Shades of Jurrasic Park

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    Wasp Shades of Jurrasic Park


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    tantalizing. I wonder if I'll be alive to see it.

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    The whole genome in one year... that's pretty cool. Of course, pooping one of those bad boys out is where the pole gets really greasy. You'd most likely have to use an elephant as a surragat and with the number of tries they had for a sheep (I understand it gets more difficult the larger the animal), I'm thinking it might be prohibitively difficult.

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    This science tends to scare me a bit. Scientist have already proven that they can screw up ecosystems by adding non indigenous animals to biomes or by removing important ones from others. What will happen when they start introducing extinct animals back into these environments. This can't end well...not that I am a pessimist, mind you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hylandr2
    This science tends to scare me a bit. Scientist have already proven that they can screw up ecosystems by adding non indigenous animals to biomes or by removing important ones from others. What will happen when they start introducing extinct animals back into these environments. This can't end well...not that I am a pessimist, mind you.
    What's more, you have to wonder how long they expect it to live. Ecologically, a lot can change in 10,000 years not only in the animal kingdom but on the microscopic level. If it is successfully recreated, it would not have the immunities to what are now common bacterias and molds that may not have existed in the same abundance back then as they do now, or perhaps not at all. That's what makes jurassic park so unfeasible. You can't just bipass all those years of crucial adaptation and still expect to survive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exo
    What's more, you have to wonder how long they expect it to live. Ecologically, a lot can change in 10,000 years not only in the animal kingdom but on the microscopic level. If it is successfully recreated, it would not have the immunities to what are now common bacterias and molds that may not have existed in the same abundance back then as they do now, or perhaps not at all. That's what makes jurassic park so unfeasible. You can't just bipass all those years of crucial adaptation and still expect to survive.
    Thing is though, if they breed them through contemporary elephants won't the mamouths have most, or atleast some of the resistance that their step-in parents do?

    ras

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    Cool. Thanks Oreg for the link it's awesome! You know what would be even cooler? Restoring say a Cro-Magnon or Homo Habilis to life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hylandr2
    This science tends to scare me a bit. Scientist have already proven that they can screw up ecosystems by adding non indigenous animals to biomes or by removing important ones from others.
    To be fair, it's generally not scientists doing this. Usually it is tourists who while on their travels notice an animal or garden plant that they wanted to bring home. Or it may be someone trading in the illegal animal trade who introduces a foreign animal or plant through the black market. Once this organism is in a new environment, it may find itself in a situation where there are no natural predators to keep it in check and it will spread and displace indegenous animals or plants. The former method is how Austrailia ended up with an infestation of rabbits and the southern US ended up with more Kudzu than they can deal with. The latter situation is how we in the Northeast U.S. ended up with the Monk Parakeet, a South American native. The local power companies have been under fire in the press when they have to clear a monk parakeet nest away from power & telephone utility boxes and then have the birds euthanized. We have these problems now because the birds were illegally introduced. Most foreign flora & fauna is thighly controlled these days and it isn't easy to bring non-indegenous species into most countries.

    Usually biologists and other scientists are the ones that have to come up with a solution when these introduced species get out of hand.

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    Science is cool.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Elwell
    Science is cool.
    I agree 8)

    Speaking of which (adorns flame proof suit): http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/20/in...ign/index.html


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    Yup, just heard that. Sometimes judges are cool, too.


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    Quote Originally Posted by figure2
    To be fair, it's generally not scientists doing this. Usually it is tourists who while on their travels notice an animal or garden plant that they wanted to bring home. Or it may be someone trading in the illegal animal trade who introduces a foreign animal or plant through the black market. Once this organism is in a new environment, it may find itself in a situation where there are no natural predators to keep it in check and it will spread and displace indegenous animals or plants. The former method is how Austrailia ended up with an infestation of rabbits and the southern US ended up with more Kudzu than they can deal with. The latter situation is how we in the Northeast U.S. ended up with the Monk Parakeet, a South American native. The local power companies have been under fire in the press when they have to clear a monk parakeet nest away from power & telephone utility boxes and then have the birds euthanized. We have these problems now because the birds were illegally introduced. Most foreign flora & fauna is thighly controlled these days and it isn't easy to bring non-indegenous species into most countries.

    Usually biologists and other scientists are the ones that have to come up with a solution when these introduced species get out of hand.
    Understood. I am thinking more along the lines of the introduced species that I am familiar with. In the Northeast of the US, government (presumably based on scientist recommendations) introduced gypsy moth catapillars to help fight some pest (can't remember which one) and now the gypsy moths are uncheck and destoy flora all over the place. The wolves in the Southwest were allowed to be hunted to near extinction, leaving the elk to grow unchecked destroy vast expanses of the vegatation that they feed on. Then in Hawaii, they imported mongooses to help resolve the rat problem. Rats are nocturnal and mongooses are diurnal, so now they have a rat and a mongoose problem. Man messes with nature even though they don't fully understand the interlocking intricacies of how it works.

