Question about the masters (as in painters)

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    Question about the masters (as in painters)

    I've been wondering about this latley, will the art world ever see people again as skillfull as William Bouguereau, amongst others.
    The way he mastered anatomy and painting is breathtaking, and I don't know anyone today that is able to do what he did a hundred years ago.

    My point is that shouldn't we have at least one artist being able to do what Bouguereau did in the 19:th century?

    If there are people like that living today, please share them folks!

    What do you think?

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    I'd like to at least try to attain that kind of technica mastery, I'm at the stage where seeing great works like his just not only blow me away, but showing me that there is no upper ceiling but for what you want to make of yourself.

    There was a time when such work would make me hang my head in disgust and not want to pursue art anymore.

    Btw I'm sure there are some who are technical virtuosos who can also command the heart as much as the eyes in the classical manner, just that none come to me right now.

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    you're looking at him.

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    hard to do when the modern era ignored master to apprentice teachings for three generations...much of that knowledge is lost to us.

    there are a few doing great work...steven assael is still young and will be doing masterful works for years...nelson shanks is a helluva painter but doesnt have much online...daniel green...there are a number who will push fairly close...assaels best work i have seen in person is as inspiring as a number of the bouguereaus i have seen. not all the masters works were great...it is their greatest works which will be hard to achieve or surpass.

    we shall see....

    one of the artists on the site ...douglas flynt...a young guy...his still life work in person is as strong as any i have seen from art history. i can only imagine what that stuff will look like when he peaks in his sixties or seventies.

    there is hope for that kind of work....but for every great one there are a thousand mediocre floral and figure painters who make me sick.

    pretty much after klimt there is a loss of info in euro painting...it meandered over to the soviets who did fantastic stuff...and now that school of thought resides in china. I will bet that most of the traditional masters of the early 21st century will come from china as those teachings are still considered important there.

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    not to be a fan boy but carl dobsky's work is just as impressive. There are a few figure studies of his that are just ubelieveable.

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    http://www.sergiosanchezart.com/

    my instructor at the Los Angeles Academy of Figurative Arts. He's only in his 20's, and he's self-taught. Never attended art school.

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    There are some great artists out there now but it is harder to find them. It may just be me but I think the amount of time artists have to work now hampers there technical abilities abit. The "Masters" worked for along time on their commisions from what I can tell, so had more time to perfect each piece. I also agree with Mr. Manley on the lack of apprenticeship style training. I know I learn so much more from someone who is teaching just me rather than 20 students at a time.

    Some people I consider modern "Masters" would include:

    Justin Sweet - I have never seen a piece by him that hasn't awed me in some way.

    Iain McCaig - Not only the nicest (and most positive) person I have ever met, but his sketches are just beautiful.

    Paul Bonner - This guy never ceases to amaze me. Especially when I found out his paintings are watercolors.

    John Jude Palencar - A worthy succesor to Adrew Wyeth.

    Gary Gianni - His style reminds me of NC Wyeth's work.

    Donato Giancola - I really love his paintings in Spectrum 12. Reminds me of Waterhouse's work.

    Alan Lee - What else can I say other than it's Alan Lee?

    John Howe - I've always liked his Tolkien work the best, he has an amazing sense for greating paintings that feel epic.

    I could go on & on, but you get the idea. The "Masters" are only Masters because you connect to there work. I personally can't stand Picasso's work, does that mean he was not talented? No it just means his artwork does not invoke the same feelings I get from a Bouguereau.

    I believe we are already seeing artists of "Masters" quality, but because the world is so global now, they don't cause as much sensation as the Big Guys did back in their day. They won't be recognized as the masters they are until years from now.

    Does that make sense? Not sure I made my point accurately...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Profil
    My point is that shouldn't we have at least one artist being able to do what Bouguereau did in the 19:th century?
    No.
    Because it's not the 19th century.


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    alex ross is pretty goddamn close

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    I think the closest example would be CA's very own Mentler.
    /edit: oh wait, painters! I've never seen any of Mentler's paintings. But as far as figure studies and such go.. he is a king.

    Last edited by Interceptor; December 31st, 2005 at 12:37 PM.
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    how about richard schmid I think he's a master

    joemadfan.com I run this site

    nathensprings.net coming soon!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blahm
    alex ross is pretty goddamn close
    hahahahahahahah!


    nope!

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    Go back to the previous centuries, there are much better artists.

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    As far as master's go, while it is a subjective term, I can only think of a few. Like Jason said, Steven Assael's work is amazing in person, and he's not that old yet so he has plenty of time to outdo his already great work. And his teacher David Leffel, his work in person is some of the most amazing stuff I ever seen. I see Leffel and Rembrandt as equals, he stuff is that good.
    And Schmid I think is right up there. But Alex Ross? wtf, are you kidding?

