I think video games ARE a form of art, I think the same thing applies to movies. It's just a matter of media that gets a message across. Goes all the way back to the old "how do we define art" question though.

    Thanks for sharing!
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    Well, brainwashing garbage has to be artistically conveyed. Humans think in the abstract and defining art is the silliest pursuit. My personal opinion is all.
    "They were born, they grew up in the gutters, they went to work at twelve, they passed through a brief blossoming period of beauty and sexual desire, they married at twenty, they were middle-aged at thirty, they died, for the most part, at sixty. Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer, and, above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds."

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    Odd, but I see where he is coming from, and I agree. Sorta. Thought it is a very general statement, what he says, I think it's right. especially about the car. It depends on how you view the word "Art".

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    Restricted to his definition of art, nobody can really argue against him --- a product to him cannot be art, and he considers games as a product.
    I’m in no position to define what “art” is, but I do consider design to be a different beast than art --- and to me games are design, they are for audiences/consumers, so I can see where Kojima is coming from.

    “A videogame should make sure that all 100 people that play that game should enjoy the service provided by that videogame.”
    There’s just so many complications that come from that mode of thinking ----- is an orchestrated symphonic score for a movie no longer art, if it’s purpose is to service the emotion and pacing of a film for hundreds of people? Was Michelangelo’s interior paints for the Sistine Chapel not art, if the purpose was to aid in prayer and service the beliefs of hundreds of churchgoers?
    There’s much of what many consider art from all types of mediums that must be accessible, designed, and serviced to hundreds of audience members --- If those are not art are they now design, or just entertainment?

    I certainly consider interaction as a form of art, and I’ve played many games that can draw from that art --- but again, that just might be me and my entertainment (is “fun” art?) …… But, at the end of the day, Photoshop is still the best damn videogame I’ve ever played.

  7. #6
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    Even though the headline is the same as roger ebert's babble, it's meaning couldn't be more different. Kojima's statement isn't meant to bring down the concept of video gaming, it's just looking at it from a different perpective.

    Personally it doesn't bother me. I've come to hate art more and more ever since i got into art school.

  8. #7
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    It's funny, because videogames are comprised of almost entirely art.
    The conceptual illustrations.
    The musical scores.
    The script writing.
    The direction in FMVs...

    I personally think videogames are the ultimate medium to bring art together.
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  9. #8
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    Well actually, if you're gonna look at it that way, the form of art that sets video games apart isn't even any of those. Way i see it, it's the interactivity aspect that can really be defined as video game art. The ability to create a game system that will be as engaging and enjoyable as possible. That's what's inherent to video games, which no other art form has. It's also the one thing technology can do that can't be done any other way. My most idiotic teacher can go babbling about how using a computer to paint or draw or make a movie isn't art, but i don't see how he could ever say anything about programming. Unless he goes and says it's not art, which wouldn't surprise me.

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    I was going to say that he was wrong, but in the end, he's actually right. Games can be art, but I don't think I've played one that felt like it yet. Closest I've come to that in games is Diablo, for the way it immersed me in the atmosphere.

    I suppose I should try Ico and Shadow of the Collosus, since they seem to be lauded as such.

    It's also dependant on the person's perception of the game, so it's personal opinion based on your play experience.

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  11. #10
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    Well if you think about it everything is a art the way you talk could be considered art ex poetry or music lyrics and those are both products and art. Also look at art that is printed ...... lots of ppl love the prints are they just a product. He says he runs a museum but setting up the pieces in an exibit it self is a art form if you think about it .... you cant just trow up painting on a wall lop sided and were ever you like. And in a video game you need to grab the attention of your gamers like a good novelist and your levels or areas must appeal to them like a good painter. Video games are art no matter how you think about it not every game will appeal to every person just as not every piece of printed art will appeal to every person.

    Theres my two cents. Just cuz it a product dosnt mean its not art.

    Ink Monkey

    btw I just went up and read the rest of the comment ..... pretty much what Im saying lol.