    Bring 'em on though. I'm sure my township will charge me to license 'em....Mammoths running all over. I thought I had a stray cat problem. Yeesh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hylandr2
    Understood. I am thinking more along the lines of the introduced species that I am familiar with. In the Northeast of the US, government (presumably based on scientist recommendations) introduced gypsy moth catapillars to help fight some pest (can't remember which one) and now the gypsy moths are uncheck and destoy flora all over the place. The wolves in the Southwest were allowed to be hunted to near extinction, leaving the elk to grow unchecked destroy vast expanses of the vegatation that they feed on. Then in Hawaii, they imported mongooses to help resolve the rat problem. Rats are nocturnal and mongooses are diurnal, so now they have a rat and a mongoose problem. Man messes with nature even though they don't fully understand the interlocking intricacies of how it works.
    Actually the Gypsy moths, also known as tent caterpillars were introduced to the Northeast in the latter part of the 19th century before science fully knew the consequences of introducing foreign species. The purpose of the introduction was to breed an American silkworm that would produce a sturdier silk fiber. The introduction was accidental because some of the caterpillars escaped into the wild from the laboratory where they were being bred.

    The wolves in the southwest were not eradicated due to any scientific effort but rather than farmers wanting to protect their livestock and communities concerned about their safety.

    As far as the mongooses are concerned, I have to agree, that was a huge blunder.

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    It may sound interesting in theory, but the novelty will wear off when this scientist dude unleashes his hyper-intelligent Woolly Mammoth army on an unsuspecting populace in a bid for world domination. That'll end your precious field trip.

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    Don't mongeese eat dem dirty serpents?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaPalida
    You know what would be even cooler? Restoring say a Cro-Magnon or Homo Habilis to life.
    Oh man, imagine that! Caveman butlers!



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    Hylandr has seen Jurrasic Park too many times. No need to take an alarmist position on it. Save it for the luddites. Science is not our enemy. I'm all for cloning that sucker. If scientists can figure out how to do that, imagine how they can cure pandemics and re-grow brain cells, skin cells, and damaged organs!

    0Kelvin... lol! yeah, just like that geico commerical of the cavemen who get taken out to a restraunt by Geico when the guy said, "So easy a caveman can do it." Caveman #1: "Ill have the duck soup." Caveman #2: "I've lost my appetite."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oregano
    I agree 8)

    Speaking of which (adorns flame proof suit): http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/20/in...ign/index.html
    Hehe. I was avidly following this case, reading the transcripts every day, etc.
    The judge's 139 page ruling was crushing, absolutely crushing to the ID side.
    It was fantastic.

    emily

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    Quote Originally Posted by ParkerD
    Hylandr has seen Jurrasic Park too many times. No need to take an alarmist position on it. Save it for the luddites. Science is not our enemy. I'm all for cloning that sucker. If scientists can figure out how to do that, imagine how they can cure pandemics and re-grow brain cells, skin cells, and damaged organs!

    0Kelvin... lol! yeah, just like that geico commerical of the cavemen who get taken out to a restraunt by Geico when the guy said, "So easy a caveman can do it." Caveman #1: "Ill have the duck soup." Caveman #2: "I've lost my appetite."
    You have to admit that Jurassic Park sounds great in surround sound. It always bothered me that many of the dinosaurs weren't from the Jurassic era.
    BTW, how are them there mongooses doing out there... LOL

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    There's also been a lot of chameleons breeding in Hawaii that were released from a pet store owner there. What I don't understand is that it's illegal to catch them or get rid of 'em. (thought it'd be relative since chameleons are really just nature's little dinosaurs heh)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oregano
    Speaking of which (adorns flame proof suit): http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/20/in...ign/index.html
    Hey! I protest!! We need a separate thread!!!



    Is this the same McMaster University in Hamilton Ontario?



    Anyway, I honestly don't doubt the ability or technology to ressurrect an extinct creature from a complete string of DNA. All we need is a surrogate mother and viola! What I doubt is the reasons for doing so. Is it a politically motivated scientific experiment? Or is it profit motivated? Maybe just to prove a point. And what of the animal after it has been ressurrected? Will it become a freak show exhibit? Can it fit in with our current climate? Where will the money to take care of its special needs come from? Can we eat it? And so on and so on......forget that I asked if we could eat it.....


    Its quite a dilemma here. If we don't try to raise the mammoth, we fail science. But if we raise it before answering some of the questions, then we fail humanity.

    Of course that's the worst case scenario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emily g
    Hehe. I was avidly following this case, reading the transcripts every day, etc.
    The judge's 139 page ruling was crushing, absolutely crushing to the ID side.
    It was fantastic.

    emily
    I didn't follow it quite as closely, but would have liked to have.

    On a related note (ID & Genetics & extinct animals) I just recieved my National Geographic yesterday (*THE* best magazine in the world, btw). Their Geographic spot focuses on the mass extinction of frogs that is currently taking place. Their pull quote is "The last time we saw such a categorical loss was with the dinosaurs. And no one can say that didn't change the planet." - Joe Mendelson, Zoo Atlanta.

    If you don't have a subscription to NG, you'll be able to pick this issue up in about a month. I always recomend it.

    ~Oreg.


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    I can't remember if it was NatGeo that ran this newsstub a few months back. But I remember reading about it. The first sign of an ecological system breakdown happens with the mass extinction of the creatures we do not see. If the frogs are getting noticed, just imagine the other tiny creatures on the lower end of the food chain missing but gone unseen.

    Thanks for the heads up Oreg...I'll be sure to pick a copy up when I go shopping next week.

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    Thought this would be of interest in this discussion

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