    @Parker D- Sergios drawings are good, but his paintings are pretty damn all over the place.

    -tiny

    edit: this is like the first time I've posted in fuckin' ages. Freakin' wierd.

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    Alex Ross... I like Alex Ross, BUT, in the grand scale of painters I don't think he's one of the best at all. I think it's really his subject matter that brings alot of admiration by his fans. Like I said, he is a skilled man, he is not a terrible artist by any means.

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    "And his teacher David Leffel, his work in person is some of the most amazing stuff I ever seen. I see Leffel and Rembrandt as equals, he stuff is that good"

    leffel was steve's teacher? that's news to me. and no leffel is not rembrandt good. and i'm a fan of leffel too. alot of you guys are compairing apples to starships. if we compaired creative minds, maybe some of those masters from the past if they lived today might be movie directors or special effects guys. hell, in terms of creative minds, i'll but kubrick with any of those old masters. but it's still a silly comparison. like compairing jim thorpe to jim brown to reggie bush.


    Question about the masters (as in painters) and rex banner says, he would laugh but you guys know what a laugh sounds like. ****end run-on sentence***

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    bouguereau's paintings are far too saccharine for today's taste. and familarity breeds contempt...the world has seen so much high realism that it's less interested than it used to be.

    tastes change and 100 years from now it'll be very different. i don't know what that difference will be, maybe realism will still be less fashionable maybe we'll have rejected abstract art, who knows. guido reni went completely out to fashion and knowledge and now is seen as one of the great baroque painters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrr
    "And his teacher David Leffel, his work in person is some of the most amazing stuff I ever seen. I see Leffel and Rembrandt as equals, he stuff is that good"

    leffel was steve's teacher? that's news to me. and no leffel is not rembrandt good. and i'm a fan of leffel too. alot of you guys are compairing apples to starships. if we compaired creative minds, maybe some of those masters from the past if they lived today might be movie directors or special effects guys. hell, in terms of creative minds, i'll but kubrick with any of those old masters. but it's still a silly comparison. like compairing jim thorpe to jim brown to reggie bush.

    I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure Assael studied with him for awhile, it would make sense considered both of their painting styles. As far as comparing "creativity" well that's a matter of opinion. I'm talking about execution. To that extent, yes I think Leffel is as good as rembrandt. In the regards that Leffel doesn't do story-telling, historical pieces, maybe he's not as good in that regard. But still-lifes and portraits, I'd say yeah. I dunno. agree to disagree..

    -tiny

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    I'm talking about execution. To that extent, yes I think Leffel is as good as rembrandt.
    You need to see more Rembrandts in person. And more Leffels.
    I'm not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure Assael studied with him for awhile, it would make sense considered both of their painting styles.
    No, and no.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell
    You need to see more Rembrandts in person. And more Leffels.

    No, and no.

    I couldnt agree more. The best rembrandts can make me tear up in awe. if you let your eyes relax..just for a moment, those people have SOULS...staring right into you...it made me feel like i felt like what rembrandt felt in order to communicate that subtle thing...the life in the painting. leffel does not have that...though i do respect his work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRØW
    There are some great artists out there now but it is harder to find them. It may just be me but I think the amount of time artists have to work now hampers there technical abilities abit. The "Masters" worked for along time on their commisions from what I can tell, so had more time to perfect each piece. I also agree with Mr. Manley on the lack of apprenticeship style training. I know I learn so much more from someone who is teaching just me rather than 20 students at a time.

    Some people I consider modern "Masters" would include:

    Justin Sweet - I have never seen a piece by him that hasn't awed me in some way.

    Iain McCaig - Not only the nicest (and most positive) person I have ever met, but his sketches are just beautiful.

    Paul Bonner - This guy never ceases to amaze me. Especially when I found out his paintings are watercolors.

    John Jude Palencar - A worthy succesor to Adrew Wyeth.

    Gary Gianni - His style reminds me of NC Wyeth's work.

    Donato Giancola - I really love his paintings in Spectrum 12. Reminds me of Waterhouse's work.

    Alan Lee - What else can I say other than it's Alan Lee?

    John Howe - I've always liked his Tolkien work the best, he has an amazing sense for greating paintings that feel epic.

    I could go on & on, but you get the idea. The "Masters" are only Masters because you connect to there work. I personally can't stand Picasso's work, does that mean he was not talented? No it just means his artwork does not invoke the same feelings I get from a Bouguereau.