    Artistic games imo

    1st Silent hill - awsome atmosphere.

    Monster hunter..... yeah monster hunter .... for its kick ass creature design and wicked armour design. The game play is pretty good to ... just got to get use to it abit.

    Final fantasy VII - for its awsome engaging story and fun game play.

    one more before I head out, a recent addition to my collection.

    Shadow of the Colossus- Amazing creature design and exelent enviroment design..... the mood and atmosphere of the game brings it all together <------ prime example of artistic game...... this one like ICO dosnt appeal to everyone but those who do appreciate it LOVE IT.

    K Im outa here Peace all.

    Ink Monkey.
    Last edited by Ink_Monkey; January 23rd, 2006 at 07:27 PM.
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  12. #11
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    A game, as a whole (looking at all of it's componants together) is not art. It is an interactive transient experience, with little to no reflective qualities (an intrinsic ingredient to art).

    However, the individual aspects of a game (concept illustrations, musical scores, etc.) are or can be considered art.

    ~Oreg.

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  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oregano
    A game, as a whole (looking at all of it's componants together) is not art. It is an interactive transient experience, with little to no reflective qualities (an intrinsic ingredient to art).

    However, the individual aspects of a game (concept illustrations, musical scores, etc.) are or can be considered art.

    ~Oreg.
    I have to disagree.
    I guess it depends at how you're viewing it. Some people who take abstract art at face value will see an abstract painting as a bunch of scribbles. Some people don't see games as art. I guess it still boils down to the age old "what is art?" question.
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  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfacto
    I don't think I've played one that felt like it yet.
    You sir, need a copy of Hallife 2.

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    I'm gonna have to say I'm with Oreg and Kojima.

    Can you consider a game such as Battlefield2 "art"?? Hardly. It was built for a specific purpose. To bring together like minded gamers in an environment where we get to kill each other in the virtual world. The individual elements are art of course. The entire effort to put it together is also an artform. But the whole package itself is just something for me to enjoy.

    Ultimately a videogame's purpose is to entertain. Entertainment doesn't always have to be artistic.


    You sir, need a copy of Hallife 2.
    Halflife 2 was overhyped. In fact I was disappointed when compared to the "smash in the face" I got when I played the first one. I had the original Halflife on my HDD for 3 years. I had Halflife2 on my HDD for 3 months.
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  16. #15
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    Shadow of the Colossus for sure. Just for the fact that it's so simple, yet does give off alot of emotion. Especialy right before the last colossus (Don't want to spoil anything)
    * Help a CA artist! Visit the Constructive Critique section! *



  17. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by darth massacre
    Halflife 2 was overhyped. In fact I was disappointed when compared to the "smash in the face" I got when I played the first one. I had the original Halflife on my HDD for 3 years. I had Halflife2 on my HDD for 3 months.
    Huh, I was actually blown away by it, the enviroments just amazed me and I found myslef visably shaking after some of the more intense segements. Not many games have that effect on me, but to each his own I suppose.

  18. #17
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    I think half-life was a landmark in the way that it took games back to the direcness it used to have, in an age where games are being evaluated more and more as movies. I still remember the old days when i used to play Sonic on my master system and the game really grabbed you. Looking back on it now, it might've been because there were no cutscenes, no CG, no lil text explainaing what the story was all about. From start to finish you were sonic. And that was pretty much all there was to it.

    I'm not saying cutscenes are a bad thing, but it's something that has been over relied upon. And now it's a mold that makes people think of games as a collection of graphics, music, concept art, story, whatever. All the while making you lose sight of the game itself.

    Seriously, one of the reasons i say i hate art is this very problem. People enclose themselves in these molds, making up categories, saying "this is", "this isn't". They make up theories, stupid definitions, then entangle and complicate everything until it seems complex enough to force onto the minds of others and be accepted for no good reason. All trying to define something that at most should be as simple as wether is it a good thing or not. It's tyring, it's time consuming and futile, and the fact that in order to learn how to draw or paint or sculpt better you have to go through this while having to pay for it is downright outrageous. And what's worst of all, the people have been forgotten in all this. These days, art is a self-serving monster. Hardly any art teacher today thinks of making art so the common man can appreciate it and somehow better himself. It's all about self praise and big halls where people of the same trade spit jargon they barely understand themselves so they'll look distinguished.