    I believe we are already seeing artists of "Masters" quality, but because the world is so global now, they don't cause as much sensation as the Big Guys did back in their day. They won't be recognized as the masters they are until years from now.

    Does that make sense? Not sure I made my point accurately...

    as far as the comment about having less time nowadays. bouguereau could do a life sized figure, fully fleshed out in a painting with background in less than a week. so there goes that theory...right out the window. he died the most prolific painter of all time as well as the richest.



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    Less then a week? Damn.
    How come the old techniques dissapeared from Europe?
    Oh, did Bouguereau have any students? and if he did, what was their names?

    Edit: If you like me, haven't seen David Leffel's work, here's one painting of his:
    http://www.oilpaintersofamerica.com/...effel-Img1.htm

    Edit: People like Bouguereau and Tadema painted beautiful faces and figures, I'm wondering if they did fast studies like some artists do and then painted the figures from the studies, or did it come from their knowledge of the human anatomy?

    Last edited by Profil; December 31st, 2005 at 03:40 PM.
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    I wouldn't say that Bougereau was the hands-down #1 realist of all time, and I definitely wouldn't say that most modern artists mentioned compare to the stuff of Rembrandt and Bougereau. To me, Vermeer made the most perfect paintings I've seen, and they're basically worthless as reproductions. As to modern painters, I can only say that I enjoy Andrew Wyeth and John Jude Palencar, but only the original paintings, and at that only a select few. I can't comment on others because I haven't seen anything recent that floored me like they did.

    As to the deadlines and money thing, it's hogwash to say that no modern artist can afford the time to make masterpieces. The days of Norman Rockwell magazine covers are over, but that doesn't affect a fine artist who fetches $50,000 or more for a painting. Besides, I believe that a master could make a better piece in a single day than a mediocre artist could in a year. It's skill and devotion, not just labor.

    Besides, I hold J.C. Leyendecker, Rockwell, and Sargent in similar regard to Bougereau. Quality doesn't just mean rendering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Profil
    Less then a week? Damn.
    How come the old techniques dissapeared from Europe?
    Oh, did Bouguereau have any students? and if he did, what was their names?
    J.C. Leyendecker! There was a teacher at the art students' League who said there were only 2 artists who drew good hands: Michelangelo and J.C. Leyendecker.

    And if you didn't go to an art school, you probably never heard of him. How depressing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ParkerD
    Has anyone else noticed that the old masters rarely got laid?
    Are you high?
    And what do you mean "we know about that" re: Michelangelo? Gay sex doesn't count? And even if you think Michelangelo was too repressed and Leonardo too sublimated to actually do anything (a la Sargent), Caravaggio had enough hot man-on-man action to make up for all of them.

    Edit: Curse you and you post deletion! Thought better of it did you? But I'd already quoted, so there!


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    the reason why High realism isn't popular anymore among the masses, is because of Photography. People still want to see realism but now it's just in a different medium.
    It is sorta sad I feel because Realistic paintings are so much more human then Photography. A lot of people I feel have bad taste or care about what makes more money faster.
    That is why I appreciate Forums and communities like these because we can talk about what we love.
    I think Daniel Greene has beautiful work, but I have to say I'm a sucker for the Brandywine artists, and many many others, it's a big list,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell
    Are you high?
    And what do you mean "we know about that" re: Michelangelo? Gay sex doesn't count? And even if you think Michelangelo was too repressed and Leonardo too sublimated to actually do anything (a la Sargent), Caravaggio had enough hot man-on-man action to make up for all of them.

    Edit: Curse you and you post deletion! Thought better of it did you? But I'd already quoted, so there!
    ah dang it. someone caught me I've been trying to practice censoring my more questionable posts and slowly diminish the bad reputation I"ve made for myself here...



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    Carravagio stabbed a man over a tennis match. That dude was hardcore.

    Paul Rhye
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    Well I did say they spent longer as far as I could tell, but apparently I am mistaken!

    Oh well my main point was that...
    A. The people we consider "Masters" may not have been consider that in there own time as much as they are consider that in our time. (though once again I may be wrong and I know that doesn't apply to all of them) &
    B. That there may well be people working today that will be considered "Masters" sometime in the future. (I know, mere speculation, but still...) &
    C. That it is harder for someone to gain the reputation of "Master" nowadays do partly to the artworld being wider than the continent of europe now, and that people don't have the same regard for art that they once did. It's more about "pretty pictures to match my furniture" than art meant to inspire us.

    Of course I maybe entirely wrong. As for me though, I know I'm definately going to try to avoid pissing off Carravagio when I get to heaven... ;P

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