    Sure, i normally say "art", but it's a working title at the most.

    edit: i guess that was a rant. sorry about that.

  19. #18
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    Think of it how Lichtenstein's work was the reflection of pop cultural during his time. Could'nt a video game do the same thing? Think of how much a game like Grand Theft Auto:Vice City represents todays popular culture: Controversial, Sex, Drugs, Violence, Retro, Pop, rock'n'roll. Down to each radio station and sterotypical character - it reflects everything of the times. Then think of all the media coverage it got, the hype and the actual amount of people who can identify with it in some form or another.

    Its not artistically crafted, neither is its purpose to be art. But neither were the comic books that Lichtenstein worked from, but his work is to be considered by most as art. Same princple can be applied to Video Games.

    edit: I missed your post K-17. You posted whilst I was typing. Don't want to seem like that was directed at you

    These days, art is a self-serving monster. Hardly any art teacher today thinks of making art so the common man can appreciate it and somehow better himself.
    so fucking true .
    Last edited by flatliner; January 23rd, 2006 at 09:30 PM.
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  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oregano
    A game, as a whole (looking at all of it's componants together) is not art. It is an interactive transient experience, with little to no reflective qualities (an intrinsic ingredient to art).

    However, the individual aspects of a game (concept illustrations, musical scores, etc.) are or can be considered art.

    ~Oreg.
    I agree... I don't consider videogames as art but rather is composed of art...

    Roger Ebert got tons of angry letters from gamers as well when he said videogames aren't art... There's a lengthy thread in RottenTomatoes as well about it...
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    Interesting article.

    my own two little cents are that video games could be art, could be not. Thats kind of irrelevant in my eyes, since art, as a universally defined word, is somewhat meaningless. Everybody has their own things they consider to be "art." I do however feel that video games are a very powerful and at the same time, very squandered meduim of communication and interaction.

    As a whole, its pretty bottom of the barrel as far as entertainment media goes. Maybe a step or two above television.

    Not to say that it isn't really really fun, just that its still very much in it's infancy. Still immersed in explosions, tits, dragons, ninjas and spaceships.

    Its getting better, but theres still a loooong way to go before the video game industry has itself an Apocalypse Now, 2001, or Godfather. It probably doesnt help it has a tendency to feast off the table scraps (and i mean in a very direct way) of other entertainment mediums.

    just as an example, for one of the most succesful games out now:
    Ringworld:
    Kojima- "Games Are Not Art"

    Halo:
    Kojima- "Games Are Not Art"

    i think it'll get there, but games need time to grow, and expand themselves.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by invinciblewombat
    Huh, I was actually blown away by it, the enviroments just amazed me and I found myslef visably shaking after some of the more intense segements. Not many games have that effect on me, but to each his own I suppose.
    Whoa, dude...I didn't say it was bad. It just didn't feel as revolutionary as when the original came out. It was more of the same with better graphics and physics system. Visually it was one of the sweetest things on the PC. And it didn't even need as much horsepower as F.E.A.R. or FarCry to look good. Then when it came to the game itself, I didn't know what the hell was going on. It was more of the same. Many parts didn't make sense and I couldn't really figure out what Freeman was running from. And I thought I played the original Halflife, OpFor and Blue Shift at least 3 times each!!

    Anyway. Going off topic....sorry.
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  23. #22
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    Games are definitely art to me. But since nobody can agree on a definition for art, it's not an argument that will be decided anytime soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oregano
    A game, as a whole (looking at all of it's componants together) is not art. It is an interactive transient experience, with little to no reflective qualities (an intrinsic ingredient to art).
    Do you think the lack of this element is something that can't be done in games, or simply hasn't been done in games? I'm not entirely clear on what you mean by reflective qualities.



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